|
 incomplete
Stranger
Registered: 05/24/07
Posts: 6
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
|
 Re: The evolution of mathematics and reality.  [Re: Rhizoid]
#7217383 - 07/24/07 10:07 AM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Rhizoid said:
Well, the alien could be self-aware and be able to count, but not be able to discriminate between "rock" and "non-rock". In that case the 7 rocks don't exist for him, even though he might be able to count other things to "7". But the 7 rocks still exist in our human objective reality, if there is any chance that we or any beings that share our reality ever gets to perceive the rocks as rocks distinct from non-rocks, and then count them.
Adding to this, it seems to me that in order for the notion of counting to evolve, the organism must be able to differentiate between 'distinct' objects. This is probably trivial though since even plants differentiate between day and night.
Quote:
Endlessness said:
Incomplete: you say that because one cant ´get a 2´, its not objective but only a language... but think about it.. what you are saying is that ´objective reality´ is only the very limited ´range of frequencies´ that we commonly classify as ´material´.. do you really think the universe is limited to that, to our definitions and possibilities of perception?
I wholeheartedly agree that humans only perceive a fraction of the universe around them. And indeed, mathematicians are 'mapping an invisible world.' This invisible world though shouldn't be confused with the physically invisible world. '2' exists in the same world as truth and beauty, a world created inside your mind. Of course, being a good skeptic, I can't flat out deny that '2' exists objectively somewhere, but if it does it might as well be heaven that we've plucked it out of.
Quote:
To me experience shows the universe has a range of frequencies much beyond what we and our instruments can perceive.. and language doesnt mean it´s not ´true´ and only ´subjective´, if you consider language a bit differently.. Language is interaction, and the universe is based on the interaction of all it´s parts, the reciprocal common maintenance of everything existing.. Universe IS language, in a way.
I like the idea of language as interaction, but considering that you can develop your own mathematics (or and other language) by yourself, completely isolated... is interaction necessary for language? Perhaps it's the case that interaction is language? Everything in the universe that interacts does so according to some protocol. So maybe mathematics is how we have translated the language of the universe.
And I too have overvalued intellect in the past. When one sees math for what it is one finds that there is just as much truth in dance.
|
Rhizoid
carbon unit
Registered: 01/22/00
Posts: 1,739
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 2 months, 5 days
|
Re: The evolution of mathematics and reality. [Re: incomplete]
#7217654 - 07/24/07 11:37 AM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
incomplete said:
Adding to this, it seems to me that in order for the notion of counting to evolve, the organism must be able to differentiate between 'distinct' objects. This is probably trivial though since even plants differentiate between day and night.
This raises an interesting question: What makes an object "distinct"?
A rock surrounded by dirt and air is just a certain type of pattern in a sea of electrons, protons, and neutrons. You need to have sense organs or measuring instruments that can recognize that type of pattern in order to perceive it. An alien who is made of some sort of hypothetical exotic matter that interacts poorly with ordinary matter could very well have failed to make the distinction between rock and non-rock, and yet be able to identify and count other types of objects.
|
|
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order
Edit 
Reply 
1 2 all )
Anonymous
Event_Horizon
Deiymiyan
exclusive58
freddurgan
SkorpivoMusterion