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Stranger ![]() Registered: 05/23/07 Posts: 383 |
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Quote: Dont know what you mean exactly Diploid, but the thunderbolt crew mention that our sun has a surface temp of about 6ooodegrees and a atmospheric temp of about 20.000degrees (as i recall) which does not they say correlate with the sun as a nuclear furnace but does correlate with the sun being a site of intense electronic discharge .. They also mention in the talkback radio discussion that red stars thought to have been far away were infact not so far away but were cooler temp stars and showed in the red spectrum .. first i've heard of it but interesting theory i reckon . Quote: To be honest i dont understand that , tho i guess its pretty straight forward stuff once explained . Would have thought that red-shifting was only with regard to radiation that was moving away in theory and surely everything on this side of the supposed point of origin of the bigbang location would be moving towards us not away thus not re-shifting , but as i say i dont profess to understanding that issue . Perhaps you can explain ? -------------------- It's a beautiful lie .. It's a perfect denial . Such a beautiful lie to believe in So beautiful, beautiful it makes me .. Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus! Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight. Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.
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J♠ Registered: 04/17/01 Posts: 20,815 Loc: Ontario, Canada |
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Dont know what you mean exactly Diploid, but the thunderbolt crew mention that our sun has a surface temp of about 6ooodegrees and a atmospheric temp of about 20.000degrees (as i recall) which does not they say correlate with the sun as a nuclear furnace but does correlate with the sun being a site of intense electronic discharge ..
Actually the chromosphere reaches temperatures of about one million degrees. This has to do with the transition of helium nuclei to ions, and the escape of radiation. -------------------- But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Stranger ![]() Registered: 05/23/07 Posts: 383 |
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Sounds good to me trendel.. cheers
Here is a letter regarding the concerns some have about the BigBang (BB) theory .. Quote: -------------------- It's a beautiful lie .. It's a perfect denial . Such a beautiful lie to believe in So beautiful, beautiful it makes me .. Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus! Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight. Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.
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Cuban Registered: 01/09/03 Posts: 19,274 Loc: Rabbit Hole |
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Would have thought that red-shifting was only with regard to radiation that was moving away in theory and surely everything on this side
Space itself is 'stretching', for lack of a better word. Thinking in terms of "this side of where the Big Bang happened" is naive physics that has been known to be incorrect for many decades. If your Thunderbolt boys are describing the universe that way, they're at about half way though high school physics and have no business second guessing Einstein or Hawking. -------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Cuban Registered: 01/09/03 Posts: 19,274 Loc: Rabbit Hole |
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But the big bang theory can't survive without these fudge factors.
That's right, and it's one reason we're building the Large Hadron Collider and other experiments in high energy physics to find these things that have never been observed before. We'll know for sure in a few more years, but dismissing the Big Bang Theory and all the evidence we DO currently have is way jumping the gun. Big Bang might be refuted some day, and that would be a pretty cool and surprising result, but from what we know so far and the new things we're learning every day, it doesn't seem likely. -------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Stranger ![]() Registered: 05/23/07 Posts: 383 |
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Quote: oK .. i find the BB discussion interesting myself too but considering the subject of this thread it seems best to follow std forum procedure and discuss these specific matters in a thread dedicated to them . So without further Adue i will start a new thread on the subject .. BTW personally i thought you would be more interested in tackling the more specific issues of the nature of comets and other close world events where more evidence can be discussed <shrug> -------------------- It's a beautiful lie .. It's a perfect denial . Such a beautiful lie to believe in So beautiful, beautiful it makes me .. Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus! Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight. Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.
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cyanidepoisoning ![]() Registered: 12/13/05 Posts: 4,472 Loc: N.W.T. |
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Cleen, read a brief history of time by stephen hawking.. its a good book.
As planets move farther away from us the EMR they emit in our direction is slightly elongated due to the doppler effect. It was estimated that the radiation produced at the time of the big bang (some of which is still making its way to our planet) will have turned into microwaves which can be detected by specialized antenae. These microwaves have been found everywhere. From this, and the velocities of the planets giving off radiation physicists were able to estimate how long ago the big bang should have occured. Can someone correct me on this if ive got it wrong? Im not a physics nut and some of the jargon flies over my head sometimes.
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Stranger ![]() Registered: 05/23/07 Posts: 383 |
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Quote: -------------------- It's a beautiful lie .. It's a perfect denial . Such a beautiful lie to believe in So beautiful, beautiful it makes me .. Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus! Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight. Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.
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Cuban Registered: 01/09/03 Posts: 19,274 Loc: Rabbit Hole |
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this a is still a democracy and all citizens have a right to their opinion
I never said otherwise. You can make any kind of kooky unsuported claims you like. Hell, you can even say that in 2012 reptilians from the Orion Nebula will invade the Earth. But that won't make it true. ![]() why you are calling on me to explain Because you're the one making claims that go contrary to a thousand years of scientific evidence. If you're going to do that in a science forum, you better be able to back it up with more than links to nut job web sites. How about a link to a peer-reviewed science journal instead of a Google video? That would make me sit up and listen. i must say its a rather immature position to take Wasn't it you who said Einstein and Hawking are wrong and when DieCommie asked you what exactly they're wrong about, you replied with: Quote: You're blindly buying into your pet anti-establishment dogma group, Thunderbolts, who is not a group of scientists but a video production company. And you reject Einstein and Hawking, but you can't even tell us what Einstein and Hawking said or what you disagree with. And you're calling ME immature? -------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Cuban Registered: 01/09/03 Posts: 19,274 Loc: Rabbit Hole |
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While I'm at it, let's take a look at this Thunderbolt team you're so impressed with:
From their web at: http://www.thunderbolts.info/tea Amy Acheson (1946 - 2005) Editor of the electronic newsletter THOTH for several years and author of numerous articles. An amateur astronomer, she was best known for her accurate and persuasive summaries of the work of Halton Arp and Wallace Thornhill. When Amy died in July 2005, the Thunderbolts team lost one of its most distinguished members. Nope, a writer is not a scientist. Mel Acheson With university training in astronomy, his wit and insight will give you both a chuckle and something to think about. His editorials were a regular feature in the electronic newsletter THOTH. He is now a regular contributor to the Thunderbolts Picture of the Day (TPOD) "University training in astronomy" translates into "He took a 100 class once". Not a scientist. Michael Armstrong Long-time student of "catastrophism," and lecturer on the Electric Universe, he is publisher/producer of video and newsletter work on the science of catastrophics and the Electric Universe. Nope, a publisher is not a scientist. Dwardu Cardona A premier comparative mythologist, catastrophist researcher, and author of numerous articles on the roots of world mythology, he is currently the editor of "AEON, A Journal of Myth, Science, and Ancient History" and author of the recently-released book, "God Star." "Comparative mythologist"?? ROFL Ev Cochrane A comparative mythologist with a deep interest in the cosmic symbols of early cultures. He is currently publisher of "AEON, A Journal of Myth, Science, and Ancient History." He has published two books Martian Metamorphoses, and The Many Faces of Venus. Ditto. Donald Scott Retired professor of electrical engineering at the University of Massachusetts/Amherst, known for his cogent presentations on the "electric sun." In addition to his lectures, he has been emcee of several conferences on cosmic catastrophe." Author of An Introduction to Circuit Analysis — A Systems Approach. Don Scott website: www.electric-cosmos.org An engineer. Smart guy. Turns out I actually know him. He's an amateur astronomer I've run into before because I am one too. See? I shot these pics: But he's never published anything that refutes Einstein, Hawking, or even Newton. He does sell books, which figures why he's in bed with the Thunderbolt Video Production company. David Talbott Comparative mythologist whose work offers a radical new vantage point on the origin of ancient cultural themes and symbols. His research has been the primary catalyst behind the "Saturn Model," and is the subject of the feature documentary, "Remembering the End of the World." Author of The Saturn Myth and co-author (with Wallace Thornhill) of Thunderbolts of the Gods. Another "comparative mythologist", whatever that means. He isn't a scientist, but he does sell lots of videos. Wallace Thornhill Australian physicist. His work on "The Electric Universe" provides the broadest synthesis of electrical principles to date. It offers a new vantage point on solar system history, planetary cratering and scarring, the dynamics of the sun, and the nature of galaxies. Wal is a senior editor for the Picture of the Day feature on www.thunderbolts.info. His website is: www.holoscience.com Wow, someone with a real physics degree. Finally. He never finished his masters though, let alone a PhD. Until he finishes school, he's in no position to refute his teachers. Ian Tresman Long-time planetary catastrophist and contributor to numerous Internet forums and resources. For many years he has been a principal in the British "Society for Interdisciplinary Studies," a forum for discussion of catastrophist research. A "planetary catastrophist"! NOW I'm impressed! These are the people whose word you take on faith over the likes of Einstein and Hawking??? WTF? -------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Stranger ![]() Registered: 05/23/07 Posts: 383 |
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Faith .. no . just basic intuitive common sense .
The fact of the matter is i have long held differences of opinion from einsteins works and hawkings style , i just assumed i was an isolated island of difference of opinion , and am relieved to find that others share these concerns . I just find that the deductions of the principles i find intuitively highly questionable demonstrate certain apparant absudities especilly in terms of reductions to the abusrd nice photos btw,, i'd really enjoy to be able to do that - greatwork !!
-------------------- It's a beautiful lie .. It's a perfect denial . Such a beautiful lie to believe in So beautiful, beautiful it makes me .. Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus! Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight. Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.
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Registered: 12/11/03 Posts: 29,258 |
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Diploid FTW ![]() edit: Quote:wow. I am certainly no master of the English language, but I think I can make out from this that you dont believe Einstein because it goes against your intuition? Is that correct? Edited by Qubit (07/25/07 10:40 PM)
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Cuban Registered: 01/09/03 Posts: 19,274 Loc: Rabbit Hole |
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Faith .. no . just basic intuitive common sense
Yes, it's faith. It's faith because you blindly accept what they say even though they can't defend their position with a real science paper. Instead, all they do is sell mumbo jumbo new age videos to gullible people who know nothing about physics and who are incapable of enough critical thought to wonder why no peer-reviewed science journal even acknowledges them. -------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Stranger ![]() Registered: 05/23/07 Posts: 383 |
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Quote: Personally yes thats a fair assumption , i read stuff by einstein and i just dont understand why people think its all that important . His thought experiments seems like fools gold tome , i just turn away from it because i dont like it . There are reasns for this underlying my opinions but i am not the sort of person who introspects like that to diagnose exactly why i think someone else is aparently misguided . Thats the beauty of forums and discussions imo in that these theings can be expanded upon in a way that is natural . I have no doubts as yet as to the validity of my position , and becoming aware of the alternate opinions and their scientific and actual evidential basis is significant . Its not at heart a discussion about me or you or any other personality ..its a discussion of scientific validity which is the basis of all scientific progress . And it is ultimately a discussion of, i believe, the actual living process of scientific revolution . -------------------- It's a beautiful lie .. It's a perfect denial . Such a beautiful lie to believe in So beautiful, beautiful it makes me .. Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus! Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight. Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.
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Stranger ![]() Registered: 05/23/07 Posts: 383 |
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Quote: I believe they can defend their position with a scientific paper, but scientific papers are only a reflection of evidence not a proof of it. Ultimately the proof of a thing is not in the number of scientific publications but in the reality of the thing and the relative faults of each explanation given. Its intuitive common sense in my view from my perspective in general but the discussion isn't about me . Its a discussion of actuality and our approximations of it and the faults that necessarily lie within the process of approximation . Is there any single matter of evidence relating to the Electric Universe theory that you believe actually proves it is false Diploid? -------------------- It's a beautiful lie .. It's a perfect denial . Such a beautiful lie to believe in So beautiful, beautiful it makes me .. Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus! Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight. Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.
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Error: divide byzero Registered: 04/27/01 Posts: 23,480 Loc: Caribbean Last seen: 2 months, 19 days |
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> Another "comparative mythologist", whatever that means.
English major (with an inflated sense of self-titlement). -------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Error: divide byzero Registered: 04/27/01 Posts: 23,480 Loc: Caribbean Last seen: 2 months, 19 days |
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> Its intuitive common sense
Science (or more accurately, nature) is seldom intuitive to common sense. > but scientific papers are only a reflection of evidence not a proof of it. We had this discussion on the forum before, a few years ago. The word "proof" has a different "strength" in all three of common usage, scientific usage, and mathematical usage. In science, very seldom does "proof" mean "absolute". -------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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It's about theFL Registered: 02/25/07 Posts: 506 Last seen: 16 years, 7 days |
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seriously dude. If what you say is supported by strong evidence, well, just wait, it will be accepted by the scientific community...I have hmmm faith, in the scientific community.
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Stranger ![]() Registered: 05/23/07 Posts: 383 |
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Quote: Well technically the laws of physics would have to pre-exist the matter wouldn't they .. fits so nicely with the creationist model the laws being created perhaps a day or two before the material , which is fine especially if you accept another a-priori being that this whole dimension of reality was created especially for the occassion . i.e gods behind the scenes setting the whole thing up . But is it actually supported by the evidence they say it is - i dunno , it just seems a bit too thin and suspicious to me . -------------------- It's a beautiful lie .. It's a perfect denial . Such a beautiful lie to believe in So beautiful, beautiful it makes me .. Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus! Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight. Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.
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Stranger ![]() Registered: 05/23/07 Posts: 383 |
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24 December 2006
The Electric Sky—Interview with the author Q: Can you tell us in just a couple of sentences the most important ideas in Plasma Cosmology. A: Interplanetary space, interstellar space, and intergalactic space are all filled with ions and electrons (electric charges) – we call this Plasma. Our space probes have measured it. Radio telescopes tell us there are vast magnetic fields there too – and long filaments of moving charges (electric currents). These filaments make up a vast stringy spaghetti-like structure of interconnected paths upon which stars and galaxies form and which are surrounded by magnetic fields. The electromagnetic forces that exist in this environment vastly overpower gravitational forces. Q: So you are saying that stars and planets are somehow formed by electric currents? What about the “accretion disks” that astronomers say condense down into stars and planets. A: These long filaments are called “Birkeland currents” and they have a property of being able to squeeze clouds of matter together - this is called the “z-pinch” effect. It’s not magic – it is a well-documented phenomenon that we see in the laboratory. On the other hand, “accretion disks” are one of those off-the-cuff inventions thrown out by astronomers to a gullible public. You can’t make accretion disks accrete in lab experiments or in computer simulations. If our solar system is the result of an “accretion disk” then answer this question: Neptune’s moon Triton travels “backward” in its orbit around Neptune. In other words, if we look down on the north poles of both Neptune and Triton, the planet rotates in the usual counter-clockwise direction, but its moon travels clockwise in its orbit. Clearly, if both these bodies were formed from the same rotating “accretion disk,” their angular momentums should not be in opposite directions. At least five of the smallest moons of Jupiter also exhibit this same “strange” behavior. Venus rotates backwards on its axis. How did it get that motion from an accretion disk that made all the other planets rotate the other way? And how can a swirling cloud of dust and matter "accrete" (get smaller)? Such a shrinking process would increase its rotational velocity - just like a twirling ice skater who brings her arms in closer to her body in order to spin faster. Q: Have plasma cosmologists such as you made any predictions that have been successful? Astronomers have made lots of successful predictions. A: Oh really? Name one. They claim they have. But they haven’t. Take for example the results of helioseismology – astronomers claim they have “probed the Sun” and found that their models “predict” the oscillations and resonances occurring in the Sun with fantastic accuracy. Not true. First, nobody can “probe” the Sun. We can’t get at it – it’s too hot. What astronomers did is sit here on Earth and observe fluctuations in the light coming from the Sun. They then made up a set of mathematical equations that produces the same sort of oscillating signal. It is easy to make up the mathematical model AFTER you see the data. That’s not a prediction. If their equation has enough terms they can get 100% correspondence with the data. That’s a posteriori DESCRIPTION not a PREDICTION. Do you remember the “Deep Impact” experiment a year or so ago – NASA threw a block of copper into a comet. They said this head-on collision was going to produce a crater on the comet and the photographs they would take of the shape of this new crater were going to tell us what the comet was made of. A colleague of mine, Wal Thornhill, made a real prediction: Because of the properties of the plasma surrounding the Sun (sometimes called the “solar wind”) Wal suggested that the onrushing comet would be at a different voltage from the block of copper. Therefore, just before the physical collision, there would be a spark discharge, a flash that would precede the main collision. This is exactly what happened. NASA said “What you see is something really surprising”. They could not explain it. The reaction of mainstream astrophysics – even after Thornhill’s prediction had been so singularly correct, so on the mark – was an abrupt, off-hand rejection: “It’s complete cobblers,” said Dr. David Hughes, comet expert and professor of astrophysics at Britain’s University of Sheffield. “Absolute balderdash. Electricity on the surface of a comet? Forget about it. It’s not a contender.” Those who refuse to learn are doomed to continuing ignorance. In 1996 the European Space Agency’s ROSAT satellite observed x-rays being emitted from Comet Hyakutake. Astronomers were again “surprised.” A non-electrical “dusty snow-ball” would not do that. But x-rays are expected from a high-voltage double layer such as would enclose a comet’s plasma sheath. So we are gaining more and more evidence that comets are good examples of an electrical phenomenon – mainstream astronomers not only do not believe it – they get downright insulting to anyone who mentions the idea. How does your dentist produce x-rays? Does he throw snowballs around his office? Q: Well, given your feelings about accepted astronomical theories, what do you think about the Big Bang? A: Let me return the compliment – It’s complete cobblers, it’s balderdash. One of the fundamental assumptions on which the Big Bang hypothesis is based is that if light coming from an object in deep space exhibits a property called “redshift”, then this object must be extremely distant and also be going away from us very rapidly. They say they observe this very often and this is why the universe is expanding away from the point where the Bang happened. A very well-known astronomer (he was Edwin Hubble’s assistant), Halton C. Arp, has taken dozens of images of objects that have very different redshift values that are connected together. If they are physically connected by bridges of matter, then they cannot be at vastly different distances from us. He even has an image of a high redshift quasar that is in front of a low redshift galaxy. If the high redshift object is closer to us than the low redshift galaxy, then that disproves the “redshift = distance” basis of the Big Bang. There are many other deficiencies in the Big Bang theory. The density of the universe predicted by the BB theory, when the density of light elements like lithium, helium and deuterium are considered, are self contradictory. Big Bang proponents like to say the measured temperature of the Cosmic Background Radiation proves the BB Theory. What they don’t tell you is that one of the most famous BB proponents, George Gamov, predicted that the temperature of the CMB would be 50 Kelvin. Many other estimates in the range 2.8 to 7 Kelvin had already been made by non-BB astrophysicists. When the temperature was finally determined (3Kelvin), Big Bangers immediately claimed that was what they "had said all along." It wasn’t. That is a lie. Everyone else had gotten closer to the right answer – their guess was 16 times too large. For the BB to be correct, 96% of the matter in the universe has to be invisible and not measurable. A cosmology that leaves 96% of the universe unexplained is something less than a riotous success. Q: We often hear about Missing Matter and Dark Energy. What are they? A: They are examples of those “invented fictional entities” I mentioned. • Missing matter was invented because there isn’t enough real matter in the outer reaches of galaxies to account for how they rotate if the only mechanism you are willing to consider is gravity. • Dark Energy is a force that “has to exist” if the expansion of the universe is to be explainable by Einstein’s General Relativity. • WIMPs, MACHOs, neutron stars, and the “strings” in String Theory are similar fabrications. All of these are Fictional Ad hoc Inventions Repeatedly Invoked in Efforts to Defend Untenable Scientific Theories – FAIRIE DUST. -------------------- It's a beautiful lie .. It's a perfect denial . Such a beautiful lie to believe in So beautiful, beautiful it makes me .. Nikopol: You piece of shit! Your objectives are shit. Your filthy rapist god ambitions are shit. You're full of shit, Horus! Horus: Coming from a human, remarks like that don't carry much weight. Nikopol: But all that it is not worth of prodigy of your saliva, Jill.
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