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 reafer99
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/07
Posts: 20
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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 Subb. variation or new shroom? 
#7222991 - 07/25/07 04:42 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well ive been finding a few Pann Subbs here and there in my fields. Not that many, mostly because its been so hot and dry. Well last week after our heaviest rain yet, i found a few unmistakable subs in the usual areas. I also found this cow pie with what appeared to be subb aborts. The pies usually dry out much faster than the hay/smash/compost ive been finding them.
Well i decided to bring this one pie back and start a small outdoor grow. Upon seein these first fruits, they no longer look like the normal subbs ive been finding.
These are at NC/VA border. The spores are unmistakably black, no doubt at all. Caps are more domed and darker than im used to seeing. Gonna give them till morning too see what they look like as they mature more.
What are the chances these are subbs as well? Or more importantly, that they be toxic? twould hurt my feelings finding out that theres a toxic/inactive with a black spore print, that so closely resembles subbs.
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Thanks in advance for any input, and thanks for the knowledge to be able to find the few i have.
T
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 cactu
culture and magic
Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 3,913
Loc: mexicoelcentrodelconocimi...
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 Re: Subb. variation or new shroom? [Re: reafer99]
#7223339 - 07/25/07 05:54 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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loook like paneolus returis also good no any paneolus is toxic, some are edibles as pan. semiovatus,but many are psilocybin producer in small quantytys not only pan subbalteatus , i have try many kind with no iill efect but instead a joyfull entheogenic expérience , look for bluing in tthe base of the stem the most potent usually show it , in paneolus is confusion in many taxonomist features like if this is one or the other , but when taxonomist beging to clear out all their finds in dna analisis maybe we can asure what tipe are we tooking about guees is the only way in some especies and paneolus tend to apear in one place and no be there next year they tend to colonize diferent niche and adapt to diferent situacion and they are evolving ,adapting, and changing thnere is a tendency for paneolus as i´m observing throgh the years thet they are becoming more and more as psylocybe they tend to imitate then and not only in the look but in the sustance they produce , is hard to xplaing but more races of psicoactive paneolus are apearing and more people is trying then and cultivating then all my best vibration
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cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa al lado se puede sentir que valio la pena haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo
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thetonebone72
Hunter -Gatherer
Registered: 03/11/06
Posts: 1,125
Loc: Oregon
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Subb. variation or new shroom? [Re: cactu]
#7223423 - 07/25/07 06:21 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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I thought subbs didn't grow directly off shit. Maybe it's Psilocybe coprophila?
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Hunt On, Good Fellow
  
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vandago
Registered: 07/07/04
Posts: 20,932
Loc: .
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Re: Subb. variation or new shroom? [Re: thetonebone72]
#7223502 - 07/25/07 06:41 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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subbs will grow directly from dung. Seen it hundereds of times.
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2859558484
Growery is Better
Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 8,752
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Re: Subb. variation or new shroom? [Re: vandago]
#7223572 - 07/25/07 07:03 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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looks like psilocybe coprophila ,inactive
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reafer99
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/07
Posts: 20
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: Subb. variation or new shroom? [Re: 2859558484]
#7223802 - 07/25/07 08:14 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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spore print is BLACK. No doubt about that. so im pretty sure its not P. Copro. Will be back in a few.
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Jair
Smeghead
Registered: 06/08/07
Posts: 2,601
Loc: East Coast
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
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Re: Subb. variation or new shroom? [Re: reafer99]
#7223889 - 07/25/07 08:39 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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I agree with you reafer99, I don't believe this is P. copro. I have seen P. copro. many times and this is something different. Sorry I can't tell you waht it is, but I can help you out with what it isn't.
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reafer99
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/07
Posts: 20
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: Subb. variation or new shroom? [Re: Jair]
#7224466 - 07/25/07 11:06 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yea ive found some shrooms that i believed were P. Coprophila. Those were these. Purple Brown spores, white hollow stems. Only specimens of this type ive found so far, and these were old and rotting when i found them.(first year looking)
Crappy cam is getting annoying. ( Might be an operator error)
Those were found in similar field less than a mile away. (also on our land)
These, which are undoubtedly subbs, were found less than 100ft away from the mushies in first post.
All this has gotten me wondering if some of these panns. snuck into the first batch i bio assayed. I had 3 gs dried, with mild effects, VERY mild visuals, but no question an effect. Still this has worried me and i will HAVE to be more careful in the future.
It'd be nice if they were active as well, but given my luck; its highly doubtful. A black print identifies it as cope/pann genus, correct? So if im 100% sure its JET black, likelihood of sickness is none? The reason i ask is, i have a couple dried grams of which im 100% sure 95% of them are Pann Subbs. Ive been collecting 1 or 2, here or there, for a month to get that, and if there is any other species in that collection, it is this species. Which its highly unlikely, but possible.
Just goes to show how much theres still to learn... 
Thanks for patience in teaching this noob.
Will take more pics before work tomorrow, as for now alcohol and sleep deprivation are takings its toll.
T
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist
Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,364
Last seen: 1 hour, 17 minutes
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Re: Subb. variation or new shroom? [Re: reafer99]
#7224662 - 07/26/07 12:00 AM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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> A black print identifies it as cope/pann genus, correct?
Other genuses with black prints include Coprinus, Coprinopsis, Coprinellus, Parasola, Gomphidius, Chroogomphus, and sometimes Psathyrella.
None of those genuses have any toxic species, except for Coprinopsis atramentaria.
> So if im 100% sure its JET black, likelihood of sickness is none?
Not none, but very small. You could still have an alergic reaction to a certain species or get food poisoning from a rotten mushroom.
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CureCat
Strangest
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
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 Re: Subb. variation or new shroom? [Re: reafer99]
#7224755 - 07/26/07 12:36 AM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
reafer99 said:
I see a ring annulus... I have never seen this characteristic in Pan. subbalteatus, though, the spore print is certainly jet black.
As Alan explained, you won't die unless you are allergic.... though if you eat quite a lot, you may feel nauseas.
A clear print would likely settle the identity.
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reafer99
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/07
Posts: 20
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: Subb. variation or new shroom? [Re: CureCat]
#7226738 - 07/26/07 01:39 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thanks Alan and CC.
I believe what you are seeing as an annulus is actually just spore deposit. That pic is actually quite deceiving. The second pic here has a similar deposit on the stem.
These are all mature specimens. I left some there to see if they would mature more, only to find that they had fallen off and shriveled up, before i got off work. Spore print is black for sure, pics arnt doing it justice. This is the thickest spore print of any type ive collected. You can see in the second pic, where the spores have collected on the cap.
I havnt noticed any bluing that i am sure of. The small piece in the third pic is a piece of mycelium off the base of the bigger one. The same piece can be seen in the top/right of the fourth pic, and now that i look at it does look slightly blue. Might just be the pic. I thought it had a bit of bluing, but it could be imagined. Then again none of the REAL subbs ive found have shown any REAL bluing, just hints of it and mostly not even that.
Hope this helps. Questions and comments are much appreciated. Im really curious about this species.
T
Edited by reafer99 (07/26/07 01:45 PM)
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georgeM
Human
Registered: 07/05/05
Posts: 1,751
Loc: Osage Cuestas
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 Re: Subb. variation or new shroom? [Re: reafer99]
#7226829 - 07/26/07 02:10 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
These, which are undoubtedly subbs, were found less than 100ft away from the mushies in first post.
I’ve found campanulatus and retirugis growing mere inches from subbalteatus. Proximity isn’t always going to be useful in determining species.
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cactu
culture and magic
Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 3,913
Loc: mexicoelcentrodelconocimi...
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Re: Subb. variation or new shroom? [Re: reafer99]
#7226875 - 07/26/07 02:21 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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i my experience is dificult to see the bluing reaction in some paneolus that the stem color is more redishbrow and more easy in the ones the stem is more white,straw ,hay color, but is there , i have seen it in pan fimicola, pan returis ,, of course is easyli seen in paneolus subbalteatus but no in all specimens , and have found many paneolus with the sprictinus complex, campanulatus ,papiliocenus, and god know what else that don´t show nothing but are hallucinogenic in high doses, with the ones you se the bluing 30 mushrooms is enoufh to fell it , and for the other more that 50 sometime they are very petit mushrooms also when you dry then they loose must of the powers due to bad drying or they where to wet someting very easy with paneolus they have so much water ,so fresh is when you fell the effect more easy , hope i can help the firts color that present resemble to reuturis and they look now more as sprictinus , that the thing paneolus vari so much that only dna and microscopic study could make the desicion ,so for people in the field is more easy to look for spores color and personal experience , not encouragin to eat then but also don´t fell afraid if you do your work many paneolus i have eat and i loose fear chao all my best
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cuando una rafaga del pensamiento nos pasa al lado se puede sentir que valio la pena haber vivido, y cuando ese pensamiento se convierte en sueño no paramos de soñar hasta realizarlo
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reafer99
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/07
Posts: 20
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: Subb. variation or new shroom? [Re: georgeM]
#7227026 - 07/26/07 03:06 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ty george. Ive read similar accounts. That was really just a precursor to the mixed batch question.
When i first started looking i was under the impression that if a found a mushroom in one location, it ruled that location out for finding other mushrooms.(not sure where i got this, either made up or misunderstood something) Upon checking one of my most promising looking spots, i found it was covered with these:
I was kinda upset, because going by my previous logic, i thought i wouldnt ever find any subbs. there. Lo' and behold a week later, that same place was where i made my first find.
A humbling instance, it was. Sometimes i need to be reminded that i dont know a damned thing, and to assume NOTHING. (still working on that...)
Been meaning to make a hunting thread and post these other pics, just never got around to it. Practicing with this cam so i dont come out of the fields, just to find out that my pics were attacked by the "bluur".
t
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CureCat
Strangest
Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 14,058
Loc: clawing your furniture
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Re: Subb. variation or new shroom? [Re: reafer99]
#7227046 - 07/26/07 03:13 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
reafer99 said:
When i first started looking i was under the impression that if a found a mushroom in one location, it ruled that location out for finding other mushrooms.(not sure where i got this, either made up or misunderstood something) Upon checking one of my most promising looking spots, i found it was covered with these:
That is not correct. multiple species can share one substrate. I have seen numerous photos of 3 or 4 species growing off one cow patty, and have found that 3 or for species of mushrooms may show up within the same square foot throughout the year.
The mushroom pictured above is a Conocybe, not ebilbe, not active.
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reafer99
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/07
Posts: 20
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: Subb. variation or new shroom? [Re: CureCat]
#7227181 - 07/26/07 03:53 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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hmm, maybe ill go back to just reading. always get to far ahead of myself or just don't get thoughts in print clearly.
i was saying that was a mis-conception that i had when i first started hunting earlier this year. after reading other's accounts, i went back to that spot and found that they can share the same substrate. sorry for misunderstanding.
@Cactu- thank you buddy for the info. so its safe to say its a pann. something and i would need microscopy work to further narrow that down. Somehow i missed your post while i had the other window up.
thank you all for the help
t
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