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Offlinedruglord
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Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 90
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Bodies/Social Roles/Illusion of Life
    #7181218 - 07/15/07 10:12 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

When I'm high, I can see past social roles, images, personas, etc. where in my normal state of mind, I subconsciously treat these as an integral part of life. Does anyone else experience this? For example, looking at my dog, I saw her as another conscious entity (like myself) fit into a body, playing a certain role in that body. I felt that if we stepped outside the pet/pet owner roles and recognized this as two equal entities, something bad would happen, like my dog would get antry and attack me. I get this slipping feeling when I abandon this illusion too much and I quickly have to return to it or I feel as though I'll die.

I think that social roles and personas are just a way to collectively distract ourselves from the truth, which nobody wants to recognize because it's equivalent to death as we understand it in our illusory world--abandonment of the body and the body-centric illusion. We all deceive ourselves to a certain degree, some more than others, because it's required to sustain life as we know it.

Can anyone else relate to this?

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OfflineJoseLibrado
return


Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: Bodies/Social Roles/Illusion of Life [Re: druglord]
    #7181428 - 07/15/07 10:57 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I get this too. With loving ourselves, one can transcend it more and more each day. It is not comfortable to do this, however, to me this type of thinking is a sort of drug. It sends a feeling through my body that i feel at times lost without and like a drug attic slip back into it, coming back to this place right here - a place where i am fed up with this drug and yern for the new one. I've seen this more and more with many people. Once you start to make concious choices to take yourself to a new level, your body goes through a withdrawl of a spiritual/mental sort. I experiencing this now more and more, meditating helps me feel better, but really it is all here, in our thoughts.


--------------------
The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.

And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.

Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.

Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Bodies/Social Roles/Illusion of Life [Re: druglord]
    #7182777 - 07/16/07 10:51 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I get this slipping feeling when I abandon this illusion too much and I quickly have to return to it or I feel as though I'll die.

I think that social roles and personas are just a way to collectively distract ourselves from the truth, which nobody wants to recognize because it's equivalent to death as we understand it in our illusory world--abandonment of the body and the body-centric illusion. We all deceive ourselves to a certain degree, some more than others, because it's required to sustain life as we know it.


Interesting post. I agree that Death anxiety is a powerful force in our experience. Survival instincts go along with being meat. There would it seems be barriers to overcoming instinct, as the prime directive is to last long enough to reproduce.

Do you think there is more to it than this?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinedruglord
Stranger
Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 90
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: Bodies/Social Roles/Illusion of Life [Re: Icelander]
    #7184486 - 07/16/07 06:30 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:

Interesting post. I agree that Death anxiety is a powerful force in our experience. Survival instincts go along with being meat. There would it seems be barriers to overcoming instinct, as the prime directive is to last long enough to reproduce.

Do you think there is more to it than this?




I think that from a materialist perspective, this is accurate. But there's a parallel spiritual (seems to be the common term) perspective that involves different interpretations of the same phenomenon. Rather than the need for physical security and self-aggrandizement that the materialist perspective produces, the spriritual perspective creates a drive for truth and the shedding of excess baggage, which I believe culminates in death. Sickness and death as it's interpreted in the materialist perspective is equivalent to disintegration and destruction of the illusion. Transcending physical death means seeing things from a purely spritual perspective where death is interpreted as enlightenment. Death is still death, but it's interpreted differently. We cannot control events, but we have an unlimited capacity to interpret them in whatever way we choose.

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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 10 months
Re: Bodies/Social Roles/Illusion of Life [Re: druglord]
    #7184519 - 07/16/07 06:40 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

i think i get what you mean, but why do you think your dog would attack you?

i fear that a bit from my grandmother's dog when i try to look deeply into her, but she is a wily young and disobedient german shepherd, not my dog and not imprinted upon my energy.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Bodies/Social Roles/Illusion of Life [Re: druglord]
    #7184950 - 07/16/07 08:21 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

druglord said:
Quote:

Icelander said:

Interesting post. I agree that Death anxiety is a powerful force in our experience. Survival instincts go along with being meat. There would it seems be barriers to overcoming instinct, as the prime directive is to last long enough to reproduce.

Do you think there is more to it than this?




I think that from a materialist perspective, this is accurate. But there's a parallel spiritual (seems to be the common term) perspective that involves different interpretations of the same phenomenon. Rather than the need for physical security and self-aggrandizement that the materialist perspective produces, the spriritual perspective creates a drive for truth and the shedding of excess baggage, which I believe culminates in death. Sickness and death as it's interpreted in the materialist perspective is equivalent to disintegration and destruction of the illusion. Transcending physical death means seeing things from a purely spritual perspective where death is interpreted as enlightenment. Death is still death, but it's interpreted differently. We cannot control events, but we have an unlimited capacity to interpret them in whatever way we choose.




Well that's true IMO. But what leads you to believe that "Spirituality" is not a result of animal/material death anxiety? The differing interpretations is a slight of hand/mind used to escape direct awareness of death anxiety on the animal level which brings us back to where we started from.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineJoseLibrado
return


Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: Bodies/Social Roles/Illusion of Life [Re: Icelander]
    #7185338 - 07/16/07 09:24 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

"as the prime directive is to last long enough to reproduce."
I do know there is more to life than this,im sure of it. The proof is in the truth that guides me, i have no desire to reproduce, in fact i am currently guiding myself towards adopting a kid, if that at all. Right now i have a prime directive, a motivation, that is to change my nature, as a being who has been conditioned to love conditionall, rather than love unconditionally.

I would enjoy your ideas on why death anxiety leads to a notion of spirituality and am open to it making sense in my mind! Share if it pleases!
C ya


--------------------
The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.

And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.

Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.

Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....

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Offlineonlynow
transformativeinformativeenergy
Male User Gallery


Registered: 02/06/07
Posts: 1,480
Last seen: 16 years, 4 months
Re: Bodies/Social Roles/Illusion of Life [Re: druglord]
    #7185438 - 07/16/07 09:43 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

druglord said:
When I'm high, I can see past social roles, images, personas, etc. where in my normal state of mind, I subconsciously treat these as an integral part of life.  Does anyone else experience this?




guess im always high :lol:

or my social role/image/persona is a spaced out quack druggy



--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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OfflineGrok
Has Been a Bad Boy
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Registered: 12/03/03
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Re: Bodies/Social Roles/Illusion of Life [Re: druglord]
    #7186410 - 07/17/07 01:33 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

druglord said:
When I'm high, I can see past social roles, images, personas, etc. where in my normal state of mind, I subconsciously treat these as an integral part of life. Does anyone else experience this? For example, looking at my dog, I saw her as another conscious entity (like myself) fit into a body, playing a certain role in that body. I felt that if we stepped outside the pet/pet owner roles and recognized this as two equal entities, something bad would happen, like my dog would get antry and attack me. I get this slipping feeling when I abandon this illusion too much and I quickly have to return to it or I feel as though I'll die.

I think that social roles and personas are just a way to collectively distract ourselves from the truth, which nobody wants to recognize because it's equivalent to death as we understand it in our illusory world--abandonment of the body and the body-centric illusion. We all deceive ourselves to a certain degree, some more than others, because it's required to sustain life as we know it.

Can anyone else relate to this?




Very much so. On a particular lifeshattering trip I had about a year ago "I" died and was unhinged from my body for a good eternity or so. (I do not want to derail this thread debating the validity of my experience for those who may be inclined). When I returned to it and figured out that I was in fact still alive and functional, I had this ephipheny about how the purpose of a body is to do stuff with it, but that it didn't really matter beyond that. Might not sound like much, but when you're looking at your body from the top, front, back, and sides all at the same time and cannot cause yourself to do anything anymore, yet you still 'are', it kind of throws a wrench into the previous assumptions made about life. I realized, among a host of other things, that life was my chance to do what I wanted to do and there was nothing to lose because I would die eventually/inevitably and be back into eternity.

You are entirely correct, IMO, about maintaining our roles and personas to perpetuate our way of life, and that if we were to see past it, there would be a sort of collective ego death. Our lives are center around the body, when IME it's just an (amazing) tool we have.

I'd love to write more, this is a fascinating topic to me. But my body is tired from doing things I don't necessarily care to do be doing and I prefer sleep.


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Bodies/Social Roles/Illusion of Life [Re: JoseLibrado]
    #7187478 - 07/17/07 10:32 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

JoseLibrado said:
"as the prime directive is to last long enough to reproduce."
I do know there is more to life than this,im sure of it. The proof is in the truth that guides me, i have no desire to reproduce, in fact i am currently guiding myself towards adopting a kid, if that at all. Right now i have a prime directive, a motivation, that is to change my nature, as a being who has been conditioned to love conditionally, rather than love unconditionally.

Spirituality, Sexuality, Materialism, Hedonism, etc. are all ways to distract oneself from the conscious and unconscious anxiety produced by the idea that ones personality structure is not permanent (death). Everything we do and think and feel is powered by the fact that we will die. Death give meaning to our lives.

I would enjoy your ideas on why death anxiety leads to a notion of spirituality and am open to it making sense in my mind! Share if it pleases!
C ya




You may feel there is more to life but does the Universe that created you? The fact that a few childless (myself also) slip through the cracks is of no importance in the big picture. And you and I do have a sex urge that might get us into children whether we like it or not. The "truth" that guides you is your subjective opinion of truth which is different from everyone else's and is subject to change by you at any time as you grow and change.

Spirituality, Sexuality, Materialism, Hedonism, etc. are all ways to distract oneself from the conscious and unconscious anxiety produced by the idea that ones personality structure is not permanent (death). Everything we do and think and feel is powered by the fact that we will die. Death gives meaning to our lives.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineJoseLibrado
return


Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: Bodies/Social Roles/Illusion of Life [Re: Icelander]
    #7188531 - 07/17/07 02:50 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

"And you and I do have a sex urge that might get us into children whether we like it or not"

This still does not convince me that our prime directive is reproduction. I do not believe it can be, empirical truth says it isnt. There are people who are sexually attracted to beings they cannot reproduce with and when you describe a prime directive without saying mine and saying ours, you imply a certain nature.

My identity is constant - in that it always changes. I know this and do what i can to live this truth and express it.

One thing i noticed is that you assume no personality after death. I have not discovered this and believe that life is infinite and is infinitly changing.

"The "truth" that guides you is your subjective opinion of truth which is different from everyone else's and is subject to change by you at any time as you grow and change"
This is true, i be-live it.


--------------------
The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.

And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.

Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.

Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinedruglord
Stranger
Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 90
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: Bodies/Social Roles/Illusion of Life [Re: leery11]
    #7189694 - 07/17/07 07:31 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

leery11 said:
i think i get what you mean, but why do you think your dog would attack you?




Well, even though she's my own dog, I thought that she might flip out if I somehow forced her to confront her own illusion. Psychedelics make you paranoid because they open you up to possibilities like that...even if the likelihood is small.

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Offlinedruglord
Stranger
Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 90
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: Bodies/Social Roles/Illusion of Life [Re: Icelander]
    #7189703 - 07/17/07 07:32 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Well that's true IMO. But what leads you to believe that "Spirituality" is not a result of animal/material death anxiety? The differing interpretations is a slight of hand/mind used to escape direct awareness of death anxiety on the animal level which brings us back to where we started from.




You might be right. I can only know "spirituality" from a phenomenological perspective--what it does to my experience. As far as what actually exists in some objective reality and whether our consciousness survives bodily death, we have no way of knowing for sure. There are accounts of veridical NDEs and OBEs like Grok's, but for all I know, these people/you people and their/your accounts and even my own experiences could be a product of my own imagination (solipsism). Intuitively though, I don't think that consciousness can somehow spring forth from physiology. Plus my own mystical experiences lead me to believe that my consciousness will not go away. But of course I could be wrong since it's all subjective.

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Offlinedruglord
Stranger
Registered: 01/14/07
Posts: 90
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
Re: Bodies/Social Roles/Illusion of Life [Re: JoseLibrado]
    #7189713 - 07/17/07 07:35 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

JoseLibrado said:
Right now i have a prime directive, a motivation, that is to change my nature, as a being who has been conditioned to love conditionall, rather than love unconditionally.





Cool. I think the "spiritual" perspective involves seeing others not for their superficial qualities but in their essence--as beings confronting the same change/uncertainty/mortality and looking to find themselves...as a reflection of yourself or as yourself. I know that for me, it's only in this way that it's possible to love unconditionally.

Quote:

JoseLibrado said:
My identity is constant - in that it always changes. I know this and do what i can to live this truth and express it.




I've found the same thing. I don't think that there's even one thing that's core to my identity.

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OfflineJoseLibrado
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Posts: 569
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Re: Bodies/Social Roles/Illusion of Life [Re: druglord]
    #7190024 - 07/17/07 08:51 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Core to an identity(i define identity as the truth you choose to express), is Love unconditional. If our identity is not founded in this it will not be an identity formed out of free will - also shown to me to be choice. Yet this question comes to mind.
If some guy said go and help this guy with his problems or else i will hurt you and you did - would that be trully be you as an being expressing truth or would it only seem like its you?

Identity from my experience is described to me as the truth you intend on expressing or being. But can i be a being, if i am not being freely?

A quick asnwere to this is no, there must be love unconditional if we choose to have identity.
Love you all tho!


--------------------
The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.

And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.

Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.

Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFreeYourMind
shroom head 420
Male User Gallery


Registered: 08/20/06
Posts: 36
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
Re: Bodies/Social Roles/Illusion of Life [Re: JoseLibrado]
    #7226732 - 07/26/07 01:35 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

yes i believe we all not what your talking about and can relate in someway the Buddhist call this ego death to transcend beyond the cultural illusion that have been brought upon us and manifest themselves in our mind this happens quite frequently when i meditate or when trippin i can see past the lies that culture has burdened on us to live act and think a certain way.


--------------------
It is what you make It

"with you thoughts, you create the world"

What you feel, what you percieve is the world

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