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Invisibleemeryg89
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Subb. Question
    #7215641 - 07/23/07 08:58 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Hey friends!!

Some outdoor trays of subbs were started from mycelial networks recovered from some mushroom picking sessions. I've got a couple questions regarding this species of mushrooms.

I know that sometimes they blue and sometimes they don't. None of the one's I've picked have blued. It also appears they're fairly impotent. Is bluing a symbol of higher potency with these ones or can it go either way? And if mine are impotent, is there anything one can do to increase their potency?

Outdoors they were growing in mixed substrates but always with an amount of composted horse manure present, often surrounded by patches of grass and weeds which obviously were stealing nutrients from the mushrooms. The small colonized pieces were uprooted and mixed with trays of straw and composted manure. Would one think this would be enough to produce relatively fair mushrooms?

Thanks for any input.

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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: Subb. Question [Re: emeryg89]
    #7215862 - 07/23/07 09:56 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

bluing is an indication of psilocybin and aside from the very distinctive animita, all shrooms you'd think of to trip, blue when tissue is damaged.

Not only is what you have not likely active, it could be deadly. caveat emptor!


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.

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Offlinexaxphaanes
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Re: Subb. Question [Re: mycocurious]
    #7216195 - 07/23/07 11:05 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

There are some species that bruise blue that are not active FYI.


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"Anything i say is fictional"
  what you should look for in manure

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Invisibledurban_poison
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Re: Subb. Question [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #7216294 - 07/23/07 11:32 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

i think you guys misunderstood. if they were outdoor trays that means he grew them.

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OfflineThe shroomy 1
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Re: Subb. Question [Re: durban_poison]
    #7216710 - 07/24/07 01:57 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

durban_poison said:
i think you guys misunderstood. if they were outdoor trays that means he grew them.




He stated that they were from, "mushroom picking sessions". Doesn't matter that he grew them! Matters that he grew them from mushrooms out in the field! I could go in my back yard and see a shroom and say, "Hmm you look cute, I think I'll collect your spores, make a syringe and inoculate a brf/verm jar with you. Oh, you didn't blue....I guess you're not potent. (see what I'm trying to get at)


--------------------


AMU Q&A thread.

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InvisibleGanzig
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Re: Subb. Question [Re: The shroomy 1]
    #7216782 - 07/24/07 02:41 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

If they are already growing outside then why do you want to put them in a tray to grow them outside?

And yeah I think it could work.  But I also think the best fruits will come from mother nature.  Maybe you can get bigger fruits from what you are doing.:shrug:  It sounds like fun anyway.


--------------------
I must keep reminding myself of this.
I must keep reminding myself of this. I must keep reminding myself of this.
I must keep reminding myself of this.

Edited by Ganzig (07/24/07 02:44 AM)

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OfflineThe shroomy 1
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Re: Subb. Question [Re: Ganzig]
    #7216793 - 07/24/07 02:57 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Ganzig said:
If they are already growing outside then why do you want to put them in a tray to grow them outside?

And yeah I think it could work.  But I also think the best fruits will come from mother nature.  Maybe you can get bigger fruits from what you are doing.:shrug:  It sounds like fun anyway.



It is fun!  It's fun until you start wondering if you can eat them.  He is wondering if the fact that it is not bluing has anything to do with potency.  I DON'T QUESTION POTENCY UNLESS I'M THINKING OF EATING IT!!!  I would not eat it if I didn't know EXACTLY what shroom I  had in front of me!  I only have one liver baby! And I intend on keeping it!


--------------------


AMU Q&A thread.

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InvisibleGanzig
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Re: Subb. Question [Re: The shroomy 1]
    #7216820 - 07/24/07 03:18 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The shroomy 1 said:
Quote:

Ganzig said:
If they are already growing outside then why do you want to put them in a tray to grow them outside?

And yeah I think it could work.  But I also think the best fruits will come from mother nature.  Maybe you can get bigger fruits from what you are doing.:shrug:  It sounds like fun anyway.



It is fun!  It's fun until you start wondering if you can eat them.  He is wondering if the fact that it is not bluing has anything to do with potency.  I DON'T QUESTION POTENCY UNLESS I'M THINKING OF EATING IT!!!  I would not eat it if I didn't know EXACTLY what shroom I  had in front of me!  I only have one liver baby! And I intend on keeping it!




Well I understand your concern.  I guess I just didnt question weather or not he knows what he has.  I did not think to question him because he did not ask what they were he told us.  But very good point we should all understand that you cannot play around eating mushrooms if you dont know or are unsure of what they are.  Although I think that he knows what he has.  Take a look at his user gallery.  He has a table top of Subbs in his pictures.  But that is great that you are concerned.  Thats how everyone should be when it comes to mushrooms.  Respectful.


--------------------
I must keep reminding myself of this.
I must keep reminding myself of this. I must keep reminding myself of this.
I must keep reminding myself of this.

Edited by Ganzig (07/24/07 03:24 AM)

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OfflineThe shroomy 1
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Re: Subb. Question [Re: Ganzig]
    #7216841 - 07/24/07 03:42 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Well hell, I didn't even think of looking at his gallery. Good point. Those roughly look like PESA strain, but the fact that they dry brown concerns me. At this point I don't know enough about his experience with cultivating, or where he's going with this thread. Sorry.


--------------------


AMU Q&A thread.

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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: Subb. Question [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #7217032 - 07/24/07 07:03 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

xaxphaanes said:
There are some species that bruise blue that are not active FYI.




Blue bruising boletes, right? kinda milky/flaky exterior? very nasty tummy and headache (if not poisonous) I'm not very good at identifications...always wanted to go out with experienced hunters but have never had a chance.


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.

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Invisiblejeetered
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Re: Subb. Question [Re: emeryg89]
    #7217036 - 07/24/07 07:07 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

blue bruising but not active:






don't eat shrooms from teh wild unless you know wtf you're doing.

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InvisibleGanzig
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Re: Subb. Question [Re: jeetered]
    #7217678 - 07/24/07 11:42 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Holy shit you two! He is not asking for an ID. Read the posts in the thread. He knows what he has!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wait, you two are just talking to each other. Right?

Edited by Ganzig (07/24/07 11:44 AM)

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Invisibleemeryg89
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Re: Subb. Question [Re: Ganzig]
    #7218268 - 07/24/07 01:53 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Alright, sorry for all the confusion friends... first let me state, that I never personally said I was the one who was growing these. I was merely asking some questions.

The mycelium that has been transferred to trays are in fact 100% completely identified subbs... all features match including the spore print. I was going to include a pic of the one's that were harvested for their mycelial networks but my batteries were dead, and now they're all dry so a photo would be useless. Before when picking was done (and a post had been made in the mushroom hunting forum), as well as a couple other times foraging, I believe some inactive Pans. got mixed up with the bunch. These mushrooms were all eaten by friends, since it was known 100% that there was nothing deadly in the mix. Nobody got sick, whatsoever, but the effects were very small, making me further believe that inactive pans were included in the picking (I was not the only one picking here, just to mention, and I never did eat any myself). The last time foraging was done, I made sure I only picked one's that were definative subbs and stayed away from any areas where other variations were growing. The variations look much like subbs, but from bioassays they've been proven to not be... spore-printing wasn't done at this time... I'll say again, that I didn't eat any, and those that did, I told them straight out of the risk that possibly they weren't eating all subbs, but reassured them that nothing very dangerous was included, because there wasn't. I know the deadly mushrooms in my area!

So just to make you all feel more secure, the mycelium transferred to horse poo trays were 100% identified subbs, and nothing else. And like I said, areas where other species or variations were intermingling in the ground weren't touched, so that only subb. mycelium would be included in the transfer.

I apologize for any confusion. Maybe I should've been clearer in the original post... I assumed you would've all figured someone would have 100% identification of their mushrooms before attempting growth and eating. I am seriously suspicious when it comes to wild specimens too. This is why I never touched the first picked batches, because other people picking were involved and I only really trust myself when it comes to these things... I do know what I am doing, regardless of whatever assumptions were made. Other's weren't so wary of ingesting them, which I did warn repeatedly.

From what I gathered now, there are two seperate species of inactive pans mixed in the manure piles and pasture where these subbs were found. Each species also shows relatively different phenotypes depending on where they're growing as well. After a few attempts, I've got it narrowed down to the two variations of subbs growing there. One's in the grass which are taller, and usually more grayish in color, and one's in more manure-rich areas which are short and thicker, and slightly more brown-reddish in the cap. Spore-prints check out on both... I would've liked to have posted the photo of them after they were harvested, but alas, that's done and over with.

AS for why they're being transplanted when they can just be picked... well, for one, the traveling distance involved. For two, mother nature doesn't always rain when you want, therefore producing flushes when she feels like. A pan of colonized subbs (ooh, good pun) can be kept in the shade and watered when needed to produce continuous flushes, as well as concentrated flushes, whereas outdoors, I have to crawl my way through the grass, brushing it aside, and hunting for hours to find a few dry grams. Another positive benefit of this is that as I said in the original thread, there are a lot of variations in habitat (at the pasture) creating variations in the subb growth. I have found a couple nice fat small one's which are growing mainly from composted straw and manure... however, there are still plants leeching nutrients and inhibiting mycelial growth all around them. In a tray, without any plants, and a few inches of manure and straw, they ought to produce better, bigger, and in a more uniform way. These are just my hopes though, I was really just experimenting here.

As for where I was going with the thread, I was going to just keep a log with photos and see how they grow, and see if my initial hypothesis about potency and growth habits were correct.

Yes, mother nature does produce the best fruits, but she also is sometimes not at the convenience of the person in question. This is not to say I do not have profound respect for mother nature... if that were the case, I'd be growing them indoors in completely sterile situations... I'm trying to mimic natural habitat here with a few tweaked perimeters, in hopes that it may work as I had planned.

Hope this helps.

Peace, and much thanks for the concern.

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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: Subb. Question [Re: Ganzig]
    #7218355 - 07/24/07 02:16 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

yea, I kind of painted myself in a corner on that one so I gave up. I didn't mean to imply that all blue-bruising mushrooms contained actives, just that all psilocybin do bruise blue, aside from the anamita.

As for the "not asking for an ID" I don't know, for some reason it just set of fall kinds of warning flags.

But, back to the original posters question. If the mushroom contains psilocybin it will bruise blue when cut or otherwise damaged. If there is no indication of bluing at all, then it's very likely that it's not an active mushie. Other than rich nutrient sources, there's nothing you can do to increase / enhance potency...it's a genetic trait of the specific strain.


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.

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Invisibleemeryg89
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Re: Subb. Question [Re: mycocurious]
    #7218376 - 07/24/07 02:22 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Well, these are definately subbs, and haven't witnessed bruising yet, at least from the latest batch of which the mycelial networks were recovered. I have also read that subbs do not always bruise blue, I was only wondering if the bluing correlated to potency with this species.

Take gymnos for example... they're rather impotent, yet bruise all kinds of blue... and it is a stated fact that subbs only blue 'sometimes'.

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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: Subb. Question [Re: emeryg89]
    #7218414 - 07/24/07 02:35 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

:commonsense:

I'm having a real time with this thread, hehe, the whole time I was thinking you were asking substrate questions and that's what you meant by subb. question and not "Pan subbs" (Panaeolus Subbalteatus)

Also found this:
Quote:

That sounds about how the subbs I pick bruise. They won't blue on the stem, just darken, but if you pull up some white mycelium with the mushroom, it will stain a light shade of blue, nothing like a cubie.




I'll just be over here in the corner... :irdumbtard:


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.

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Invisibleemeryg89
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Re: Subb. Question [Re: mycocurious]
    #7218724 - 07/24/07 03:54 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

lol, sorry for the confusion man, I'll try and be more clear in future posts. I've pretty much got all the answers I need here, so keep an eye out on my thread in the grow log area to see if the experiment turns out as planned!

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