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OfflineF1234K
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The girlfriend
    #7228769 - 07/27/07 02:06 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Shroomery, I need your help in a situation.

So I am as you may know a shroomer,acider,Eer? haha. So yes I do these drugs. I don't do them often usually only maybe 1 night of drugs a month max. She started giving me this rant about drugs (shes a sometimes drug user) and how I should stop doing them all, she is worried that E and LSD will ruin my mind for the future. I need your help in, proving her many cases etc where people function in every day life whilst still having a good time every once and awhile. I told her that if she never drank again, I would never touch drugs again. She was not happy with this :P

So if you have any stories or more FACTS cos shes that kind of girl that show the more positive side of drugs as she is very brainwashed by the media by the whole, acid flashback, long term effects of E etc. She thinks that mushrooms are a poison that will end up ruining my organs...I mean this girl needs help here.

Thanks shroomery.


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OfflineF1234K
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: F1234K]
    #7228853 - 07/27/07 02:32 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry for the DP but I just had to.

She sorta got very mad at me and her argument for loosing the argument about the dangerous of E was. "I hate talking about this shit over msn, I can never get my thoughts together"

That is a win on my part my friends :smile: anyone knows its easier to argue over the internet as you can just find articles to help you out and quote them.

I better not bring it up again tho, I want a future with her :wink:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: F1234K]
    #7228900 - 07/27/07 02:51 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

no win
the boundaries of the relationship are not clear
be very careful at this point
find out what each really wants.
discover who you are as individuals.
the relationship is private between individuals.


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OfflineSeventy
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7228915 - 07/27/07 02:54 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I'm with you on everything but the E, why do something that has the very real potential to permanently damage your body's production of serotonin? Don't get me wrong, I've done E many times, but its just like any other stimulant...


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Offlineldk
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: F1234K]
    #7228938 - 07/27/07 02:59 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I think E is bad, it messes up your priorities for weeks beyond the few hours or so of bliss.  Hallucinogens are a different story.  Someone had a good quote in their sig, something like "I like the escaping of reality, but I like the returning even more."

I doubt that, if she's tried it before, that she would base all her conclusions on articles.  I think you should listen to your woman if you plan to be with her in the future.  A relationship isn't all about being right or wrong, it's about sharing, experiencing, and learning.  hell she might even change her mind in the future.  Just go with the flow unless you just can't stand the (possibly temporary) difference of opinion.  tread carefully ! :wink:

In any case, it's always a good idea to change things up a little now and then, or to question your actions (not talking about anything specifically, just taht it's a good thing to do).  You don't have to think about it as caving in or anything like that.  i have been through so many routines to know that I like the variety that comes from changing things up and setting interesting goals.  That's just one man's opinion..


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: Seventy]
    #7228959 - 07/27/07 03:06 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

What's wrong with E?
From what I understand he doesn't make any abuse so I guess it's about personal choice and I see nothing out of line. :shrug:


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And never known your face
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Offlineldk
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7228994 - 07/27/07 03:16 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

oh nothing wrong with it.  you're looking at this as though someone is being negative.  As with anything in life, you can either keep someone else's experience in mind or not.  On this though, for me, MY experience (I wouldn't lie to you, you know :wink: )  it's like everything is relative when it comes to the neurotransmitters.  If you don't drink for a month, for example, when you do again it's more enjoyable.  E just took me out of the groove for way too long.  and yes, I always had the 2 or 3 days of a satisfied feeling afterwards too.  but after that came the low...  when you add another person to the mix, say she doesn't take it and you do -- I think you'd be kinda out of sync for a while.  I may have learned some things about myself, so I couldn't be certain that it wasn't worth it.

Anyway this thread is about relationships, not the drug itself :smile:  If you're single hey new experiences are always my thing :smile:


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OfflineEconomist
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: F1234K]
    #7229215 - 07/27/07 04:20 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I think the key is to find out WHY she wants you to stop doing the drugs. Is it really just about media hype, or does she want something else? Is she trying to tell you its no fun to hang out with you when you're on E, or is she really just concerned about your future?

If you are certain about the answer to those questions then it is okay to have a lively debate where you compare scientific articles. If, on the otherhand, she thinks you're embarrasing when you dance like an idiot at a club all hopped up on MDMA, then scientific articles aren't going to improve the relationship.


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OfflineDiamonds808
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: Economist]
    #7230388 - 07/27/07 02:15 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Doing E once a month is harmless.


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OfflineF1234K
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: Diamonds808]
    #7239545 - 07/30/07 12:36 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

She thinks that it will make my, mental health or general health be worse on in later life, like I will go skitzo or have acid flashbacks when Im driving our children home.


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InvisibleWhiskeyClone
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: F1234K]
    #7239586 - 07/30/07 12:58 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Reassure her that you have researched the physiological and mental effects of these drugs (you have, haven't you?) and that you believe your behavior will not have any lasting detrimental effects.

All I can suggest is to point her towards erowid and ask her to educate herself on the subject before she condemns your behavior based on her assumptions about these substances.


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Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man.  For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire.  Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it.

~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"

:heartpump:


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OfflineF1234K
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7239603 - 07/30/07 01:08 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I am very well researched, over a year of on and off research into the world of all drugs.


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Offlinetosatori
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: Diamonds808]
    #7239744 - 07/30/07 02:02 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

once a month is not harmless, the negative effects may be minor, but after say six months of this, you'll recognise them. i did.


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InvisibleInfested
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: tosatori]
    #7239927 - 07/30/07 03:01 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Nothing is harmless.


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OfflineDrewwyann
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: F1234K]
    #7239982 - 07/30/07 03:19 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

im in the exact same boat as you. my girlfriend says she has an uncle that is pretty messed up in the head and he used to do acid/shroom/weed 24/7. she failed to mention the fact that he probably dabbled in plenty of other substances. She thinks acid puts holes in your brain, and she thought that an acid flashback was whenever someone kills themself on acid. she knows me better than that, and knows that i would never try to kill myself, because im a very happy person. yet, she feels the need to bring up stuff that other

the bottom line, most girlfriends dont need a reason not to like something you do. chances are she is just jealous, or something along those lines. Im guessing you talk to her about your trips and expiriences. Some people in relationships need to find their own being and personality, so if she started doing psychedelics, it would feel, to her, like she was walking on some one else's turf, and being a follower rather than a leader in the relationship. this is purely me talking here, but this is my take on it, being in this situation many times before, as well as the moment.

what i mean is, its almost like submission if she were to just accept the fact that you are doing something that is so different from what normal people do. thats just my take on it. ill probably have a completely different theory tomorrow, but the bottom line is, if you enjoy doing it and it doesnt harm you physically or mentally, she is in no place to interject (i wish we could say that about the government).

the agreement to have her stop drinking was a good move in my opinion. get her thinking about herself, and how drinking mirrors what your doing to her, but in a more physically harmful way. just argue facts. girls often times will argue with pure emotion and feelings, and if you can block that, you win. my girlfriend claims she doesnt know why she doesnt like me doing acid/shrooms, so i told her that unless she figures it out and comes up with a valid argument im not stopping anytime soon.

hope that helped.

Edit: to make it more clear, i think that she is jealous that you can do these things, and if she started to it would be her surrendering herself as an individual in the relationship. thats more along the lines of what i meant.


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Edited by Drewwyann (07/30/07 03:23 PM)


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Offlineusefulidiot13
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: Infested]
    #7239990 - 07/30/07 03:21 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

true...nothing is harmless...using E once a month for like 6 years could definitely have ill effects guys...just depends on who you are really...

im with whiskeyclone, economist, and redgreenvines...


this always seems to be a problem to a lot of educated users...they still get lumped in with the stereotypes, rumors, and uneducated users...

sucks dude, but i have faith that if you are really set on a relationship, and are informed enough you will be able to set things straight with her and continue to enjoy your relationship


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OfflineF1234K
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: usefulidiot13]
    #7240241 - 07/30/07 04:47 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Im not going to be doing em once a month for ever, Im almost starting my schooling for a career which is when I will tone it down even more.

I also have an uncle who used to be a heroin addict, now he is off that and smokes lots of weed and does E pills and also was part of maps.org ibogane study, and he is a normal functioning person.


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Re: The girlfriend [Re: F1234K]
    #7240260 - 07/30/07 04:54 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I take E like every 3-4 months, I think it's a healthy schedule. I wouldn't want to avoid ecstasy outright (too damn much fun) but every time I do it I become concerned that I could very easily end up abusing it. It's an amphetamine, and though it's rather benign by hard drug standards, it's a hell of a lot harder on your body than any of my other drugs of choice. Just that one dose after three or four months of abstinence usually feels like absolute hell the day after.

That having been said, some people just don't understand the idea that drugs can be used for things other than forgetting your trouble and having a good time. That's certainly what ecstasy is for, but LSD and mushrooms (especially) are, if anything, the polar opposite of "escape" drugs like heroin. If you've had a bad day, everything's going wrong, and you just don't want to deal with it, ingesting a psychedelic is a horrible idea and will only make things worse. You could always try describing mushrooms as a "sacrament." Evidence shows they have been used this way from the dawn of time. What, then, is wrong with embracing this ancient, but fascinating and accessible, spiritual practice? Don't we have freedom of religious practice?


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (07/30/07 05:08 PM)


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OfflineMyInnerChild
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: F1234K]
    #7240331 - 07/30/07 05:20 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

My husband did acid about 100 times (his count) from the time he was 13 till he was 17. (stopped when most friends were just starting...never did it again).

He got to the point where he'd forget what he was saying in mid sentence. I didn't know him then. I'm just relaying his description. He was called a burn-out by those who knew him. Now he's a husband and father. Holds same job for ten years, respected member of the community etc.
If HE never had a flash-back then I can't imagine you having one. I asked about it when we were dating (He was clean and 23 years old). He said he sees trails when he's tired and he has to concentrate to see them otherwise. They're always there...very slight...but there. That's the only lasting effect. He graduated with a b+ average and is a responsible father. I let him do carpool! :smile:

I know nothing about E and so I can't comment on it. It wasn't part of our "drug vernacular" in the 70's. After 22 years of marriage, I mentioned the 1 time I did mushrooms and how great it was. AFOAF then grew some and we both tried it with the kids away for the week-end. Lovely experience. Very bonding for our marriage. Now it's a bit of weed and some cacti growing in the bedroom. We'll see where that goes. :smile: Off I go to camp car-pool!

Is laying off E worth it to you to be able to keep this g/f? i was chilled but concerned too. It's normal when you're picturing yourself w/this person (you) and in my case, my husband, for the rest of your life. Normal to lay the concerns out. It means she loves you! that's good right?
Good luck.
MIC


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My inner child runs with scissors but plays nicely with others!

Sometimes the light's all shine'in on me,
Other times I can barely see.
Lately it occurs to me,
What a looong strange trip it's been! ~ Truck'in


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OfflineF1234K
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: MyInnerChild]
    #7242086 - 07/31/07 03:02 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks mylliner, good story. I will relay that onto her.


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Offlineundergrounder
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: MyInnerChild]
    #7242136 - 07/31/07 03:15 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

What's with the E bashing? As if doing it once a month wouldn't be fine. The only people i know who have been strung out bad on E were the ones necking half a dozen pills a night, three times a week for months and months at a time. I don't know how E got such a bad rep, seems to me to be the least destructive of most of the drgs there are.

Its the other drugs often sold as E that you have to worry about, speed, meth, pcp, k, but regardless, i can't see you having any long-term side effects from having a pill every month, its not like your going to keep that up for decades to come.

A pill once a month, less in winter whatever would seem to me to be a pretty responsible use. If you or she is still worried about it, get some 5-HTP. It's a lifesaver.


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Offlineo9o
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: F1234K]
    #7242151 - 07/31/07 03:21 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

I dont have a problem with E ... just getting some right now is my problem. 3 a day easy right now....... life sucks


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Re: The girlfriend [Re: F1234K]
    #7242663 - 07/31/07 08:45 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

It sounds like you're in a hell of a situation, my friend.

First off, as drug enthusiasts, I think we all have the responsibility of telling the REAL truth to our friends and loved-ones who have been brainwashed by the media.  This is a tricky proposition, as you have to know when to present your case, and when to retreat  (telling your grandma, who grew up in the reefer madness era, how LSD is impossible to overdose on, and can be helpful in self-exploration, probably won't EVER work). But if those of us who know the real deal don't put in the effort to work against the propaganda machine, this shit will be illegal and feared by the mainstream FOR EVER. We ALL need to exercise our minds, and educate ourselves to educate others, to rip apart their wall of ignorance brick by brick. 

My second thought on this matter... aside from this issue, you really should give a lot of thought about your girlfriend, and your relationship.  How long have you been together?  Can you picture marriage?  What is it exactly that you love about her?  I, personally, wouldn't go too far out of my way to change my habits for anyone I've been with for less than a year. And to me, psychedelics are important enough, that any girl I'm with HAS to understand and respect that.

You are going to have a hard time arguing in favor of ecstasy. The evidence on both sides of that issue are conflicting, and (to me) somewhat inconclusive. Being an amphetamine-based drug, I do not trust it completely. I have taken it a couple times, and have never had any problems (I always checked the pills I took, to verify their contents; and I have always taken responsible amounts, hydrated properly, etc....)    I would explain to her that E is CAN be potentially dangerous (the honesty may help your other arguments)  but that the known cases of harm coming from ecstasy were due to problems related to overheating and dehydration... things which are easily guarded against.

Tell her that when you get E, you look for your pills at  http://www.pillreports.com/  If you live in Texas, and you see blue Mitsubishi's from Dallas on pillreports that have tested positive for mdma, you can be fairly certain that your blue Mitsubishi's contain mdma as well.  And make sure you're not lying about this... you should check your pills.

I would explain to her the concept of LD-50  (the term used to describe the dose of a drug which will reliably kill 50% of the population).  Then I would relate to her the LD-50 levels for LSD, psilocybin, and THC.  This should show her that these substances are extremely non-toxic.  LD50 Information  LSD  psilocybin



After that, I would defy her to find ANY proof that these substances harm any other bodily systems.  (Some of this burden of proof should rightly be her responsibility, if she expects you to stop.)  If she manages to find something from a government website, I would point out to her that they are biased, and explain to her that the government makes money on the war on drugs, by seizing billions worth of cash and property. Therefore, it benefits them to have drugs remain illegal, and they need a REASON for them to be illegal.  Thus we get false-claims, to generate drug hysteria among the public.

I wouldn't ONLY argue against the claims of negative health effects.  I would talk about the many positive effects of use.  Look for information about studies that have been done regarding psychedelics and psychiatric counseling.  There have been some great studies done, especially in the 60's, showing that under proper guidance, psychedelics can be successfully used as an adjunct to therapy. They have even been shown to reduce relapse-rates of hard drug addicts, and reduce recidivism rates among prisoners.  The book Acid Dreams by Martin A. Lee and Bruce Shlain has some good statistics from these and other studies. And it's a good read.  Acid Dreams

I would look for other studies and experiments, which can show the life-changing and spiritual effects that these drugs can have.  There has been some recent work done with psilocybin, and there is always the classic Miracle at Marsh Chapel experiment.

I don't really have time to hunt stuff out right now, but I'll throw in a few links that you can pore through to get you started.

I hope I've helped somewhat... and Good Luck.

Marsh Chapel

2006 Psilocybin Study  This is a PDF document. The title is: "Psilocybin can occasion mystical-type experiences having substantial and sustained personal meaning and spiritual significance."

MAPS  (of course)

The Psychedelic Library
Check out the links to sections at the bottom of the page, such as "Psychotherapy and Psychedelic Drugs"  and "Psychedelic Research of the 1950's and 1960's"  (Remember, that some of this research was done BEFORE there was a bias against psychedelics.

Some interesting info, and videos

I'll see if I can come up with anything better later.

Peace.


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Offlinesadspacemonkey
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #7242939 - 07/31/07 10:38 AM (14 years, 2 months ago)

For every research article I can find that suggests E isn't all that harmful I can find another that suggests the opposite...

My impression is that it CAN be harmful if abused- but how much is abuse?

I have a friend that does it pretty frequently - to the extent that he takes like 5 pills at once sometimes and he's pretty fried out.

Then I also know people that take a pill or two every once in awhile and they're perfectly fine. Maybe the difference is they put less strain on themselves and give their bodies a chance to repair. Also, friends who take supplements after a night of partying or just generally take care of themselves in terms of every day health handle recreational drug use pretty well.

As for acid - I also know someone who's done a LOT of acid. He sees trails sometimes but no flashbacks or anything like that.

I think people who can limit themselves, as well as stay healthy and informed should have no problems with this stuff - just my opinion. :smile:


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OfflineF1234K
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: sadspacemonkey]
    #7243259 - 07/31/07 12:42 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Much useful info everyone thanks! Yeah sadspace with me I have so much control over my drug use its crazy. I will not buy anything unless I have extra money kicking around. Even then I try to limit myself as I want each trip (with mush at least) to be real and not a spur of the moment thing.

I took a break from most drugs after a rave when I took 1 e pill and 2 tabs of acid and the next day / week my speech was very stuttered. But I stopped and it came back to normal very soon.

With my girlfriend its almost best not to argue because it does not help us that much. Its best usually to just not bother her with the drug issues. Its not like I would hide my drug use, I would rather just not argue about the dangers because (sorry if this is sexist) girls are "always right"


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: F1234K]
    #7243897 - 07/31/07 03:41 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

You're never going to win the argument if you refuse to argue.

Though you probably shouldn't put too much effort into convincing her that E is all right, because it's really not. If you can be careful with it and not abuse it, the harmful effects remain at a minimum (as I said earlier I believe my once every 3-4 months is a good policy), but if I used as much E as I do mushrooms and LSD I'm sure I'd be an irreparable emotional wreck right now.

You might tell her about DMT, and how in spite of being the most powerful psychedelic known to man it is also manufactured by the human brain. Explain that the other big psychedelics, like psilocybin and LSD, are closely related to this natural brain chemical in both structure and effect.

I do think it's really important that you explain to your girlfriend why psychedelics are not only safe in the right hands but highly beneficial. It's a major part of your life (I'm guessing) and it's a point of friction that should be smoothed over when possible. And of course, ad CidneyIndole said, it's kind of our duty to educate the misinformed masses about the real nature of psychedelics.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (07/31/07 03:43 PM)


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OfflineMyInnerChild
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Registered: 11/11/06
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Re: The girlfriend [Re: F1234K]
    #7247752 - 08/01/07 04:07 PM (14 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

F1234K said:
Much useful info everyone thanks! girls are "always right"




I agree that you've received some comprehensive replies here...well done people!  :thumbup:

For that last comment..I'll repeat a joke my husband enjoys telling our guests. It's a mock intellectual query that goes like this: "If a man says something and there is not woman there to hear it...is he still wrong?"
Good one eh? :laugh:


--------------------

My inner child runs with scissors but plays nicely with others!

Sometimes the light's all shine'in on me,
Other times I can barely see.
Lately it occurs to me,
What a looong strange trip it's been! ~ Truck'in


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