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Offlineldk
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may have messed up casing -- can this be salvaged?
    #7197735 - 07/19/07 12:43 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Let's say 3 small walmart tubs and one big one were used to hold rye jars spawned to Mycopath's excellent hpoo/straw substrate, with the result of 100% colonization.

Before it was known that coir is no longer recommended as a casing layer, let's say these tubs were all cased with < 1/4th depth coir (initially cleaned with a low boil for 15 minutes), and then once mycelium was poking out in several places, temps were dropped from 82+ down to 74, light was introduced >12 hours per day, and all placed into a humid (though probably not fanned enough) environment.

If for two days in the FC, the casing layer has somewhat dried (where there isn't yet mycelium), and after it was learned that easily-obtained vermiculite + peat is a much better casing, would it be wise to try to remove the remaining uncolonized coir, create a new verm/peat casing, raise temps, remove light, and wait for colonization of that new casing before going back into the FC?

or is it better to just try to let it continue as is, with fanning and no misting in the cooler FC? Is misting onto the surface is a good idea (it's coir with some colonization, remember)? Is it better to perhaps add a very thin layer of another casing and mist that?

TIA

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InvisibleGoodbyeOrb
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Re: may have messed up casing -- can this be salvaged? [Re: ldk]
    #7197749 - 07/19/07 12:45 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

COIR NO LONGER RECOMMENDED AS A CASING???

I missed that, can you post subsequent references so i can read up?

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Offlineroyer
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Re: may have messed up casing -- can this be salvaged? [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #7197755 - 07/19/07 12:47 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

i agree with ^^^^

i still use a coir/verm


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if you have any questions please feel free to pm me , thx :-)

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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: may have messed up casing -- can this be salvaged? [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #7197791 - 07/19/07 12:55 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Coir is nutritious, casing layers that are nutritious can cause overlay.  That's the big reason why coir isn't a good casing layer... of course a lot of people still swear by it.

A couple searches with RogerRabbit as the author and "coir too nutritious" should narrow in the relevant postings.

---
To the original poster.

You're already on the way towards initiating pinning so whatever you do, don't try to incubate again.  Secondly, next time you incubate, don't.  Room temps, although slightly slower, are much less contaminate friendly and therefore, um, less contaminates happen during colonization.

OK, back to your problem.  You have two options. 

1. You can let it go and complete colonizing the coir and supplement the humidification until you're in the 92-97% percentage, and it will pin without a casing layer.  The raised humidity is important because part of the purpose of a casing layer is to be a "humidity blanket" to keep it from drying out.

2. Scrape, dunk and re-case with a 50/50 verm/peat.  The thing to keep in mind here is that the mycelium is already put forth a lot of energy to colonize that and scraping it back is going to shock it a bit.  Hyphae would tell you that typically, it's almost as bad as scraping off the first flush and throwing it out.

Either way you're final yeilds will be reduced, but it's worth the lesson learned.  Now you just need to decide which is easier for you.  Scrape, dunk, pasteurize new casing that you mixed up... or be responsible for the increased humidification requirements.

:justdontknow:

As always, YMMV...


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:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.

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OfflineMadFairytale
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Re: may have messed up casing -- can this be salvaged? [Re: royer]
    #7197795 - 07/19/07 12:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Is the only problem your having with your current casing material is that it could possibly be dry?


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A "hello" to the board.

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Offlineaspore
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Re: may have messed up casing -- can this be salvaged? [Re: royer]
    #7197798 - 07/19/07 12:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

you can use it, it's just more likely to get contams I think.


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c        l        i      c        k        m        e

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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: may have messed up casing -- can this be salvaged? [Re: mycocurious]
    #7197802 - 07/19/07 12:56 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Oh, one of the other reasons it's not recommended is because nutritious casing layers tend to "catch" contaminates a little easier as there's something for the contaminate to initially feed on.

IIRC, that is...


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:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.

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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Re: may have messed up casing -- can this be salvaged? [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #7197812 - 07/19/07 12:59 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

GoodbyeOrb said:
COIR NO LONGER RECOMMENDED AS A CASING???

I missed that, can you post subsequent references so i can read up?




Lots of us here don't use it, and there are many threads recommending it be used as a substrate instead of a casing, because the mycelium just LOVES to colonize it. As a casing, I don't think it holds a candle to 50/50.

Back to the question, I would recommend that the poster fruit that substrate as is, and save the 50/50 mix for the next one.


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Offlineldk
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Re: may have messed up casing -- can this be salvaged? [Re: royer]
    #7197815 - 07/19/07 01:00 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/6068013

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5478339#5478339

BTW -- for a couple of the small (theoretical) tubs, it looks like some of the uncolonized coir is a bit wet. Perhaps the tub should be tapped on its side to remove some of this mud? The tub with the dryest uncolonized coir actually looks like it might have a few tiny pins coming in.

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InvisibleGoodbyeOrb
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Re: may have messed up casing -- can this be salvaged? [Re: simplemachine]
    #7197818 - 07/19/07 01:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

50/50 peat verm, right?

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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Re: may have messed up casing -- can this be salvaged? [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #7197823 - 07/19/07 01:01 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Yup.


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Offlineldk
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Re: may have messed up casing -- can this be salvaged? [Re: ldk]
    #7197829 - 07/19/07 01:03 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

and one more observation -- the casing of the large tub is much more colonized than the small ones. I don't know if this means there will be overlay or not..

if nothing happens for the smaller, wetter ones, do you think fruiting should be done as though they were cakes (dump out the very healthy colonized mass to sit upsidedown)?

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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Re: may have messed up casing -- can this be salvaged? [Re: simplemachine]
    #7197839 - 07/19/07 01:05 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

I would leave it in the tray...If they're totally soaked from over-misting or something, you can try carefully pouring the excess water off.


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InvisibleGoodbyeOrb
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Re: may have messed up casing -- can this be salvaged? [Re: simplemachine]
    #7197840 - 07/19/07 01:05 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

what kinda peat are you using?

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OfflineMadFairytale
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Re: may have messed up casing -- can this be salvaged? [Re: ldk]
    #7197853 - 07/19/07 01:08 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Be careful with your moisture. If you keep it too wet, its like asking for trouble. And I agree with "simplemachine" on the fruiting as is.


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A "hello" to the board.

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Offlineldk
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Re: may have messed up casing -- can this be salvaged? [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #7197858 - 07/19/07 01:09 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

no peat used on this one... :/  just coir for the casing.

Also no misting was done, but two of the smaller tubs got slightly wetter coir.  The others are mostly colonized or not so much but have dryer coir casing, visibly lighter brown in color.  Wet perlight is around the tubs to assist in humidity.

Thanks for your answers on this (theoretical) situation! :smile:

Edited by ldk (07/19/07 01:10 PM)

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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Re: may have messed up casing -- can this be salvaged? [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #7197868 - 07/19/07 01:13 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

@Idk - He is talking to me...See the RE: simplemachine?

@ GoodbyeOrb - Schultz Canadian sphagnum peat moss from Lowes.


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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: may have messed up casing -- can this be salvaged? [Re: GoodbyeOrb]
    #7197870 - 07/19/07 01:14 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Peat moss, not sphagnum moss (can't spell it) that absolutely won't work.

For what it's worth, Jiffy Mix (peat,verm,ph balanced) is pretty a dead perfect premixed casing layer for you, if you're willing to pay the overhead for it. (small grows it's perfect, IMHO)


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.

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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Re: may have messed up casing -- can this be salvaged? [Re: mycocurious]
    #7197882 - 07/19/07 01:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mycocurious said:
Peat moss, not sphagnum moss (can't spell it) that absolutely won't work.




Really? Thats what the bags I've been using for months say...

Whats the difference between Sphagnum peat moss and peat moss?


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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: may have messed up casing -- can this be salvaged? [Re: mycocurious]
    #7197884 - 07/19/07 01:17 PM (17 years, 5 months ago)

For the two wetter tubs, if you can see water pooling, yes, drain it. If it looks super-saturated, draw back your humidification on those tubs for a while and increase the filtered-air exchange over them and they'll dry back out naturally and they should be fine.

Sounds like the whole coir batch was way too wet to begin with, but you'll figure out field capacity with experience. To fruit, don't leave them as they are and you'll be fine... search out "hyphae's pinning strategy" and review the part about misting to the point of near-saturation and follow that as closely as possible.

And make sure if you're using a mister that it's a pump/pressurized type and spray above the tub, not at it. Let the mist naturally fall onto the tubs.


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.

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