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nitrogen based plant food
    #7230939 -

would this all purpose plant food work good in substrate?

it's got:
Nitrogen
Phosphates
Potash
Copper
Iron
Molybdenum
and zinc

it's a water soluble, so i could just keep using it every few weeks. am i right?


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"War doesn't determine who's right, only who's left."

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Re: nitrogen based plant food [Re: flamingcap]
    #7230951 -

Don't use it, because it will be pick up by the mushrooms.Only use stuff thats Organic(from nature) !


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:Awesketch:

:cool: Fair is Fair :devil:

Edited by Brainiac (07/27/07 03:43 PM)

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Re: nitrogen based plant food [Re: Brainiac]
    #7232428 -

The big problem with synthetic fertilizers is that they leave a lot of salts in the soil. Out in garden beds, this isn't such a big deal but if you looked at the directions closely they'd still have a bit about how infrequently and sparingly they should be used with food crops.


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:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
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figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.

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Re: nitrogen based plant food [Re: mycocurious]
    #7232550 -

Fungi aren't plants and you shouldn't use plant fertilizer for fungi.There are plenty of additives that are safe for fungi that help yield,growth,overall nutrition etc.


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"Anything i say is fictional"
  what you should look for in manure

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Re: nitrogen based plant food [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #7232931 -

xaxphaanes said:
Fungi aren't plants and you shouldn't use plant fertilizer for fungi.There are plenty of additives that are safe for fungi that help yield,growth,overall nutrition etc.


:thumbup:

Mushrooms EAT their food, not drink it from blue water.  Fungi is much more closely related to mammals than plants(fact).  You wouldn't put miracle gro into your kids baby bottle would you?
RR


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Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Re: nitrogen based plant food [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7233030 -

Quote:
RogerRabbit said:You wouldn't put miracle gro into your kids baby bottle would you?
RR


If he doesn't shut up...
:calledajoke:


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:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.

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Re: nitrogen based plant food [Re: mycocurious]
    #7233320 -

You can add it to the substrate, but it will need to be composted down first. I'd skip it if you aren't familiar with the proper composting technique.

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Re: nitrogen based plant food [Re: Hotnuts]
    #7233340 -

metals dont compost


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: nitrogen based plant food [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #7233538 -

That's true, but the total amount of available metals in synthetic fertilizers are next to nothing. Organic fertilizers are definitely better suited for composting.

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Re: nitrogen based plant food [Re: Hotnuts]
    #7233580 -

that may be because organic ferts are plant fiber in various states (including as
animal waste) while chemical fertilizers are often extracts of these plants and
even manufacturing wastes. with composted manure, straw and such there is actualy
something of substance for mushrooms to decompose, that's what mushrooms need to thrive.

how well would you do on vitamin pills and lettuce


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California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Re: nitrogen based plant food [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #7234348 -

Quote:
Mushrooms EAT their food, not drink it from blue water. Fungi is much more closely related to mammals than plants(fact). You wouldn't put miracle gro into your kids baby bottle would you?
RR


Uh, I don't think anyone was suggesting this would be a sole source of sustenance for the shrooms. They've suggested it would make a good additive. Just as chicken shit is used to increase nitrogen levels, and just as mineral supplements are sometimes added to increase mineral levels, this could be used in their stead.

Quote:
how well would you do on vitamin pills and lettuce


Vitamin pills and lettuce would be a fine additive to any diet, though. I don't think anyone has been stupid enough to suggest plant food as a sole substrate.

I have failed to see any intelligent reason plant fertilizer shouldn't be used as a small-quantity additive to deliver additional minerals and other nutrients. "It's not from NATURE" is a completely nonsensical argument unless you provide some conclusive reason these substances, as extracted from other sources, are truly different than they would be in their natural state. Mycocurious, if correct, has given the only good reason that this plant food would not be a worthwhile additive.

Way to be scientists, folks. Way not to fall into magical thinking. Just because something has a stamp on it saying "organic" doesn't make it better or worse for your grow, whether you're cultivating roses or shitakes. It's all about the actual balance of ingredients.

I'm not coming out on this either way because I don't know for sure whether it's useful. There's a good chance the balance of ingredients isn't appropriate to mushrooms. But that has absolutely nothing to do with it being an extract-based ("synthetic") fertilizer.

Edited by figgusfiddus (07/28/07 04:59 PM)

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Re: nitrogen based plant food [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7234362 -

Don't you think that if plant fertilizer worked for fungi that the mushroom industry would be using it by now?


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"Anything i say is fictional"
  what you should look for in manure

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Re: nitrogen based plant food [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #7234372 -

I'm not backing it, because I don't know if it works. I'm saying, "If I'm going to believe for sure that it doesn't work, I'd like a believable reason why this is so." Now, Mycocurious and Hotnuts might've just given me one. The rest of the thread is absolutely brimming with made-up bullshit answers, though. The fact is, fertilizers ARE used for fungi... chicken shit, horse shit, all sorts of composted, natural fertilizers. Now, what makes these different from the synthetics? Mycocurious seems to have given us the answer to that, and it has nothing to do with "Oh man, precious Mother Earth didn't make it, so don't put it into your little friends!" The fact that this fertilizer is synthetic is not what seems to make it inappropriate for mushrooms, and there's no reason to propagate the lie that it is.

Quote:
Don't you think that if plant fertilizer worked for fungi that the mushroom industry would be using it by now?


If everyone followed your line of reasoning all the time, no one would ever accomplish anything. It's the kind of statement people make to avoid thinking something through and learning about it.


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Re: nitrogen based plant food [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7234407 -

haha so you don't think that the multi-billion dollar mushroom industry doesn't have scientists to research this?.Come on i will talk to my boss tomorrow (which is a mycologist) and see what he says on the subject.


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"Anything i say is fictional"
  what you should look for in manure

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Re: nitrogen based plant food [Re: xaxphaanes] * 1
    #7234425 -

That's not what I said. Again, think it through.

I didn't say, "Those professionals don't know what they're doing." I said, "That's not WHY it's wrong." If you want to learn about the process, you learn why something works or why it doesn't--otherwise you don't know jack about the process.

If someone asks "Can I put canned tomatoes in my casing layer to improve potency?" and your response is, "No, because they come from Communist China," you're both completely wrong. Now yes, you did at least say "No," in response, but if you don't know why it's wrong, you aren't going to be correct with any future consistency.

Mycocurious and Hotnuts were at least discussing the actual content of the fertilizer formula, so props to them.


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FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
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Edited by figgusfiddus (07/28/07 05:28 PM)

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Re: nitrogen based plant food [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7234437 -

We tend to use what the mushroom industry uses since it is proven to work they do not use plant food so why would we use it?.Point being they have probably researched deeply into the subject spending hundreds of thousands of dollars and they found it not to be suitable but if you want an exact reason i should have one for you tomorrow with chemistry to back it up.


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"Anything i say is fictional"
  what you should look for in manure

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Re: nitrogen based plant food [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7234452 -

Mushrooms extract carbs and proteins from the food source in order to grow.

Once again, the plant fertilizer along with some of the other composting ingredients will have to be broken down in a composting process so they're converted into a usable protein or carbohydrate source for the mushrooms to eat.

In other words, chemical plant fertilizers will not supply any usable nutrition for a mushroom to thrive on. Very little nutrition if it were to. It would have to be broken down in the composting process.

Edited by Hotnuts (07/28/07 05:40 PM)

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Re: nitrogen based plant food [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #7234456 -

Go for it. I suspect, as stated above, that it has to do with a high concentration of salts not found in solid fertilizers, which is pretty good to know.

All I said to start with is that it has nothing to do with it being organic or synthetic--it's the formula that's the problem. This means that there may very well be liquid fertilizers out there that make appropriate additives.

There are always going to be distinct differences between the techniques used by large-scale growers and the home enthusiast. It's not unreasonable to believe you can improve upon a home-based method, even though a commercial grower does not use the same improvement.


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FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS

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Re: nitrogen based plant food [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7234464 -

Quote:
Mushrooms extract carbs and proteins from the food source in order to grow.

Once again, the plant fertilizer along with some of the other composting ingredients will have to be broken down in a composting process so they're converted into a usable protein or carbohydrate source for the mushrooms to eat.

In other words, chemical plant fertilizers will not supply any usable nutrition for a mushroom to thrive on. Very little nutrition if it were to.



Mushrooms extract proteins and carbs from their substrate--they also extract certain minerals and nutrients (like N2) from it. A liquid fertilizer is not meant to add carbohydrates or proteins, but rather the substances mushrooms (yes, like plants) crave in relatively small quantities, to promote overall nutrition. Nitrogen and minerals, in other words, are added through the fertilizer.

Certain chemical fertilizers, if appropriately balanced, could take the place of things like chicken shit, blood meal, et cetera. Not everyone uses these because they aren't absolutely necessary; I get that, but some people still do swear by them, and there may be a cheaper, more effective alternative. Or there may not be. But you can't find out if you don't ask.

A fertilizer. Is not. A substrate. Nor is it meant to be. I'm not sure why that has confused so many people.


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FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
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FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS

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Re: nitrogen based plant food [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7234709 -

figgusfiddus said:
If someone asks "Can I put canned tomatoes in my casing layer to improve potency?" and your response is, "No, because they come from Communist China,"


that's good enough for me


--------------------
California Has Legalized Child Prostitution

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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > Mushroom Cultivation
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