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Offlinefoghorn
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Registered: 12/14/01
Posts: 308
Last seen: 12 years, 1 month
The NRA
    #722955 - 07/04/02 07:22 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

this question is aimed mainly towards luvdem, but im sure rail and invertigo and others will share their thoughts too

your quote luvdem, "Join The National Rifle Association" - why? and do your reasons apply only to Americans, or mankind in general?

im just curious as to how the NRA appeals to Americans that support it


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Offlinestan
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Registered: 09/16/00
Posts: 99
Loc: Sydney Australia
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Re: The NRA [Re: foghorn]
    #723701 - 07/04/02 11:05 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Im a little perplexed about the whole gun issue in the US as well. In Australia there are hardly any guns which means far less armed robberies and less innocent people getting killed. Guns are a means for adults AND children to cause much destruction. If i were a US citizen I would be much happier to give up my right to bear arms if it could save one life out of the thousands of deaths attributed to guns.

But, this is just my opinion - and it comes from someone who lost a dear friend in an armed robbery in the US


--------------------
There is always a need for intoxication: China has
opium, Islam has hashish, the West has woman."
Andr? Malraux


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,778
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: The NRA [Re: stan]
    #724009 - 07/05/02 02:12 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

In Australia there are hardly any guns which means far less armed robberies and less innocent people getting killed.




Actually, the violent crime rate in both Austrailia and England has shot up since private ownership of guns was legislated against.

In a state such as Florida, when carry permits were made "must issue", the violent crime rate has plumeted. This pattern has been seen repeatedly as more states go to "must issue permit" laws.

Now take Washington, D.C. as our next example. The strictest gun laws in the US but the highest murder rate. This example is also repeated in states with stricter gun laws and restrictions on concealed carry.

Are you really so naive as to believe taking guns away from people will reduce the violent crime rate. The weapon most often used in murders just happens to be the human hands. Should we ban those as well?

Far more crimes are prvented by the use or even the simple showing of a gun each year than are actually comitted with guns.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,778
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: The NRA [Re: foghorn]
    #724018 - 07/05/02 02:36 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Sorry to reply to the original post second but the opinions of the second poster called out to me.

Why the NRA? The most simple answer would have to be...there is power in numbers. One man screaming out for his rights to be protected can easily be shouted over. It's more difficult to silence millions. Do a little reading of the Federalist papers written by the founders of this nation and you'll see just how strongly they felt that gun ownership is one of our most important rights.

You rarely read about the many positive uses of firearms each year, but there are many. The NRA has programs that teach gun safety to kids (Eddie Eagle) who's main message to kids is "Don't touch, tell an adult", there are "Refuse to be a victim" seminars, competitions, trining for law enforcment, and much more.

Click on the link, check it out.

A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State,
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed."

The "Militia" of the time period when the Bill of Rights was written, was considered to be every able bodied person. Not, as many claim, the National Guard. There was no National Guard or anything remotely like it at the time so those who claim it only applies to the National Guard are being more than a little dishonest. It is a right of the people, always has been, despite the attempts to take this right away from us.

On top of all that.... guns are fun!

There are many more reasons, but I think you get the idea.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (07/05/02 02:38 AM)


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Anonymous

Re: The NRA [Re: foghorn]
    #724097 - 07/05/02 05:50 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Many people have already answered this questions numerous times throughout history. Here are their words:


"Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power."
-- Yoshimi Ishikawa, Japanese author,(LA Times 15 Oct 1992)


"If gun laws in fact worked, the sponsors of this type of legislation should have no difficulty drawing upon long lists of examples of criminal acts reduced by such legislation. That they cannot do so after a century and a half of trying -- that they must sweep under the rug the southern attempts at gun control in the 1870-1910 period, the northeastern attempts in the 1920-1939 period, the attempts at both Federal and State levels in 1965-1976 -- establishes the repeated, complete and inevitable failure of gun laws to control serious crime.
-- Senator Orrin Hatch, in a 1982 Senate Report


"The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun."
-- Patrick Henry


"Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms..."
-- Samuel Adams


"If I were to select a jack-booted group of fascists who are perhaps as large a danger to American society as I could pick today, I would pick BATF [the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms]."
-- U.S. Representative John Dingell, 1980


"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."
-- James Madison, The Federalist Papers


"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
-- Mohandas Gandhi


"False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils except destruction. The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes."
-- Cesare Beccaria, as quoted by Thomas Jefferson's Commonplace book


"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
-- Alexander Hamilton,
The Federalist Papers at 184-188


"To disarm the people is the best and most effective way to enslave them."
-- George Mason


"A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
-- US 2nd Amendment


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OfflineRonoS
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Registered: 01/26/01
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Re: The NRA [Re: ]
    #724101 - 07/05/02 06:01 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I agree with the fact that citizens have the right to bear arms...provided that you can't conceal them..ie..handguns.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,778
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: The NRA [Re: Rono]
    #724127 - 07/05/02 06:29 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

In reply to:

provided that you can't conceal them




And why is that? I've had a concealed weapons permit for years and have never felt the need to pull my weapon. Well maybe that time a pit bull latched into my arm.

You'll find in most states that those who take the time to obey the firearms laws, are those who most seldom violate firearms laws or who commit crimes in general. (Leaving drug possesion and usage laws, and obviously speed limits out of the picture)


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: The NRA [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #724152 - 07/05/02 06:56 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Why would citizen have to the need to carry a concealed weapon? I'm sure you are a very responsible gun owner, unfortunately the same can't be said for everyone...


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,778
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Re: The NRA [Re: Rono]
    #724165 - 07/05/02 07:12 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Guns are a tool. One of the reasons for concealed carry is to not disturb others who may have an dislike of guns. Another is the fact that many surveys of criminals in jail show that if they suspect the victim might have a weapon, they will seek an easier victim. By allowing concealed carry, they don't know who might be able to fight back. This is why states that allow concealed carry most often have the lowest crime rates.

Are you aware that Vermont requires no concealed carry permits? For either residents or non-residents? Which U.S. state do you suppose has the lowest violent crime rate? A hint... the name of the state is in this paragraph.

There are many reasons to carry concealed. Perhaps living in a high crime rate area? Perhaps a woman who has been raped and wants to be sure it doesn't happen again? Perhaps a victim of domestic violence whos significant other has threatened to kill them? Perhaps someone who has a business that requires handling large sums of cash?

You are right about one thing, not everyone is responsible. That's why we have jails to punish those who misuse firearms.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflineRonoS
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Re: The NRA [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #724195 - 07/05/02 07:33 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Although I still have reservations about concealed fire-arms, your post is well stated and your arguments are valid...well done.


--------------------
"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Invisiblebivalve
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Registered: 07/22/00
Posts: 3,107
Re: The NRA [Re: foghorn]
    #724291 - 07/05/02 09:35 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)



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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,778
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: The NRA [Re: bivalve]
    #724320 - 07/05/02 09:53 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Check into their facts. I'm not going o sit here and debunk them one by one. Check for yourself

Don't go to the NRA site or any other pro-gun sites, but don't go to an anti-gun site either. Try a site like the Justice Dept., or maybe the FBI's crime statistics.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Anonymous

Re: The NRA [Re: bivalve]
    #724377 - 07/05/02 10:43 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

GUN CONTROL MYTHS

Click on the hyperlinks below to read short, concise answers to these commonly heard myths about gun control.


Myth No. 1: Gun Control Saves Lives

Myth No. 2: Handguns should be illegal because studies have shown they are 43 times more likely to be used against your own family than a criminal.

Myth No. 3: The family gun is more likely to kill you or someone you know than to kill in self-defense.

Myth No. 4: 13 children a day are killed by guns.

Myth No. 5: We'd All Be Safer If There Were Fewer Guns.

Myth No. 6: Friends or relatives are the most likely killers.

Myth No. 7: We live in a civilized society--we don't need guns.

Myth No. 8: Guns should be banned because they kill thousands of people each year.

Myth No. 9: We need to do something about the increasing access to firearms.

Myth No. 10: When One Is Attacked, Passive Behavior Is the Safest Approach.

Myth No. 11: If our representatives are passing gun control laws it must be because a majority of citizens is demanding that. So, if a majority of the people decides owning a gun is no longer a right, maybe it's time to change the Constitution.

Myth No. 12: Individual citizens do not have the right to keep and bear arms because the Supreme Court has not yet ruled on the Second Amendment.

Myth No. 13: Doesn't the Second Amendment only guarantee the right of the states to maintain militias?

Myth No. 14: The Militia Mentioned in the Second Amendment Has Been Replaced by the National Guard.

Myth No. 15: This is America. The government is never going to turn into a tyranny.

Myth No. 16: If the government uses the military and police to confiscate our guns, we can't fight them and win.

Myth No. 17: The United States Has Such a High Murder Rate Because Americans Own So Many Guns.

Myth No. 18: In countries like Japan and England, where handguns are banned or heavily regulated, the murder rate is a fraction of what it is in the U.S.

Myth No. 19: Only the police are trained enough and responsible enough to carry guns.

Myth No. 20: The police do a fine job of protecting us.

Myth No. 21: Most police personnel favor gun control and they know more about crime control...

Myth No. 22: It?s too dangerous for the average citizen to try to apprehend criminals and the police are there to protect us.

Myth No. 23: Allowing people to carry concealed weapons in public will mean automobile accidents turn into shootouts.

Myth No. 24: Realistically, if you are robbed, carjacked, or attacked, you won?t have enough time to pull your gun out, anyway.

Myth No. 25: The average citizen with a gun is a bigger threat to himself and others than the criminal is.

Myth No. 26: No One Really Needs an Assault Weapon.

Myth No. 27: Innocent People Are Killed by Stray Bullets.

Myth No. 28: Guns Will Make My Kids Glorify Violence.

Myth No. 29: Guns Are Inherently Unsafe and Should Be Made to Conform to Product Liability Laws.

Myth No. 30: Guns cause so many injuries every year that cities were forced to sue gun manufacturers to get back emergency room and medical costs.

Myth No. 31: Firearms Aren't Worth It Because of the Medical Costs They Cause.

Myth No. 32: What?s wrong with limiting purchases to one gun a month? Why would you need to buy more than 12 guns a year, anyway?

Myth No. 33: What?s wrong with a short 5-day waiting period so the authorities can conduct a background check?

Myth No. 34: I?m not saying they should be banned, but what?s wrong with registering handguns?

Myth No. 35: We license cars, marriages, attorneys, doctors, dentists, even hairstylists; why not license people who want to own handguns?

Myth No. 36: There's no harm in requiring a license before a person can buy a firearm.

Myth No. 37: Handgun Control, the Violence Policy Center, and the major news media say they don't want to ban all guns, just the bad ones that criminals use. What's wrong with that?

Myth No. 38: The fact so many prominent people are against citizens owning guns must mean they're right and I'm wrong.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,778
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: The NRA [Re: ]
    #724397 - 07/05/02 10:56 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Excellent links. They have been added to my favorites list. I wish I had known of this site before now.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/05/00
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Last seen: 11 years, 3 months
Re: The NRA [Re: ]
    #724403 - 07/05/02 10:59 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

You might as well re create Waco for all the love and trust you have in ownership of guns.


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Anonymous

Re: The NRA [Re: nugsarenice]
    #724431 - 07/05/02 11:16 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

What the hell is that supposed to mean?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 33,778
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: The NRA [Re: nugsarenice]
    #724433 - 07/05/02 11:16 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Nugs you nitwit. Did you even read any of those links before making such an inane reply?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinenugsarenice
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 06/05/00
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Re: The NRA [Re: ]
    #724434 - 07/05/02 11:16 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Do you carry assualt rifles? Why not? I would.


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: The NRA [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #724436 - 07/05/02 11:17 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

no


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Offlinenugsarenice
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Re: The NRA [Re: nugsarenice]
    #724438 - 07/05/02 11:18 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I would like to see you educate the general public in such a long string of information that you obviously did'nt even write yourself, wheres the use?


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