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OfflineBigAlHux
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Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this shit?
    #7191058 - 07/18/07 01:16 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Wtf is going on in the world? It is quite clear that shrooms, lsd, mdma, can allow one to experience telepathy. This, no doubt, could be proven in a lab. who is doing research? why hasn't it been proven? This is pretty important shit people, considering modern physics says it can't happen.


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the true profession of man is to find his way to himself - Herman Hesse

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OfflinechairmanK
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7191159 - 07/18/07 01:39 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Telepathy? Do you really believe that you have telepathic powers when you are tripping? Oh dear. This kind of talk is the reason why some psychiatrists describe these drugs as "psychotomimetic".

There is no statement in modern science that telepathy is impossible, in the same way that faster-than-light information transmission is theoretically impossible. Rather, nobody has proposed a plausible mechanism for telepathy. In other words, the consensus statement is, "I don't understand how telepathy could possibly work" instead of "telepathy can not happen". There's a significant epistemological difference.

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OfflineBigAlHux
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: chairmanK]
    #7191172 - 07/18/07 01:44 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

yes, you're right. there is a difference. still, in this forum your clever ass is in the minority my friend. i have experienced it. i think it happens even when not tripping, just that it becomes more pronounced when one is tripping. i think it can be proven, as do many others. so, while you and your psychiatrist buddies are inventing new words and patting each other on the back for your mutual brilliance, i'm looking for evidnce which should be easy to find. what perplexes me is how easy it should be yet hasn't been.


--------------------
the true profession of man is to find his way to himself - Herman Hesse

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OfflineBigAlHux
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: chairmanK]
    #7191242 - 07/18/07 02:27 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

in fact, i could prove it to you right now: you're currently thinking about how brilliant and important you are. see.


--------------------
the true profession of man is to find his way to himself - Herman Hesse

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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,377
Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7191491 - 07/18/07 04:44 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

This is because telepathy hasn't been conclusively proven.

Take note of the types of telepathy people usually report. Usually people will say: "omfg, it was like were connected, I could just feel what he/she was feeling", or "we definetly thought the same thing".

No one has ever reported: "I transmitted a 9 digit number to my friend" or "my friend successfully identified 6 decks of cards in row and I was flipping them in the adjacent room".

To those that have made such claims, they usually cannot do so once they are subject to strict laboratory conditions.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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OfflineJon

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: badchad]
    #7191504 - 07/18/07 05:00 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe it isnt telepathy, rather its a rationale that individuals develop in variable stages of our life that most of us are born unaware of. Look at John Edwards for example.

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Offlineboomer q
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: Jon]
    #7191799 - 07/18/07 07:17 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

what am i thinking about right now?  feel free to trip in order to make it happen.....but ill bet you dollars to doughnuts that you cant


what kind of proof would you look for in a laboratory setting?  have a scientist think of thinkings and then ask someone on shrooms what the scientist is thinking?  im sure your very confident in your telepathic ability, but to call it science it has to be reproducable.

they actually do studies on this kind of thinking though, they lock someone in a room with a random number generator...well, maybe not lock em in there, but they ask the person to think of one event rather than the other, like try to make there be more ones than zeros in the next set of a thousand random 1s and 0s, and they found that it actually does work a good percentage of the time.  they also found that some types of people are better at it than others, i think they said classically trained musicians are the best at it.........but we're still way off

:courtjester:


--------------------
I got bags of funk and i sell em by the tons

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OfflineBard
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: boomer q]
    #7191953 - 07/18/07 08:39 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

As far as I know, telepathy is tested in lab conditions, without psychedelics, and is proven. At least it is proven, that there is something...

I cannot give you sources, but I think telepathy is the only paranormal activity which is scientifically proven. But I don't think that there is any point in testing it under psychedelics... Conducting experiments under the influence... It's a waste of good acid/mushrooms/whatever... :cool:


--------------------
So dreaming let's you know reality exists.



I don't belive. I fear.

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OfflineAmber_Glow
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this shit? [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7192141 - 07/18/07 09:48 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

"communication between minds by some means other than sensory perception"

"communication between minds by some means other than sensory perception"

From dictionary.com.

These are pretty weak definitions. Useless really. I don't think you can expect to prove anything that isn't even really defined. I think the main problem is the crude confining of "sensory perceptions" but that would be an argument for the P&S... Anyway telepathy as it is currently defined is really just a label for "communication that only exists in the minds of the insane".

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OfflinePolyrhythmanaut
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7192182 - 07/18/07 10:06 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BigAlHux said:
in fact, i could prove it to you right now:  you're currently thinking about how brilliant and important you are.  see.




fucking brilliant!  :cheers:

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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7192286 - 07/18/07 10:47 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

This has actually been done before, many times by many different people I am sure, as well. I can't recall which book I was reading it in the other day, I think it was the Adventure of Self Discovery by Stan Grohf, but a guy took LSD and then worked on one of those shape guessing games where the shape is chosen by someone in another room and the person on LSD makes their choice. At the beginning of the experiment, before the LSD had taken effect, his answers were all over the place. When the LSD had taken effect, his answers became something like 30-40% correct. The researcher himself actually got scared near the end and started to give wrong answers, even though he knew he was still guessing right initially. He was scared of the consequences. Nothing ever came of it.

In the end these substances might give a glimpse into telepathy and other mystical things, but they are just plain too chaotic to harness.


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!

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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: mecreateme]
    #7192301 - 07/18/07 10:53 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

yep it has been proven in a lab back in the 60's or something.
I read about it in the book "The Holographic Universe"

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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: cpw1971]
    #7192373 - 07/18/07 11:13 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

uhhh ok sure...

Care to give any details?


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!

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InvisiblecoAsTal
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: mecreateme]
    #7193437 - 07/18/07 04:39 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Telepathy is 100% bullshit.

Anyone who says otherwise is also 100% bullshit.

read this

Quote:

How do you prove photography to a blind man?

That was the question I was asked: how would you prove to a blind man, that photography exists?

I knew what he was getting at. We had been discussing psychics. He was a firm believer in psychic powers, had had psychic experiences, and regularly visited a psychic. His point was, since I had not experienced psychic powers, I would never be able to believe in what he “knew” to be true. You could never prove to a blind man that photography exists, and likewise no one would ever be able to demonstrate to me that psychic powers were real.

It took me about ten seconds to think of a way to show he was wrong. This is what I said. Give the blind man a camera, a tripod and a remote shutter release. (Ideally the camera is a Polaroid, or a digital with an instant picture facility.) Everyone leaves the room but the blind man. He takes a picture of himself, and holds up a number of fingers (1 to 5) at random. The sighted person comes back into the room, looks at the picture and says “you were holding up X fingers”. If he gets the right number, and continues to do so every time this experiment is performed, the blind man will eventually conclude that photography is real. Technically, he will conclude the hypothesis that “a camera can record a visual image”, might be true.

He will want to repeat the experiment with different rooms and different sighted people. He will want to tighten his controls to make sure no one can see through the window or the keyhole. He will want other blind friends of his to do the same experiment successfully. But essentially, he will be convinced by this method.

The believer went quiet. (It must be annoying when your analogy is turned against you.) But I decided to push it further. I wanted to ask him some questions.

My first question was, if you did this 1,000 times, and the sighted person got the correct number of fingers (say) 225 times out of 1,000 (where pure chance would be 200 times), would the blind man believe that this “anomaly” was proof of photography? Wouldn’t he expect nearly 1,000 correct out of 1,000? What if when the controls were tightened, the result was reduced to close to 200 correct – pure chance? What if the sighted person was found to have cheated?

What if the blind man had to do a drawing and hold it up in front of the camera, instead of his fingers? The sighted person had to write down what he thought the drawing was of, and then a judge got to grade the description based on the photograph of the drawing? Say the blind man drew a circle and the sighted person thought it was a tree, and the judge rated that 7 out of 10 because a tree is roughly circular? Would the blind man be convinced?

What if the blind man had to select one drawing from four “targets” and hold it up in front of the camera, instead of his fingers? The sighted person is shown the four targets and asked to rate the degree to which each matches the one in the photograph. If the sighted person assigns the highest rating to the correct target, it is scored as a "hit." If the sighted person gets a hit, say 35% of the time (when chance would predict 25%), would the blind man be convinced? What if the person running the experiment was in the room when the photo was taken, and prompted the sighted person during the judging process - would the blind man be convinced then? What if numerous other experimental errors were noted?

What if a scientific body spent 25 years researching whether sighted people could guess how many fingers blind people were holding up in front of a camera, but concluded that there is ultimately very little, if any data that support the hypothesis that they can?

What if a conjuror offered one million dollars for any sighted person who could successfully perform the five finger test, but no one was able to do it?

Wouldn’t the blind man say to all this, “why can’t you just tell me how many fingers I’m holding up?”

The guy didn’t want to answer. He conceded his analogy was about me not having had a psychic experience. But apparently the analogy didn’t apply if I turned it around to his beliefs.

And they say skeptics are closed minded.




--------------------
I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination--  John Keats

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OfflineStonedPhilosophr
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: coAsTal]
    #7193548 - 07/18/07 05:01 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

in stanislov grof's book "when the impossible happens" theres a section in the book where he says the aboriginies (the indigenous tribal people of austrailia ((cultural history around 50, 000 years old))) are able to communicate telepathically over long distances or face to face. i think its just a matter of broader states of mind being experienced by hallucinogenic environmental matter, picking up on different mental abilities on a collective level, and expanding and practicing those abilities, strengthening them...and in this case, this culture has been around and intact for about 50 000 years, so id say they had a good amount of time to develop these abilities.

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InvisiblecoAsTal
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: StonedPhilosophr]
    #7193979 - 07/18/07 06:47 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Did you read the above article?

Do you disagree that in the centuries of people claiming this ability to be "self-evident" that there's not one credible experiment that's ever, EVER been produced to prove it's existence?

It's fantasy.

Period.


--------------------
I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination--  John Keats

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Offlinegoodfryfinn
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: coAsTal]
    #7194037 - 07/18/07 07:02 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

haha I love this site. you have the experts and professors etc, and you have people who believe the cartoons are real


--------------------
"mtv makes me wanna smoke crack
fall out of the window and I'm never comin back
mtv makes me wanna get high
can't get a ride no matter how I try
and everything's perfect
and everything's bright
and everyone's perky
and everyone's uptight
I love those videos
I watch 'em all day........"

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InvisibleGrizzyCappy
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: goodfryfinn]
    #7194052 - 07/18/07 07:07 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I don't let myself be sold on anything so quickly, but I also refuse to discount it so quickly.

Take the facts from around us and exrapolate and you can arrive at a theory of telepathy.

Radio Frequencies. Until you have a radio to hear them with, it's impossible to prove they exist.

We need to invent a machine that can map out "frequencies of the mind" as they relate to the electromagnetic presence on earth. It's totally possible that the electricity in our heads can "ride a wave" so to speak of the earths magnetic field, and if lucky, be "recieved" by another.

What do you think is the final explanation for those "possessions" where things fall off walls? Scientists say it's due to higher electrical activity in those people that are psycho, and somehow it can have an effect on the real world.

Am I sold? No. But I am listening.

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Offlinefazdazzle
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7194297 - 07/18/07 07:51 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Well, the norm says it isn't possible. People tweak out if you tell them you believe in aliens (not quite, but yaknow the majority of the population feel as though it's almost taboo to speak of, let alone believe in).

If astral projection and other out of body experiences that thousands upon thousands of people (myself included) have are anywhere near correct, I would definitely give telepathy most of my assurance that it is possible.

As other posters said the route to making this possible is relatively unknown. Pockets of people who claim to be telepaths, tribes, psychics, normal people who are spiritual enough to take any of this seriously...just don't get the message out or a rote way of finding out whether it can or cannot happen.

The people who claim to be able to do this should form groups and practice consistently.

I believe, though, that IF telepathy were possible the ethical implications would be huge. We would have to have an incredibly wise human community to allow this. Hmmm what is George W. thinking now? There would have to be no war, or attempts at overpowering other people.

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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7194301 - 07/18/07 07:52 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

while two of my friends and I have a pretty uncanny ability to know, word for word, what the others are thinking while tripping, this is far from telepathy


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David

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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: demiu5]
    #7194667 - 07/18/07 09:12 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

heres something probably all of you have done and this is close to telepathy in a way........

did you ever walk into a room and just know someone was fighting just by getting certain vibes??? it is the cells of your body communicating to the objects, air ect... in the room.
the cells of your body communicate on a lower level on what the body needs and stuff. new ones are born and old cells die all the time.
perhaps the cells can communicate through electric signals with everything around them. perhaps by thinking the right thoughs that your cells can relay this info with cells of another person and perhaps they can tune in.

Edited by cpw1971 (07/18/07 09:13 PM)

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OfflineBigAlHux
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: coAsTal]
    #7194904 - 07/18/07 09:56 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

coAsTal said:
Telepathy is 100% bullshit.

Anyone who says otherwise is also 100% bullshit.






pretty dogmatic, no? i know it's possible. '100%' anyone who tells me otherwise is, well, bullshit


--------------------
the true profession of man is to find his way to himself - Herman Hesse

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Offlineonlynow
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7194942 - 07/18/07 10:00 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

you are 100% wrong. telapathy does not exist because there is no physical or objective proof. duh!

poor guy.


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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OfflineArcofaJourney
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: onlynow]
    #7195190 - 07/18/07 10:47 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe the term we're all looking for is "non-verbal communication" ? *shrugs*

It's not necessarily "telepathy." i've definitely experienced this phenomenon during tripping, but i think it's just the fact that our communication skills are expanded along with our minds.

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Offlineyageman
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7195311 - 07/18/07 11:09 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BigAlHux said:
in fact, i could prove it to you right now: you're currently thinking about how brilliant and important you are. see.




I dont need to say that you know nothing of what you ask about.

Still though, fuck off asshole.

Find it yourself if you care so damn much.
You dont have a clue how this shit works, and have no place telling someone how important they think they are.

Synchronicity is everywhere, and if you only see so much, I can see why you are such an asshole who doesnt know a damn thing about it..

See, I met you half way, and you have no fucking idea........

Documenting this shit is far beyond me, and how dare you be such a dick about it.

You cant find any of this shit through word and reading.

Give me a fucking break.

You expect someone to tell you how this really works?

Find it yourself when tripping, sober as hell, or in dreams.
I dont fucking care.

Im not saying that I can tell you for sure, but there is something so simple that you are missing out on.

I dont have to believe in esp to meet a friend half way and know exactly what he was about to say.
Call it what you will, and take that shit as far as you can because you will never see it in the same form again after death.

We can see as much as we are capable.............at any given time.

Most of all, dont doubt things you know nothing about.

Dont assume a fucking thing is all I have to say.......

You have no fucking idea how esp relates to the use of psychedelics, and nobody can ever prove this shit to you.

We are only human, and if anyone knew the recipe then many would have read it before.

You need to know your own neurology before you even begin to fuck with what is considered to be esp..................

You can even begin to explain it if you have some linguistic abilities.
You cant document it though.

That stuff is for crazy folks and elves..........

Which do you want to be?

I prefer to have seen some crazy things, and know exactly what im doing.

How does one take on this motive................ Its beyond me, and I* hope its beyond you all.

If its not beyond you, then you have alot to say.

I personally just dont fuck with putting it into words.
You will know synchronicity when you find it.

It will be everywhere, and it may scare the shit out of you.


--------------------
[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.

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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this shit? [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7195327 - 07/18/07 11:11 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

man, what's your name? I don't know, I feel like I'm extremely psychic. Tell me some things, maybe we'll connect, maybe we won't, but it's definately real to some extent, people never look at the sensory mode version of the brain.
PEACE


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Invisiblemecreateme
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: coAsTal]
    #7197164 - 07/19/07 10:50 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I bet your a real fun guy to be around.:rolleyes:


--------------------
No ONE wants to know the ultimate TRUTH, as soon as YOU find IT out, YOU want to forget IT.

You are everything's way of feeling itself.

Happy Schwag, everygodly!

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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: mecreateme]
    #7197179 - 07/19/07 10:55 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Oh this is such a good thread.

HERE, I'll throw in a professional, peer-reviewed reference demonstrating telepathy:

documented telepathy

And if you read this, it'll list several more professional studies which have successfully proved it.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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OfflineAmber_Glow
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: ArcofaJourney]
    #7197256 - 07/19/07 11:12 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I think nonverbal communication is a much better term. And I don't think telepathy has to mean knowing what number I am thinking or anything ridiculous like that. It has more to do with picking up on vibes. There is nothing spectacular in this, we all do it.

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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: badchad]
    #7197262 - 07/19/07 11:13 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

there are thousands and thousands of documented and proven cases of psychic phenomenon that weren't necessarily telepathy but even better.
look up Edgar Cayce in your search engine.
he went into trance and told people what their medical conditions were and what to do about it just by knowing their names. I can just about guarantee that he could have read their minds if he wished as well.
But unless the subject is willing then that is wrong and there are psychic blocks that prevent that from happening.
another well documented phenominon in this category sorta is Remote Viewing.

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Invisiblebadchad
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: cpw1971]
    #7197321 - 07/19/07 11:26 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

But the major question is this:

Why are people always transmitting "vibes" or "feelings". If we truly can transmit energy and messages "psychically" (for lack of a better term); why can't people pick up or transmit objective "vibes" like a number sequence?


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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OfflineJon

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: badchad]
    #7197365 - 07/19/07 11:32 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Go watch Harry Potter and you will believe in telepathy lol

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: Jon]
    #7197498 - 07/19/07 11:57 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Non-verbal communication, thank you very much for keying such a phrase.

I think we can all say that we have had such experiences. Often you can "read" a person by their body language or facial expressions. But to actually "read" that I am thinking word for word, "Well, that tree's bark certainly looks like snakes crawling up to the leaves and down into the ground" versus "reading" that I am thinking about how peculiar the tree is.. are two very different situations.


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Offlinegoodfryfinn
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: cpw1971]
    #7197567 - 07/19/07 12:08 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

cpw1971 said:
heres something probably all of you have done and this is close to telepathy in a way........

did you ever walk into a room and just know someone was fighting just by getting certain vibes??? it is the cells of your body communicating to the objects, air ect... in the room.
the cells of your body communicate on a lower level on what the body needs and stuff. new ones are born and old cells die all the time.
perhaps the cells can communicate through electric signals with everything around them. perhaps by thinking the right thoughs that your cells can relay this info with cells of another person and perhaps they can tune in.




i think this is more like "vibes", which are more likely just little hints you pick up from the people: tone of voice, facial expressions, etc.

the hints are not so astonishing that you would consciously notice them, but your mind puts them together

i don't know am i making sense?


--------------------
"mtv makes me wanna smoke crack
fall out of the window and I'm never comin back
mtv makes me wanna get high
can't get a ride no matter how I try
and everything's perfect
and everything's bright
and everyone's perky
and everyone's uptight
I love those videos
I watch 'em all day........"

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Offlinexeallos
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: vitadura]
    #7197569 - 07/19/07 12:08 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

It is quite clear that shrooms, lsd, mdma, can allow one to experience telepathy. This, no doubt, could be proven in a lab.




Wtf? STFU with this bullshit you knob, that's no way to start a thread or any conversation for that matter. It has been disproven in a lab multiple times but you are too big of a dipshit to spend 10 seconds with Google, instead you devote that time to starting an asinine thread on this site and invoking your position as if it is fact when it is farthest from the truth.

Quote:

Non-verbal communication, thank you very much for keying such a phrase.




I'll show y'all some non verbal communication:



Do you understand what that means? Oh noes, it must be TELEPATHY! I JUST RAPED YOUR MIND!



James Randi exposes Uri Geller, etc:


Edited by xeallos (07/19/07 12:16 PM)

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Offlinegoodfryfinn
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: xeallos]
    #7197599 - 07/19/07 12:13 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

lmfao xeallos you're hilarious


--------------------
"mtv makes me wanna smoke crack
fall out of the window and I'm never comin back
mtv makes me wanna get high
can't get a ride no matter how I try
and everything's perfect
and everything's bright
and everyone's perky
and everyone's uptight
I love those videos
I watch 'em all day........"

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OfflineBigAlHux
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: goodfryfinn]
    #7197688 - 07/19/07 12:31 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

xeallos: Do you always spend so much time saying absolutely nothing?

yageman: I think you need a doctor. and soon.

on cubies, i've had a conversation with someone without opening my mouth. we both confirmed it. he absolutely freaked. it's all the proof i need. the strange thing is how natural it felt. i'm positive that it could be repeated in a lab. even a number sequence if the two people were open enough and the conditions were conducive. i don't think it would be that difficult. i'm not a conspiracy theorist, but i wonder what the government's learned about the effect of such drugs on the mind.


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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: goodfryfinn]
    #7197695 - 07/19/07 12:33 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

goodfryfinn said:
Quote:

cpw1971 said:
heres something probably all of you have done and this is close to telepathy in a way........

did you ever walk into a room and just know someone was fighting just by getting certain vibes??? it is the cells of your body communicating to the objects, air ect... in the room.
the cells of your body communicate on a lower level on what the body needs and stuff. new ones are born and old cells die all the time.
perhaps the cells can communicate through electric signals with everything around them. perhaps by thinking the right thoughs that your cells can relay this info with cells of another person and perhaps they can tune in.




i think this is more like "vibes", which are more likely just little hints you pick up from the people: tone of voice, facial expressions, etc.

the hints are not so astonishing that you would consciously notice them, but your mind puts them together

i don't know am i making sense?



the vibes I am talking about are in the air. the people that were there fighting ect.... dont even have to be there and you still pick up on the vibes.
I have had it happen to me more than once.

Edited by cpw1971 (07/19/07 12:34 PM)

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OfflineBigAlHux
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7197703 - 07/19/07 12:36 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

it's been 'disproven' or hasn't been proven. as your buddies have pointed out, there's a major difference. i'm just surprised considering how often it happens. settle down children. no need for hate. (and some would call me the crazy one).


--------------------
the true profession of man is to find his way to himself - Herman Hesse

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Offlinexeallos
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7197709 - 07/19/07 12:37 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

xeallos: Do you always spend so much time saying absolutely nothing?



I'd relate something about a pot and a kettle but you're probably too dense to understand how that would apply to your current ramblings...

Quote:

i'm not a conspiracy theorist, but i wonder what the government's learned about the effect of such drugs on the mind.




Considering MKUltra is a documented fact there's not much to wonder - the fact is they learned it's useless in such a context: LSD Is not a truth serum, it does not bestow anyone with psychic powers and it never will.

Did you watch that video I linked? It's just for you - moving pictures and sound, because you are too ignorant to read anything on your own - isn't that how all the kids are these days? Can you not even hit the play button, or is that too demanding of a requirement?

Quote:

Former stage magician and noted debunker James Randi has offered a $1 million prize to anyone who can actively demonstrate "any psychic, supernatural or paranormal ability". In order to claim the prize, a challenger must first complete a preliminary evaluation - demonstrate a psychic ability in uncontrolled circumstances - and must then demonstrate the same ability under agreed, controlled circumstances. No challenger has yet passed the preliminary evaluation.

Correspondence and claims from 150 applicants are listed on the James Randi Educational Foundation (JREF) website.




Randi has offered this prize for the last decade, 150 applicants later and not a single proven instance of something all these individuals insisted upon as fact, reality and truth.

If you are so sure of your abilities why don't you go prove the world wrong, prove the 150 people who have gone before you wrong and prove James Randi wrong - and claim your $1M reward?

This is your ultimate justification for this thread, your insistence that you can verify these theories based on your chemically induced hallucinations?

Quote:

i somehow become aware of a connection between our minds. the following happened telepathically:

the first thing i remember asking: 'can you read my mind?' she nods in the affirmative. 'are you (the girl's name)?' she shakes her head 'no'. 'are you good or evil?' no response, but a grin. it then occurs to me that this was the same force that had been trying to destroy me on lsd 2 years earlier. she (or it?) gets up and sits with another friend of mine. at this point i'm getting extremely paranoid, but hanging on. because mdma doesn't make your mind race like acid, i could control it. her and i keep staring at each other from where she's now sitting. it feels like i'm in a battle for my soul. her face keeps taking on this menacing, evil expression. i try to overpower her by focusing my mind, but as i do, i can feel this destructive force overpowering me.

in the end,i don't think people were purposely trying to freak me out. but, there is no question in my mind that there was an evil force present.




Yeah, no question at all... :crazy2:

Edited by xeallos (07/19/07 01:04 PM)

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7197716 - 07/19/07 12:39 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

there are definitely energies of thought that physics can't explain. my belief is that we all communicate telepathically. perhaps it's when you put your ego motivations to the side, or 'let your guard down', as it were. i can tell many here would have yet to experience it, because (perhaps) they are so self-absorbed (-satisfied).


--------------------
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OfflineTHEBats
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: xeallos]
    #7197747 - 07/19/07 12:45 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

The problem with thinking you're telepathic on drugs such as lsd is just that.  You're under the influence of lsd lol.  When it really comes down to it no one has been proved telepathic.  idk but to me anyone who claims such is a quack and can never reproduce this in laboratory settings thus proving they are wrong.  Now some scientists believe there may be an unconscious sort of sense such as if you've ever picked up the phone to call someone and they were on but I leave that to chance personally.

If you all are still interested I'm sure you can find evidence for telepathy occasionally in the weekly world news.  :smirk:

Edited by THEBats (07/19/07 12:47 PM)

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Offlineboomer q
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: goodfryfinn]
    #7197764 - 07/19/07 12:49 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence......just cause it hasent been proven at the present time doesnt make it "100%" false...

there seem to have been alot of experiments "proving" or "disproving" telepathy, but i think the point is that there are other planes of existance and reality that we're not aware of in our everyday lives, but are there, and we may or may not be able to tap into these other planes and do some crazy shit while we're there...

this seems alot like quantum entanglement, if particles are created together they can respond to one anothers actions over vast distances faster than the speed of light...create two photons and separate them...spin one photon one way, and its entangled sibling photon will feel the effects and respond by spinning in the opposite direction...sounds like bullshit if you dont know anything quantum mechanics, but its true

if you told someone that 100 years ago they would have you comitted...just because we dont have the aparatus to test telepathy now doesnt mean we never will


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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: boomer q]
    #7197789 - 07/19/07 12:55 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Someone posted a news article awhile back where they used shrooms and did a test of telepathyin a lab setting and synchronicity of thoughts did increase substantially.


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InvisibleBridgeburner
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: DeathCompany]
    #7197874 - 07/19/07 01:15 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

so can anyone define telepathy to me?


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OfflineBigAlHux
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: boomer q]
    #7197876 - 07/19/07 01:16 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

boomer q said:
absence of evidence does not mean evidence of absence......just cause it hasent been proven at the present time doesnt make it "100%" false...

there seem to have been alot of experiments "proving" or "disproving" telepathy, but i think the point is that there are other planes of existance and reality that we're not aware of in our everyday lives, but are there, and we may or may not be able to tap into these other planes and do some crazy shit while we're there...

this seems alot like quantum entanglement, if particles are created together they can respond to one anothers actions over vast distances faster than the speed of light...create two photons and separate them...spin one photon one way, and its entangled sibling photon will feel the effects and respond by spinning in the opposite direction...sounds like bullshit if you dont know anything quantum mechanics, but its true

if you told someone that 100 years ago they would have you comitted...just because we dont have the aparatus to test telepathy now doesnt mean we never will




yep. and my feeling is that we soon will if we can be rid of the fear.


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the true profession of man is to find his way to himself - Herman Hesse

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7197939 - 07/19/07 01:31 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

The earth is flat!


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OfflineBigAlHux
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7197963 - 07/19/07 01:36 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

here is one of my more powerful experiences ,posted in another thread:

"...So, that night, the 3 of us did perhaps a gram each of low grade shrooms. This type of bar was not "my scene", a bit of a pretentious place I guess. I was sitting across from c. d was out of it, staring at the ceiling. I’m seemingly in my own world, when I consciously realize that I had made eye contact with c, then looked to the left, the right, and rolled my eyes, as if to say "this place is gay". I think I tried to shake it off, but became aware of a thought..."coke and wine would be nice now..." Right away I know it's not my thought, not my nature. and i'm not the only one who noticed it. the second I make this realization, I look at my buddy, who jumps out of his seat across from me, and says "I knew I could get in your head." I start defending. "No, you can't, I can get into yours." We argue. Both of us are paranoid that the link between our minds hadn't been severed. D snaps out of his trip, realizes we're arguing - though he knows not about what - and we decide it's best to leave. Needless to say, both our ego's began battling and defending after the realization was made that we had been "speaking" for some time without opening our mouths. "You shouldn't have opened those doors," he says to me. I, too, suspected that it was my fault b/c I had experienced it before, although at that time no one would admit they knew anything about it (if any of them in fact did). By this point, d is wondering what in the fuck happened. "What are you guys talking about, getting in each other's heads?" (To this day it seems like fate that he was excluded from the experience himself, as if some purpose lay behind his exclusion. i could be wrong on this point). Eventually, d wanted to know more, so we told him in as ambiguous terms as possible. "But…how, why?" he asks. I told him I’d like to know the same thing, (though c just wanted out and said “forget about it”).

The reality of my situation 2 years before had come back to me. This time, however, it was a confirmed telepathic experience, and that was all. No demons, no conspiracy. Hell, my buddy was as freaked out as I was. Unfortunately, it proved to ruin our friendship, as he couldn't ever get over that night (perhaps i couldn't either). When D tried to bring it up the next time we were together, it was buried. No one, save he who hadn't experienced it, wanted to discuss it. I naturally feared that I would lose other friends if they saw what could happen. No more hallucinogens..."

interpret this experience how you want. those who discount it, fine. stay in your box, it's where you belong. those who are skeptical, fair enough. i'd be too if it hadn't happened to me. but it did. and has happened quite often.

part of our conversation was "non-verbal" - i looked at him, rolled my eyes,etc. This is what tipped me off to the telepathic conversation. part of what makes it so interesting is that it seems part of me already knew we were conversing...why else would i look at him and roll my eyes? but it was only then that i became consciously aware, and he through me, of what was actually happening. 'coke and wine' his thought, word-for-word. confirmed. 'this is not my thought'. we both heard it.


--------------------
the true profession of man is to find his way to himself - Herman Hesse

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OfflineBigAlHux
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7197972 - 07/19/07 01:38 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

i don't drink wine, or do coke. he does. it was his thought. we both heard it. end of story!!!

so, let's prove it. i'm not opposed to science, though i'm convinced it won't give us all the answers. i'm convinced this could be - and probably has been - repeated.


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7197983 - 07/19/07 01:41 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

btw, i still love hallucinogens. i've told my gf about my experiences, and will experiment with her. it doesn't take a super-high to make it happen. a moderate buzz and you can connect. be open to it, plain and simple. i think sreies of numbers could be repeated as well.


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Offlinepokermush
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7197985 - 07/19/07 01:41 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Once while tripping, I was sitting on my couch playing XBox with my kids. While looking at the TV, it was drifting away. Before I knew it, the TV was barely visible it was so far away. But I was sitting on my couch still!

Clearly, the mushrooms gave me amazing supernatural powers that allowed me to stretch the space-time continuum between me and the TV, so that I could increase the distance between me and the TV without either of us moving. Amazing!

Probably quantum something or other. That's a pretty good place-holder for all things woowoo.

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7197995 - 07/19/07 01:45 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

telepathy has been "proven" in labs, and much research has been done on it. whats it been like 50, 60, 70 years of research? maybe more?

generally drugs interfere with telepathy, with the excepetion of caffine having a slightly positive effect in some people.


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Offlinepokermush
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: truekimbo2]
    #7198135 - 07/19/07 02:18 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

It's a proven fact well-established by thousands of years of accredited research that psychedelics enhance the potency of midi-chlorians.

Fixing your post for accuracy:
Quote:

truekimbo2 said:
telepathy has never been "proven" in labs or even reproduced under properly controlled conditions, and much research has been done on it. whats it been like 50, 60, 70 years of research? maybe more? Still nothing, even though such a find would be one of the most significant discoveries mankind has ever seen

generally drugs interfere with people's ability to objectively evaluate their experiences which may seem like telepathy, with the excepetion of caffine having a slightly positive effect in some people.



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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: pokermush]
    #7198193 - 07/19/07 02:28 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

pokermush said:
Once while tripping, I was sitting on my couch playing XBox with my kids. While looking at the TV, it was drifting away. Before I knew it, the TV was barely visible it was so far away. But I was sitting on my couch still!

Clearly, the mushrooms gave me amazing supernatural powers that allowed me to stretch the space-time continuum between me and the TV, so that I could increase the distance between me and the TV without either of us moving. Amazing!

Probably quantum something or other. That's a pretty good place-holder for all things woowoo.




:yesnod:


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Offlinexeallos
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7198217 - 07/19/07 02:35 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Probably quantum something or other. That's a pretty good place-holder for all things woowoo.




Yes, it's hilarious to see people who can't even spell half of their words correctly referring to quantum mechanics as an explanation for some bullshit they flipped out on when they were tripping. :thumbup: That's what you call bulletproof logic!

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: xeallos]
    #7198478 - 07/19/07 03:35 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

pokermush, actually you altered my post and made it inaccurate, not that i give a fuck, just so other people know.

plenty of serious scientists have had positive, well designed telepathy experiments. Anyone who tells you otherwise is willfully ignoring evidence.

this'll be my last post in this thread, this is more a mysticism thread i think. poker, you're free to respond, but if its sarcastic bullshit instead of decent conversation i'll have to insta-low rate you.


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Edited by truekimbo2 (07/19/07 03:36 PM)

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InvisibleGrizzyCappy
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: onlynow]
    #7198499 - 07/19/07 03:40 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

onlynow said:
you are 100% wrong. telapathy does not exist because there is no physical or objective proof. duh!

poor guy.




Did radiation exist before the geiger counter was invented? We didn't know about it until we could prove it, but fact is it's been here for..ever.

Did Xrays exist before we invented an xray machine?

Did AM and FM wavelengths and frequencies exist before we invented a radio?


We only recently discovered DNA, therefore it didn't exist before that?


Your idea of reality is absurd. Don't attack me because I'm not saying it exists, I'm not "sold".

But I'm not ignorant and I am "listening". Until something is proven 100% impossible, it IS possible. THAT is true science.

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: truekimbo2]
    #7198739 - 07/19/07 04:47 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

truekimbo2 said:
pokermush, actually you altered my post and made it inaccurate, not that i give a fuck, just so other people know.

plenty of serious scientists have had positive, well designed telepathy experiments. Anyone who tells you otherwise is willfully ignoring evidence.

this'll be my last post in this thread, this is more a mysticism thread i think. poker, you're free to respond, but if its sarcastic bullshit instead of decent conversation i'll have to insta-low rate you.



Yes, I know that the way I modified your post does not represent your views, that's why I tried to make it clear that it was satire. Just trying to bring some laughs into the discussion.

So far, telepathy (or any other supernatural phenomona) has never been demonstrated under controlled conditions. It has never been proven to exist, and if it had, it would have been one of the greatest discoveries ever. On par with antibiotics and the theory of relativity in terms of its potential to advance our knowledge.

If such proof had ever occurred, not only would you hear about it, you would hear about it non-stop from virtually all media.

I'm not saying it doesn't exist, or that it's impossible. I'm saying it's never been demonstrated properly to establish that it does exist. Not only that, but noone has even proposed a viable model by which such an ability might work.

The problem with the results of the numerous experiments that have had positive results is that those experiments are flawed and don't rule out other explanations that are more likely (such as cheating). Invariably, when the experiment is properly designed to rule out chance, bias, and cheating, the supernatural ability in question disappears. That's exactly the same as no supernatural ability at all.

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: pokermush]
    #7198755 - 07/19/07 04:54 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

thank you poker, that was very considerate, i get angry and write off threads alot because there are some sarcastic jerks around here, you are defintely not one.

i would disagree with you on some points.
i've been told that some defense contractors have had to study micro-pk in designing jets and stuff, and that for them its common knowledge that those things exsist. i would assume that in other fields where telepathy might be an important factor they have studied it.

i'll email lockeedmartin and see if they will send me something back relevant...

also, i remmeber for awhile sony had it posted on their website that they were studying telepathy or some shit like that (this was about three years ago?).

yeah i don't really have too many sources right now, and as i've done alot of research in the past i'm not going to look for any.

really though, there have been thousands and thousands of positive lab tests of telepathy, and to say that all of them had flawed methodology seems kind of goofy to me.


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: truekimbo2]
    #7198774 - 07/19/07 05:01 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

our society is so individualistic, that knowledge as to the existence of telepathic abilities would scare most people shitless. most in our society would view it as a threat, however wrongly.


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: truekimbo2]
    #7198808 - 07/19/07 05:14 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

truekimbo2 said:
"there have been thousands and thousands of positive lab tests"
"yeah i don't really have too many sources right now"




:rofl:

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: Rhizoid]
    #7198816 - 07/19/07 05:17 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

i believe this was the correct quote.

"yeah i don't really have too many sources right now, and as i've done alot of research in the past i'm not going to look for any.

really though, there have been thousands and thousands of positive lab tests of telepathy, and to say that all of them had flawed methodology seems kind of goofy to me. "

the k3y being that i've already done the research on various studies and flaws in methodology and all that, and i don't care to do it anymore.


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7198846 - 07/19/07 05:26 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BigAlHux said:
our society is so individualistic, that knowledge as to the existence of telepathic abilities would scare most people shitless. most in our society would view it as a threat, however wrongly.



Why do you think individualists would view telepathy as a threat? I would have been a lot more scared of telepathy if I lived in a collectivist society like Stalin's Russia, Mao's China, or Pol Pot's Cambodia, than in any individualist society.

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: truekimbo2]
    #7198859 - 07/19/07 05:33 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

truekimbo2 said:
the k3y being that i've already done the research on various studies and flaws in methodology and all that, and i don't care to do it anymore.



You mean you did the research that could prove telepathy once and for all, and then you threw it all away? Why?

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: truekimbo2]
    #7198882 - 07/19/07 05:37 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

truekimbo2 said:
thank you poker, that was very considerate, i get angry and write off threads alot because there are some sarcastic jerks around here, you are defintely not one.



Thank you :smile: Although sometimes it's a very fine line that seperates "funny" and "jerk" :wink:

Quote:

i would disagree with you on some points.
i've been told that some defense contractors have had to study micro-pk in designing jets and stuff, and that for them its common knowledge that those things exsist.  i would assume that in other fields where telepathy might be an important factor they have studied it.



Yes, there are a number of college classes, even from reputable institutions, dealing with all kinds fringe stuff, including telepath, telekinesis, ghosts, etc.  I would point out that the important thing lacking in all of these classes is objective evidence to back up their claims. Not having evidence doesn't prevent any nutty professor from teaching a class on his personal beliefs.

Common beliefs can be common and accepted, and still be wrong. Lots of governments still use dowsers to survey land, even though dowsing has been thoroughly discredited.

Quote:

also, i remmeber for awhile sony had it posted on their website that they were studying telepathy or some shit like that (this was about three years ago?).



I wouldn't doubt it. However, there is a big difference between "studying telepathy" and "demonstrating telepathy". Anyone can study anything (such as LOTR middle-earth topography) and it doesn't make it any more real. If Sony had demonstrated it, on the other hand, it would be a monumental discovery.

Quote:

really though, there have been thousands and thousands of positive lab tests of telepathy, and to say that all of them had flawed methodology seems kind of goofy to me.



The important number isn't the number of failures or tries, it's the number of successes. Suppose for a moment that telepathy is impossible. If telepathy is impossible, all properly controlled experiments would have negative results, correct? If enough experiments are tried, wouldn't you expect some of them to be flawed? Then, wouldn't you expect some of the flawed experiments to produce positive results? In the end (if telepathy is impossible) there would be noone who could properly reproduce the phenomena under controlled conditions, but you would have lots of people proclaiming positive results to the believers.

The situation we see today is identical to this hypothetical situation, where noone has come forward and demonstrated telepathy under proper conditions. In other words, the present situation is indistinguishable from what we would see if telepathy were impossible.

It may seem "unlikely" that every single positive result could be the result of flawed control. But it is even more unlikely that so many experiments could show positive results, be properly controlled, but the result (telepathy) can still not be demonstrated to (for example) claim the $1 million prize at http://www.randi.org

FWIW, I used to buy all of this crap hook line and sinker. Bermuda triangle, fountain of youth, atlantis, telepathy, shape-shifting, all of it. However, my thirst for knowledge and understanding eventually led me to put all of these to the test, and they all failed. If it is real, after all, it will stand up to scientific scrutiny. And if it won't stand up to the test, it's not worth believing.

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: pokermush]
    #7198957 - 07/19/07 05:55 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

yeah i don't really have too many sources right now, and as i've done alot of research in the past i'm not going to look for any.

really though, there have been thousands and thousands of positive lab tests of telepathy, and to say that all of them had flawed methodology seems kind of goofy to me.




I'm sorry, but with your serious tone and the subject of the discussion at hand I find it particularly unacceptable that you are willing to posit your beliefs as ringing true without any substantive citation on your behalf. If these positive lab tests are so innumerable as you claim it should take you no longer than a moments notice and a quick search to pull up peer reviewed studies that verify these theories in any concrete fashion.

Tangentially, I find it rather rude that you would also threaten a fellow member with - in your own words - "an insta-low rate" simply because you consider one of their responses inadequate, inapplicable or otherwise unfit to mesh with your perspective on the conversation. Words are all we have, lets not resort to petty maneuvers to project conjecture about one another's character. :rolleyes:

Edited by xeallos (07/19/07 06:09 PM)

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: xeallos]
    #7199009 - 07/19/07 06:06 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I think telepathy is more or less a feeling of extreme empathy which is easily achievable under the influence of some drugs. hence why we cant transfer a 9-digit code to one another, but because behind all the bullshit we are all the same, we can achieve some levels of "telepathy"


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: AtrocitY]
    #7199037 - 07/19/07 06:11 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

heres a study i was looking at about remote viewing, since you guys like theorizing about whether or not studies have been done......

http://anson.ucdavis.edu/~utts/azpsi.html


THE PARANORMAL: THE EVIDENCE AND ITS IMPLICATIONS FOR CONSCIOUSNESS

.
Jessica Utts and Brian D. Josephson



A slightly shortened version of this article was published in the Times Higher Education Supplement's special section on Consciousness linked to the Tucson II conference "Toward a Science of Consciousness", Apr. 5th. 1996, page (v).



Those who recognise that significant discoveries in science are very often prompted by observations that do not fit expectations will find a stimulating challenge in accumulating evidence that it is possible to elicit psychic functioning in experiments with ordinary volunteers acting as subjects. Even more convincing results occur with specially selected subjects.

In one type of experiment, a "target" photograph or video segment is randomly chosen out of a set of four possibilities. A "sender" attempts to transmit it mentally and a "receiver" is then asked to provide an account either verbally or in writing of what she imagines it might be. She is then shown the four possibilities, and selects the one she thinks best matches her perception. By chance alone, a correct match is expected on average one time in four, whereas the experiments typically show the considerably higher success rate of around one in three.

The recent declassification of the US government's psychical research programme (experiments on "remote viewing", similar to the type just described except that it used independent judges to assess the matches rather than having the subjects judge themselves) has permitted a comparison to be made of the results of this programme with those described in the open literature. Despite the different judging procedure, similar success rates were found. In addition, many of the governmental experiments used gifted subjects. The success rate was then even higher, typically over forty percent. The few experiments in the open literature that used gifted subjects found similar success rates.

In the past, critics have attempted to discredit positive results in psychical research on grounds of lack of repeatability. But, as anyone with a training in statistics knows, even where an influence exists, an isolated experiment with an insufficient number of trials may not demonstrate a statistically significant effect. Accordingly, without a more sophisticated analysis, "failure to reproduce an effect" does not demonstrate its absence. Suppose, for example, psychic abilities, in line with the results already described, increase the chances of a successful match from 1/4 to 1/3. Then (according to the accepted statistical theories), an experiment with 30 trials, which has been typical of these experiments, would have less than a 17% chance of achieving a result of statistical significance. The more recent larger experiments still utilise only about 100 trials, and have only about a 57% chance of achieving statistical significance.

Detailed analysis of the complete collection of experiments on this type of phenomenon shows that what holds, despite changes in equipment, experimenter, subjects, judges, targets and laboratories, is far greater consistency with the 1 in 3 success rate already mentioned than with the 1 in 4 chance expectation rate. Such consistency is the hallmark of a genuine effect, and this, together with the very low probability of the overall success rate observed occurring by chance, argues strongly for the phenomena being real and not artifactual.

Reexamination of other types of psychical investigations reveals that they too achieved replicable effects, which went largely unappreciated because of a poor understanding of statistics. For instance, an analysis of experiments in precognitive card guessing and related "forced-choice" experiments, published by Honorton and Ferrari in the Journal of Parapsychology, found that gifted subjects were able to achieve consistently about a 27% success rate when 25% was expected by chance. Similar U.S. government experiments have been revealed to have achieved the same 27% success rate over thousands of trials. If chance alone were the explanation for these results, it would be truly remarkable to achieve a 27% success rate over thousands of trials, and it would be even more remarkable to see identical results in the government work. For further details about the recent evidence, including both a favourable and a skeptical assessment of the U.S. government experiments, consult the Journal of Scientific Exploration, Vol. 10(1), or http://www-stat.ucdavis.edu/users/utts/ on the Internet.

Strong statistical results are of course meaningless if experiments are not properly conducted. Debunkers of parapsychology are fond of showcasing the very few experiments that have been found to have serious problems. But that ignores the fact that the vast majority of experiments were done using excellent protocols, paying close attention to potential subtle cues, using well-tested randomisation devices and so on. For the past decade the U.S. government experiments were overseen by a very high-level scientific committee, consisting of respected academics from a variety of disciplines, all of whom were required to critique and approve the protocols in advance. There have been no explanations forthcoming that allow an honest observer to dismiss the growing collection of consistent results.

What are the implications for science of the fact that psychic functioning appears to be a real effect? These phenomena seem mysterious, but no more mysterious perhaps than strange phenomena of the past which science has now happily incorporated within its scope. What ideas might be relevant in the context of suitably extending science to take these phenomena into account? Two such concepts are those of the observer, and non-locality. The observer forces his way into modern science because the equations of quantum physics, if taken literally, imply a universe that is constantly splitting into separate branches, only one of which corresponds to our perceived reality. A process of "decoherence" has been invoked to stop two branches interfering with each other, but this still does not answer the question of why our experience is of one particular branch and not any other. Perhaps, despite the unpopularity of the idea, the experiencers of the reality are also the selectors.

This idea perhaps makes sense in the light of theories that presuppose that quantum theory is not the ultimate theory of nature, but involves (in ways that in some versions of the idea can be made mathematically precise) the manifestations of a deeper "subquantum domain". In just the same way that a surf rider can make use of random waves to travel effortlessly along, a psychic may be able to direct random energy at the subquantum level for her own purposes. Some accounts of the subquantum level involve action at a distance, which fits in well with some purported psychic abilities.

These proposals are extremely speculative. What needs to be done, in any event, is to integrate mental phenomena more thoroughly into the framework of science (including the quantum level) than is presently the case. The research of Lawrence LeShan (as described in his book The Medium, the Mystic and the Physicist), where interviews with psychics disclosed that they were aware of a "hierarchy of meaningful interconnections", perhaps provides a hint of what might be involved. Science has a poor handle on ideas such as meaningful interconnections since they are alien to its usual ways of thinking. Perhaps it will need to overcome its current abhorrence of such concepts in order to arrive at the truth.

* * * * * * * * * *

Jessica Utts is professor of statistics, University of California, Davis, and was one of two experts commissioned by the CIA to review the two-decade U.S. government psychic research programme in the Summer of 1995. She has recently published a book, Seeing Through Statistics, Duxbury Press, 1996, designed to improve understanding of statistical studies. Brian Josephson, Nobel Laureate, is professor of physics, University of Cambridge, and heads the Mind-Matter Unification Project at the Cavendish Laboratory, Cambridge.


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: boomer q]
    #7199060 - 07/19/07 06:15 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I think we all agreed that studies have been done, but without conclusive positive results


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: goodfryfinn]
    #7199110 - 07/19/07 06:28 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

while tripping i've always felt telepathy is the universal language of the future. it's just that i, as a human, don't have anything interesting to say to another human anyway, so that's why i don't give a shit about telepathy.


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: xeallos]
    #7199172 - 07/19/07 06:39 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

xeallos said:
I'm sorry, but with your serious tone and the subject of the discussion at hand I find it particularly unacceptable that you are willing to posit your beliefs as ringing true without any substantive citation on your behalf. If these positive lab tests are so innumerable as you claim it should take you no longer than a moments notice and a quick search to pull up peer reviewed studies that verify these theories in any concrete fashion.

Tangentially, I find it rather rude that you would also threaten a fellow member with - in your own words - "an insta-low rate" simply because you consider one of their responses inadequate, inapplicable or otherwise unfit to mesh with your perspective on the conversation. Words are all we have, lets not resort to petty maneuvers to project conjecture about one another's character. :rolleyes:




I find it ironic that you make fun of this guy for sticking by his beliefs and then not posting any actual studies to back it up when u have done just the same. You also go on about how he was rude when your very first post was quite rude itself. So you have a big vocabulary but you aren't  really paying attention to what you are saying. :foreheadslap: You are very hypocritical.


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7199186 - 07/19/07 06:42 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

since you guys like theorizing about whether or not studies have been done......




I don't think anyone has attempted to advance such an idea in the course of this discussion.

The content of your rebuttal is not a new study, it is simply the writings of a statistician who took a look at an old Military/CIA assessment: Stargate Project.

It's interesting that in her paper she mentions "gifted" subjects, more detail on that:

Quote:

The project was eventually terminated, according to the official report at the time, because there was insufficient evidence of the utility of the intelligence data produced. In 1989 new civilian administrators, unfamiliar with CRV protocols, had brought in "witches," tarot card readers, and channelers, thereby, it is argued, deteriorating the quality of the project's data.




On the viability of the data:

Quote:

In 1995 the project was transferred to the CIA and a retrospective evaluation of the results was done. The CIA contracted the American Institutes for Research for this evaluation. An analysis conducted by Professor Jessica Utts showed a statistically significant effect, with gifted subjects scoring 5%-15% above chance, though subject reports included a large amount of irrelevant information, and when reports did seem on target they were vague and general in nature. Professor Ray Hyman concluded a null result. Based upon both of their collected findings, the CIA followed the recommendation to terminate the 20 million dollar project.Time magazine stated in 1995 three full-time psychics were still working on a $500,000-a-year budget out of Fort Meade, Maryland, which would soon close up shop. [1]



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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: xeallos]
    #7199414 - 07/19/07 07:22 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

very clever, the trick you keep repeating of inserting silly things into quotes. its both relevant to the topic and uproariously funny. keep up the good work.


and as far as the content of my rebuttal, my aim was simply to demonstrate that peer reviewed articles on the subject are readily available, and in fact CAN be pulled up at a moments notice, and that many very qualified scientists would disagree with your opinions regarding telepathy.


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: boomer q]
    #7199433 - 07/19/07 07:24 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

i stand corected on the inserting :blush:  ray hyman just sounded too unreal


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: boomer q]
    #7199480 - 07/19/07 07:33 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I find it ironic that you make fun of this guy for sticking by his beliefs and then not posting any actual studies to back it up when u have done just the same.




Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Quote:

You also go on about how he was rude when your very first post was quite rude itself.




Fair enough, that's your opinion. In regards to my initial post, I was responding to the framing of this thread which was as ridiculous as I could possibly imagine. I felt the need to follow suit thematically and was suitably ridiculous in my reply. Guilty as charged.


Quote:

very clever, the trick you keep repeating of inserting silly things into quotes.




Huh? Do you not realize that the paper you cited was the work of a statistician looking over data produced outside of her realm of expertise and influence? It is no surprise that a statistician would find a %2 deviance in an assumed result range to be significant while others would not necessarily find the same to hold true.

Show me where I fudged any quotation, otherwise I will consider your accusation as baseless as the evidence clearly shows.

Quote:

i stand corected on the inserting :blush: ray hyman just sounded too unreal




Thank you for your admission.

Quote:

many very qualified scientists would disagree with your opinions regarding telepathy.




Show me these qualified scientists and their claims, preferably something not two decades old which was then rehashed a decade later by a statistician? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - it is the duty of all those who would hold unconventional theories in discussion to advance their position upon the audience, you cannot reasonably expect the inverse position or lack thereof to be a validating data point in the slightest.

It's analogous to someone who might observe a tree struck by lightning and ask you to prove to them that God himself did not just strike it down. What is a reasonable response to such an inquiry? :rofl:

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: xeallos]
    #7199531 - 07/19/07 07:43 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

well, the paper i just cited said: "Detailed analysis of the complete collection of experiments on this type of phenomenon shows that what holds, despite changes in equipment, experimenter, subjects, judges, targets and laboratories, is far greater consistency with the 1 in 3 success rate already mentioned than with the 1 in 4 chance expectation rate. Such consistency is the hallmark of a genuine effect, and this, together with the very low probability of the overall success rate observed occurring by chance, argues strongly for the phenomena being real and not artifactual."

that sounds like a claim to me, and the co-author of the paper is: "Brian Josephson, Nobel Laureate, is professor of physics, University of Cambridge, and heads the Mind-Matter Unification Project at the Cavendish Laboratory, Cambridge."

im not sure how much more qualified you can get than that, and in any event, both authors of the paper are much more qualified than yourself, or myself for that matter. everyone can have an opinion, but some peoples mean more than others is all im sayin...


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: boomer q]
    #7199725 - 07/19/07 08:38 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

poker: i was a pretty much a skeptic until drug experiances prompted me to start playing telepathic guessing games, and then practicing.

after practicing daily for 3-4 years i commonly was able to know what people said before they said it, predict their physical actions. both of which can be explained by normal subconscious communication.
i was also able to implant thoughts, causing people to do the above according to my intent prior to their actions occuring.
those things are not very impressive, but they were the most common and happened several times a day.

less common things that happened was:
- i was able on several occasions to project visual hallucinations to people, some in remote locations with confirmation via the internet. it would go something like "i'm doing a telepathy experiment, look at a blank sheet of paper and tell me what you see"
- i advanced to playing telepathic "games" that involved sending complete gestalts to people. for example instead of trying to do a shape or color, we would send all the physical sensations (taste touch sound smell sight) NOT choosing from a predetermined pool of possibilities.
playing that games and guessing "i smell seawater, i'm hearing a sound that sounds like the ocean, my feet feel gritty and dirty like sand, ect ,ect" and then having the person reveal that they were sending a beach scene is pretty convincing for me... my accuracy was somewhere around 10% over maybe 500 trials at that particular game.
- i would pick up random memories from people, also explainable through non-psychic means (just being able to read and sterotype people well?)
- being able to telepathically influence a friend to be at a location at a certain time. could have happened by chance but generally i chose locations that my friend's wouldn't normally be at (thats why i was doing it... because i wanted to meet up and i knew they wouldn't normally be there)

there is probably more.

i quit all that and "turned it off" after i had a several month panic period where instead of having to concentrate and focus to get the above results it was just on all the time. the resulting sensation of being merely a single point of self in a sea of feeling and thought convinced me to stop fucking around with it.
it was somewhat like tripping, except i would have complete thoughts in addition to just random feelings... and everything else was physically normal of course.

occuring at about the same time i did similar practice with remote viewing, OBEs and telekinesis, various meditations, blah blah blah.

all in all, despite what anyone says about delusion, i have to conclude its real, although i do agree that there is a high incidence of people tricking themselves, since there is an incredible amount of subconscious activity going on that most people aren't aware of.

(P.S. the subconscious mechanisms that make fake telepathic experiances occur i believe naturally work in conjunction with telepathy)

edit: a funny result of my telepathy experiance is i came to the conclusion that 99% of religious experiance is just attributing supernatural causes (deitys and bizzarre explanations for the workings of reality) to everyday "paranormal" events. usually spread through subconscious or telepathic means from other people. if anyone is interested in this idea i'll make a post about it in the mysticsm forum.


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Edited by truekimbo2 (07/19/07 08:45 PM)

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Offlineboomer q
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: boomer q]
    #7199746 - 07/19/07 08:42 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

let me restate my position, just so as to not cause any confusion or undue tension....

im not a proponent of telepathy, im not the one who claimed to be 100% certain of anything, and if someone told me they could read my thoughts id think theyr a moron.... my point is, like i said before that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, and im sure that no matter how many studies we present each other with, im not gonna convince you of anything you dont already believe....its true, there have been no studies that say "here is the proof" but there are some very smart people out there working hard to make a significant discovery, and some of them believe things that you might think are dumb, but thats your opinion

what i do believe is that there are many things about the world we live in that we dont curently understand, and some of them might seem wild and crazy to us now, but in 50 years we'll take for granted

xeallos, you argue your point of view well, and im sure we could go back and fourth quoting articles, but at the present i have neither the time, nary the inclination to engage in any extra academic research....im actually just wasting time and procrastinating my calculus studying for my test tomorrow, calc 2 is the worst!!! but at least i found some aderall to keep me up!!!

if this is thread is still around in a few days maybe we'll lock horns again


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: boomer q]
    #7199780 - 07/19/07 08:51 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

It might be important for you skeptics to consider your body is pulsing with electricity, your brain is resonating at all sorts of well-known frequencies, and we do know that electromagnetism travels through objects quite easily.

I know for a fact that I can pick up people's energies in other rooms nearby. I can tell when someone is angry, happy, etc. not by hearing them, but by picking up what sort of feel like vibrations in the air.

I'm not sure telepathy is real, but I do know your body communicates in ways most people are vaguely aware of.

Think of your body/brain as both transmitters and tuning forks.


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Offlineyageman
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: boomer q]
    #7199901 - 07/19/07 09:18 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

One of my favorite psychedelic subjects, and its too bad I dont talk about it much.

I have been there and have seen things so weird that most people wouldnt even believe me.

I believe there is a structure to it and has more to do with universal synchronicity than some simple channel between people.

Kinda weird that I have not taken psychedelics in about two years and it has become much less understandable, and does not show its self very often....."lol" I sure as hell cant see it coming anymore.
I believe in objectivism, love ayn rand and think capitalism is one hell of a thing to truely understand.
I also cannot deny my own experiences.

I think people who really want to find the answer and cant find it thus far, dont realize that this is a sort of a mathematical mind machine.
Sorry to get all "last mimsy" on your asses.
The answer is within yourself.

Its a very weird thing to behold.

It has everything to do with ones proneness to view all sorts of synchronicities around you when on psychedelics.
If you can tap into the maths and trends that surround you, you can tell the future.
My friends stopped wanting to play a game I made up(using a deck of cards), because they are serious poker players and actually kinda didnt like my five card game after I kept busting up their perception of chance and breaking their rules.
The idea was to read them like a book.
They choose five cards not counting the suit.
The idea was to "fool me".
Like a fractal, I didnt do so well at the beginning, but learned how to guess their cards.
They quit after I was 3-4 out of 5 every time. My best friend was a smart and psychedelic guy and he honestly didnt want to play anymore.
Ayahuasca is what caused this last straw, this testing period.

Sometimes it has less to do with logic though, in which case lends its way to more astonishing things.
Two people reading each others minds is one thing, and is VERY interesting in its mutual cognitive structure.
When it moves out of the body, is when you are considered crazy.

I dont talk about that shit, because its not worth my time.

I cant tell anyone how to fuse with their universe.

There is an over mind smarter than you and me.
I know that.

I think that overmind has the info we need.

It has a very intimidating and controlling set of shapes to it.


You SHOULDNT BELIEVE ME.
I just have different experiences.
Even if you want to believe me, dont, and find it yourself.

Get a bit nutty with that pliable mind of yours.
I dont know of any road maps aside from almost a half of a life spent being weird and using psychedelics in a very serious way.

It comes to you would be my guess, as does mental illness.
You dont have to want to go there to see it.
It comes to you.

Good luck peoples.


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[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.

Edited by yageman (07/19/07 09:20 PM)

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Offlineyageman
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: yageman]
    #7199938 - 07/19/07 09:27 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

weed cream?


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[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.

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OfflineDeathCompany
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: xeallos]
    #7200568 - 07/20/07 12:06 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

xeallos said:
Quote:

I find it ironic that you make fun of this guy for sticking by his beliefs and then not posting any actual studies to back it up when u have done just the same.




Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.






very true but just wondering do you have any proof saying certain studies are dismissed?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this shit? [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7200951 - 07/20/07 01:44 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

If it is important to you, why don't YOU do the research?

All controlled tests to date have shown nothing whatsoever.


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7201044 - 07/20/07 02:24 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Everyone who believes that telepathy exists should google John Allen, he'll give you a million dollars if you can prove that you're telepathic without cheating. He's been doing it for 30 some odd years and not one person has demonstrated paranormal abilities under REAL scientific conditions.

Drugs don't make you smarter or better kids!


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Offlineyageman
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: DIRTYMAN]
    #7201114 - 07/20/07 02:59 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DIRTYMAN said:
DIRTYMAN is a fuggin moron






lol...you fucking tool.
John allen is cool, and you are fucking tool.

He has been doing that for so many years, and he is funny as hell/basically a comedian.

You however are tool.

Psychedelics can make you better and smarter in some ways.
You can start your search for that truth by talking to dead musicians.
I for one know how it has made myself more worldly wise, so as to provolk a holistic point of view. It taught me alot about music too you fucking tool.

Just ask the acid head john coltrane.
I suppose he was full of shit too....lol

The golden mean bitch..... It goes all the way back to aristotle and his predecessor's.

If you cant see the maths that are revealed, then just try next time.

You are out of your element donny.


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[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.

Edited by yageman (07/20/07 03:09 AM)

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: yageman]
    #7201660 - 07/20/07 08:57 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

yeah plato totally dropped acid.


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OfflineBigAlHux
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: Bridgeburner]
    #7202203 - 07/20/07 11:47 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

great job boomer. it is nice to see such open mindedness. for my part, i'm as sure i've experienced telepathy as i am that i exist. i know it might smack of dogmatism to say one is 100% sure of anything, but when one experiences it as powerfully as i have, it's hard not to...

yageman, the syncronicities of which you speak i somewhat understand. the latest experience i had nearly blew my mind. but i don't let it affect me anymore. i try to pretened it never happened if only for my sanity. however, i don't forget it, and would like to understand the nature of it, which oftentimes seems evil. it seems to me that good and evil battle, although this is an antiquated and perhaps unenlightened idea. i've had the over-consciousness respond to the evil before. it's the oddest thing because it is an intelligence greater than mine which seems to come from my head. i nearly went crazy and beleive that i have experienced things and have understood them in ways that would not be alien to you.

one thing i believe has been revealed to me: We are not nearly who we think we are and probably couldn't understand if we were told. i feel you may share this sentiment...


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the true profession of man is to find his way to himself - Herman Hesse

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OfflineBigAlHux
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this shit? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7202212 - 07/20/07 11:49 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
If it is important to you, why don't YOU do the research?

All controlled tests to date have shown nothing whatsoever.





i'm not in a position to right now, but God willing, I just might one day....


--------------------
the true profession of man is to find his way to himself - Herman Hesse

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7202226 - 07/20/07 11:53 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

it might be argued that the popularity of this thread and the emotion it evokes hints at an underlying reality and truth to my position. just a thought...


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the true profession of man is to find his way to himself - Herman Hesse

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7202319 - 07/20/07 12:20 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

On the subject of empathy, there's an excellent show put out by NOVA, called the MIRROR GENE. Discusses the physical trait within us that leads to extending ourselves into the shoes of those who we view.

Interesting that such a gene would exist within us. Why would God/Nature put it there?

Perhaps someday we'll find another, and another. The signs are there, the potential is definately there. However, as of yet - the proof is not.

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: GrizzyCappy]
    #7202545 - 07/20/07 01:22 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

as for the fear of telepathy in an individualist society, i think it is because we are so ego centric and want no one to hear/know what we are thinking. the fear comes largely from ignorance as well, as the individual often isn't even aware of what he or she is truly thinking, and hardly wants anyone else privy to such information.


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the true profession of man is to find his way to himself - Herman Hesse

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InvisibleGrizzyCappy
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7202576 - 07/20/07 01:29 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Embrace truth, and fear disappears. I could freely open my heart and mind and thoughts and not be ashamed or scared to do so.

My conscience is clear. My will is good. My intentions are harmless.

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Offlinexeallos
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: GrizzyCappy]
    #7202648 - 07/20/07 01:51 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

i'm not in a position to right now, but God willing, I just might one day....



When you are "in a position" to do so you'll have a couple million dollar rewards at the end of the rainbow waiting for you... so I don't really see how you can say you don't have the time to devote to such "research" (typing stuff into Google to find citations for your argument on an internet forum?) when:

A) you have spent all this time here discussing the subject at hand based on your personal hallucinations
B) you could have been a multi-millionaire by now if it is so simple to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

That's not a derogatory statement, that's a simple observation of your position and the facts at hand.

Quote:

it might be argued that the popularity of this thread and the emotion it evokes hints at an underlying reality and truth to my position.



No, the more likely explanation is this subject has fascinated mankind ever since we grouped as hunter gatherers and produced medicine men, shamans, etc... it has been a highly charged and polarized subject and it will probably remain that way due to peoples failure to rationally consider the available substantive body of evidence for or against the subject - again, much like most "religious" beliefs - there's not a lot anyone can do to change those. That is a simple fact.

We can discuss mysticism or we can discuss science; instead all we have discussed is a two decade old study that was rehashed by a statistician who found a %2 deviation from an expected %25 result and interpreted that as rounding upwards to produce a functionally equivalent %30 observable hit rate, which again can be argued is not all that significant especially in the context of something that requires extraordinary data to support itself.

"Remote viewing" has never been verified substantively, and that is one of the least powerful conceptual tools in the arsenal of a true psychic or telekenetic individual gifted with so called extra sensory perception and the ability to modify the data collected by these so called "extra senses". If that cannot even be proved I really doubt we'll all be sitting around bending our silverware with our minds in the next decade...

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: xeallos]
    #7202897 - 07/20/07 02:58 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

i think you just like the phrase "rehashed a 2 decade old study".....

the link to wikipedia that you provided said the study ended in 1995. i know my math skills arent great, but thats alot less than two decades ago, and from the time the study ended to the time the paper was published, 1996....well thats not two decades either.....sure they were doing experiments in the 70s, but they were in the 80s and 90s as well. she took into account thousands of trials conducted over two decades. thats alot different than looking at someones results from 20 years ago and writing your opinions. yes, she found a 2% deviation...dont you think a statistician a more qualified than yourself to remark about the importance of that 2% deviation? again, im not saying that they said anything difinitive, im just saying that your not either


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Invisibletruekimbo2
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: boomer q]
    #7203976 - 07/20/07 08:09 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

sadly technology has and will surpass psychic development...

but oddly enough when we're all cyber-netically telepathic everyone will instantly (assuming there is no lag) be able to view paranormal experiences from all the possible human perspectives...

i kind of wonder if THAT is the form of the thing at the end of time that mckenna talks about.

as soon as you buy your brand new brain-jack or whatever and plug it in reality/your personal reality becomes instantly invalidated by the enlightened experiences of others... i image that would have quite strange consequences.

also, i just wanted to advertise for my own post about synchronicity.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5837996#5837996


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Edited by truekimbo2 (07/20/07 08:10 PM)

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OfflineBigAlHux
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: truekimbo2]
    #7205075 - 07/21/07 12:49 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

xeallos you talk a lot about 'simple facts' bud. but why is it such a 'polarizing' and 'charged' subject, as you so eloquently put it? Why do so many people so strongly believe it happens? no doubt people are often wrong, but that is usually about things that seem obvious to the senses, such as the sun revolving around the earth. telepathy cannot be put into such a category. it is counter intuitive to believe it exists (unless you've been there). at least this is how it seems to me.

not that i have to explain my current life situation to you, but let's just say i have other things on my plate. were i to commit myself to such a study, i understand that it would be a life long project. i will say that it does seem to me that it could be proven, and much more easily than some would admit or like to believe. that said, i'd love to get into the field one day. however, i'm not fooling myself, and understand that such a project would be difficult.

skeptics like you are good. you keep those who see beyond the shadows on their toes. you have always been disproven in the past, and will continue to be disproven in the future. a wise man once said "we don't know one millionth of one percent about anything." you, like i, know NOTHING. the difference between me and you is that i understand this.

go google yourself silly buddy. it takes one to think they know one...


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the true profession of man is to find his way to himself - Herman Hesse

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7205080 - 07/21/07 12:51 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

the 'couple million dollar reward' is hardly what i'm after...i'd prefer truth for truth's sake.


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #7205099 - 07/21/07 12:57 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

You are the tall axe.

And you have cut down that dry wood.

dont worry about xeallos...................

You said what you meant Id assume.

You might have some shit to do but keep what ever it is that you think you know alive and well.


--------------------
[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: chairmanK]
    #15155612 - 09/29/11 10:12 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

your original post this is a response to was 4 yrs back so not sure if you will even see this. http://twm.co.nz/hologram.html may help you out a little.....

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OfflineHashHeesh
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: jadeferguson]
    #15160180 - 09/30/11 09:49 PM (12 years, 5 months ago)

Whilst taking mushrooms, usually it has to be over 3g's, I feel that I do acquire some hidden abilities of telepathy and variable vibration emanation. I don't think the shrooms give it to you, rather they awaken it from within.

It's like in your daily life, your senses are held back to perceive/transmit only the things most concerning in the moment. As a male I'm much more associated with the masculine logic and rationale, whereas my feminine spirit lacks short. After tripping I see this go the other way. My feminine spirit of the changing world, of creation and chaos opens up and can make others feel this too. Now keep in mind, I know I'm tripping but this is different. I even asked a friend of mine who was tripping with me and asked him if he could ascern the telepathy and he agreed. It feels almost like a low frequency buzz of interspersed signals. We couldn't really communicate words but could push and pull feelings/emotions. That one to one communication to me seemed like telepathy.

Another incident I want to share is about sound vibrations. A few weeks ago I was at a school playground and a couple of pigeons were courting each other, coincidentally on the courtyard. The male was truly an Alpha with a chest cavity as plush as Captain Quark. Anyway... this pigeon used his chest to his advantage and emanated this trancy vibration where the female would be totally dazzled. She would sway back in forth, dancing to his rhythm. So I tried doing this while shroomed up.

During the peak, my head becomes almost like a beacon of reception/transmission. I usually close my eyes because the CEV's are always good and to hide my tripper eyes, haha! But then it intensifies. I find that I can focus the vibrations to send out to other people. I tested it in a Cafe and a Foodcourt. Girls seem to be more receptive as the guys couldn't give two flying f's. As I stand back in a wide open area, I scan my eyes for women who are listening in. And they are... a sway of their shoulder, they turn around as if compelled that there is a disturbance in the force.

I would love to test this out again but the season is over here. I could just be high tripping but I think it has got to do communication on the Spiritual level, beyond words. In our scientific/material world we have been taught to prioritize physicality and devoid anything more as non-existent. For how can we if everything can be explained in mm's, atoms and grams. Thus the mushrooms embraces the full individual and awakens his/her true spiritual levels.

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #27515229 - 10/23/21 02:31 PM (2 years, 5 months ago)

This video presents all the best evidence for telepathy that I've gathered (including telepathy as it relates to the use of psychedelics), along with how we can use this information to literally stop all the world's suffering - NOT selling anything for money, just offering honest information and a real solution :heart:


Edited by mentalunity (10/24/21 01:06 AM)

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: mentalunity] * 1
    #27515889 - 10/24/21 06:02 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

Science suffers scientism, which is a derailment of science into ritualisms that are not rational but based on habit.

There are many subjects you hardly can ever get a journal to publish your findings on, no matter how correct, and because of that, some progress lacks the peer review it needs.

Anything "supernatural" sounding is shunned, even though its quite possible that the brain, after hundreds of millions of years of evolution to better anticipate, might very well be capable of clairvoyance and telepathy.


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: Asante] * 2
    #27516122 - 10/24/21 10:42 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

while there is buffoonery among scientists, that is only because there is buffoonery among people at large.

ESP and telepathy may exist, experiments to repeatedly evaluate the existence of these have not be devised. Stuff gets in the way.

Science is a process of discovery and information that connects dependably between experimental evaluations repeatedly done by different people at different times in different places.

Very likely something will come of it after someone devises a good repeatable experiment, everything else is conjecture.

Do not demonize science for not having the answers you want (also when you do understand more, you may not want what you once thought you did want).


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27516144 - 10/24/21 11:05 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

I think science needs a way to measure it to prove that it exists, and that's the problem right now.  just my thought

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: varoan]
    #27517035 - 10/25/21 03:33 AM (2 years, 5 months ago)

telepathy exists
a woman on lsd had telepathy with friends
it's fun and it's good
mental cake! awesome


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: boomer q]
    #27519290 - 10/26/21 06:59 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

boomer q said:
i think you just like the phrase "rehashed a 2 decade old study".....

the link to wikipedia that you provided said the study ended in 1995. i know my math skills arent great, but thats alot less than two decades ago, and from the time the study ended to the time the paper was published, 1996....well thats not two decades either.....sure they were doing





I hate to be "that guy" and my simple math isn't always on point, but I'd like to point out that two decades ago is 2001 (two decades = 20 years). So yes, 1996 is over two decades ago.

j

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: chairmanK]
    #27519583 - 10/26/21 11:47 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

chairmanK said:
Telepathy? Do you really believe that you have telepathic powers when you are tripping? Oh dear. This kind of talk is the reason why some psychiatrists describe these drugs as "psychotomimetic".




Yes we call these people what they are; materialists. I.E. they're playing with an incomplete deck, but they're going to rationalize why that's fine via massive fallacies and philosophical distortions themselves, then gate-keep everyone that disagrees with their flawed and handicapped premises.

Who's the psychiatrist's psychiatrist?

Telepathy is a valid phenomena just like whistling. Not everyone can whistle. Even less people can whistle using their fingers.

Quote:

Asante said:
Science suffers scientism, which is a derailment of science into ritualisms that are not rational but based on habit.

There are many subjects you hardly can ever get a journal to publish your findings on, no matter how correct, and because of that, some progress lacks the peer review it needs.

Anything "supernatural" sounding is shunned, even though its quite possible that the brain, after hundreds of millions of years of evolution to better anticipate, might very well be capable of clairvoyance and telepathy.




See? Asante knows what's up. Materialism/Scientism™ posing as genuine free inquiry, while being anything but.


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: Loaded Shaman]
    #27519751 - 10/27/21 06:12 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

It is certainly more effective than using your mouth and throat to make words. It is a more pure form of communication. Less subject to manipulation. Closer to the source of you.

It feels like one is using the heart to speak or hear. It is the best way I can put it into words or express the experience of it.

I had never experienced telepathy until I met entities on deeper trips.

On deeper trips telepathy is the preferred method of communication.

It is an odd feeling to do it. But then you realize it is actually like a second nature. The cloud of forgetfulness makes us forget about this one too.

Edited by wolfman42 (10/27/21 07:20 AM)

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this shit? [Re: BigAlHux]
    #27519755 - 10/27/21 06:22 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Think about it: as hunters gatherers, telepathy would help people immensely, by better coordinating hunts, etc. So why evolution has not developed it? Why are we still texting instead of telling things each other telepathically?

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: wolfman42]
    #27519758 - 10/27/21 06:26 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

i dont think communication with entities on trips is proof of anything. First, we dont know if these entities are somewhat real or just a product of tripper's mind. Without a scientific theory of consciousness, things like ESP will not enter scientific mainstream study

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: darkcreature]
    #27519772 - 10/27/21 06:44 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

darkcreature said:
i dont think communication with entities on trips is proof of anything. First, we dont know if these entities are somewhat real or just a product of tripper's mind. Without a scientific theory of consciousness, things like ESP will not enter scientific mainstream study




I am as sure of it as the sunrise. It is a very distinct and unique kind of experience. But some will not believe it and that is ok and even necessary.

I am not in the category of we, which is consensus reality. I have not consented to this reality as being real.

The entities are no less real than you and I from my perspective.

My body will be long dead before science has that answer.

We approach the subject from different perspectives that is all.

Edited by wolfman42 (10/27/21 06:51 AM)

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this shit? [Re: darkcreature]
    #27519784 - 10/27/21 07:01 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

darkcreature said:
Think about it: as hunters gatherers, telepathy would help people immensely, by better coordinating hunts, etc. So why evolution has not developed it? Why are we still texting instead of telling things each other telepathically?




It is the same reason you cannot float away to safety when a lion is chasing after you.

There are checks and balances on stage. You cannot cheat your way to a successful hunt by using telepathy or mind control of the animal hunted. We have been given other more obvious gifts for that purpose instead.

There are natural constraints placed on the world to establish challenges. If we were not challenged, we would not grow. As such certain features are hidden and not readily available to us, or easily identified by us.

Ignorance is necessary for our development.

Therefore we are limited here. But the limitation is only apparent. Just like forgetfulness.

The truth is we have all used telepathy before but we cannot remember it.

Edited by wolfman42 (10/27/21 07:16 AM)

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: darkcreature]
    #27519822 - 10/27/21 07:55 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Agreed.  The jury is still out.  Let’s not jump the gun and call it forward thinking repressed by the establishment and pat ourselves on the back over it just yet.  If it happens to be real but is a truly exceedingly rare phenomenon - reproducing it dependably amongst different various people but in the same conditions will prove extremely difficult.

I don’t count entity encounters yet bc - even though in my time I’ve “communicated” extensively “telepathically” with an “entity” before - via under the influence of psychedelic fungi and dreaming .  However, it wasn’t with words or symbols within my mind.  More like after communing/coalescing  there’s the sharing of a single mind/heart and thus not needing to share any spoken words or body language gesture/symbols because there was a shared mutual basic understanding already going on.  For all we know that’s just our brains talking to themselves in a novel way. 

As a lucid dreamer and lucid hallucinater - I can at times notice it’s my own brain making it up even while it’s happening.  So for me it could just as well be what happens when both brain hemispheres are enhanced by a direct hyper connectivity to themselves and one another.  It already happens ina more limited fashion while we dream & lucid dream.  So it’s natural to hypothesize that psychedelics, being more powerful, can bump it up the the nth degree - making all kinds of manifestations experientially available to the brain.  But to say the brain/mind isn’t doing it?  Ugh…that’s missing the most obvious fundamental thing to all of our experiences - and in favor of what exactly? 

Otherwise, How would you know for sure it’s other than our own brainmind? 

Does that detract in anyway from the benefit I received from the experience?  Hell no.  But it does change my understanding of what the human brain is possible of doing for itself - for better or worse. 
Learning how to use such an innate ability should be respectfully done with caution. 
In my case, thankfully, that experience was for the better.  Sometimes it still leaves me second guessing & wondering and in awe - it keeps my mind open - but not so much so that it’s so open that I abandon all good sound sober reason, knowledge, sense, & discernment.  That’s just another form of laziness & self deceit.  Wishful thinking.  How about using wishful thinking & psychedelics purely for their real benefit to health but without the wacky unreal beliefs attached afterwards?

If you believe the Cosmos to be like a Mind in its own right, or within a Mind of its own, or your own, or another’s, while also containing individual beings within that also have mind.  Then by virtue of that you open yourself to potentially experiencing your experience of it like that.

Ive also experienced rare phenomena such as the classical siddhis as documented in Buddhist traditions/aka - psychic (mental) powers - but could I reproduce them while in a lab? If I had the all the time, cost of living, and the freedom I needed to bring them about in my own way… sure, probably could.  It’d have to take the form of something akin to a prolonged & extensive sleep study.  What would be the point though?  It’s fun, exhilarating, like simultaneously being both a piece of art and the artist working on it at the same time.  Can be used to understand certain things about ourselves and the world - but so can a good education, travel,  and many of things.

Would it do any good? Probably not, because in a way they are like dreaming, in that dreams don’t take place as we know it in space-time and so can’t be witnessed as it is for the subject by an “outside” observer at the same time. Plus, with siddhis, I don’t literally pass through actual walls with my literal physical body. Nor does my physical body literally become as large as the Sun or as small as an atom, or multiplying my body 10,000 times or taking on the physical form of another form other than my body…. etc etc etc ….otherwise someone would’ve obviously noticed:rofl:  all an outside observer would notice is me sitting down cross legged for a long time.
So I take the nature of that kind of stuff as hallucinogenic.  Has its benefits, detriments, and uses - just like anything else.

Or do you all not believe the Homo sapien, a mammalian primate, is not subject to the phenomena of hallucination?  That’s incredibly well documented and is reliably demonstrable & observable by whomever eats a psychedelic or through other causes.  Hell, everyone on this board should know that one.  The thing is - hallucinations are notoriously tricky. 

How many of you don’t realize until after waking up that your dream wasn’t really a continuation of shared co-mutual day to day reality? Funnily enough - Not but 1hr ago I  woke up from a dream in which i was being chased around by beings that wanted to eat me alive and so I was running for the hills!  The whole town in which the dream took place was full of these man eating creatures.  Eventually after getting all my comrades they caught up to me - as soon as I knew there was no escape - I turned it all around by pulling out my dick & letting them blow me.  :lol: .  But this time, sadly, there was no one else with me when I fell asleep or upon awakening in bed.  Le der!!! it was all my own brain’s doing the whole time even when it seemed like it wasn’t.

Bc if we did know the whole time then we wouldn’t just be dreaming we’d be lucid dreaming. Aka aware that our hallucinations/dreams are our pure brain/Mind phenomena. Doubting the veracity of one’s own experience is necessary imho&e when it comes to hallucinations unless you want to act &  be seen as one who’s like a child that went their whole life without learning they aren’t real in the classical sense of the word.  Like a 40 year old true believer in the existence of the magical Catholic  Easter bunny or Santa Claus.

That doesn’t mean the case is closed!  Far from it imho&e.  Evolution didn’t end when the Homo Saipan came about.  So there’s always going to be more invention, adventure, insight, and discovery to be had.
But, I do believe we need to take better care of ourselves so we can critically examine our current conditioning & points of view and how that combo influences our experience of dreams/hallucinations before jumping to conclusions after a few hundred psychedelic experiences - aka a Mind Revealing experiences.

We are all  always already unified with nature - don’t even need psychs or religion or science to to see that the interdependency of all phenomena stands on its own.  Though they can sometimes be a big help. :wink::mushroom2:


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Edited by The Blind Ass (10/27/21 08:43 AM)

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #27519875 - 10/27/21 08:42 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

TBA it is called Faith.

If one asked Buddha about realization you would not hear uncertainty or 'I think' in the answer. You would hear the same kind of confidence from Jesus. It is because Buddha and Jesus were sure of their experience. They did not need consensus or others to verify the Truth for them. They did not have Nature magazine back then :wink: The truth was self evident to them. Just as the sun rising is self evident to us. 

Faith does not ask for proof. It is offensive to the ones they worship to ask for proof. They sometimes receive proof in the form of displays or visions. That is all they need.

Some people experience the entirety of the Truth while here on earth such as Buddha.

Many wake up every morning accepting the consensus reality as real, even after they have been fooled nightly about reality in their dreams for their entire lives. If they are so easily fooled by the dream world, then why not this one?

Buddha himself believed in God and the ultimate Truth or Realization. To be Buddhist is not just an intellectual pursuit. It is also equally a path of devotion and of the heart.

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
but not so much so that it’s so open that I abandon all good sound sober reason, knowledge, sense, & discernment.  That’s just another form of laziness & self deceit.  Wishful thinking.  How about using wishful thinking & psychedelics purely for their real benefit to health but without the wacky unreal beliefs attached afterwards?





Wacky beliefs define many world religions and spiritual beliefs that are much older than Science. Perhaps some of them are quite wacky or unreasonable in some way but most are not. Most will find deep meaning in the faiths of the world. What seems logical and reasonable to one is very much owed to the environment in which they were raised.

On wishful thinking -
Meeting God through the use of Psychedelics and coming back calling it just a dream is what I would call wishful thinking. It is wishful thinking that the world makes sense again. It is wishful thinking that logic stays logical and reason stays reasonable. It is wishful thinking that I am just a human and that all this is just crazy talk. If so I could comfortably go back to my ignorance and stay there until death. That would be wishful thinking for me.



Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
Nor does my physical body literally become as large as the Sun or as small as an atom, or multiplying my body 10,000 times or taking on the physical form of another form other than my body…. etc etc etc ….otherwise someone would’ve obviously noticed:rofl:  all an outside observer would notice is me sitting down cross legged for a long time.
So I take the nature of that kind of stuff as hallucinogenic.  Has its benefits, detriments, and uses - just like anything else.





Some Siddhis absolutely can be seen and witnessed by others. They leave many in awe. Siddhis have converted thousands instantly by their acts in years past. It is up for one to make up their own minds. Siddhis are very closely guarded by those who possess great siddhi powers and one who has them would not make a show of them. If they were to abuse such powers they would be dealt with. Desiring such powers is for the mind and mind alone. They are rooted in desire. Rooted in ego sense. All except for one. 

These subtle qualities of nature remain hidden for good reason.

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:

Or do you all not believe the Homo sapien, a mammalian primate, is not subject to the phenomena of hallucination?  That’s incredibly well documented and is reliably demonstrable & observably whomever!
Hell, everyone on this board should know that one.  The thing is hallucinations are notoriously tricky.





Yes we are all subject to hallucination that is waking reality :wink:

It is a matter of faith. I know in my heart that the things I say are true. I do not say "I think" because then I would be lying. I speak from direct experience and from the heart. I believe and have faith in the words of my Guru and inner self. Everyone is welcome to their beliefs as long as they don't hurt or impede others.

Most humans will know at the time of death what it means to have lived. It is not too late even then. But for most it will be and the cycle will continue.


Edited by wolfman42 (10/27/21 02:02 PM)

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: wolfman42]
    #27520115 - 10/27/21 11:52 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Alrighty.  I’ll edit later.



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Edited by The Blind Ass (10/27/21 01:25 PM)

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Invisiblewolfman42
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #27520237 - 10/27/21 01:39 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

We are always on the same page because you come from a place of love. That should be clear to anyone who interacts with you on these forums.

I have read enough accounts by people I trust with my life and had enough direct experience to make that leap. I cannot undo what I have seen or what I have known as truth from those I revere.

No doubt that there are many charlatans and many who do have real power but who use it unwisely. 

If I were God I would certainly make sure to keep the natural order of things. Real power in that sense must be extremely rare. Checks and balances always accounted for.

I do not seek them. But like you I know they exist.

Edited by wolfman42 (10/27/21 02:05 PM)

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: wolfman42]
    #27520271 - 10/27/21 02:04 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

:mushroom2::cool:


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #27521092 - 10/28/21 06:31 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

I can guess/influence what card will be cut one time in 3 in cribbage but my wife still usually wins.


I love telepathy and esp, but am not reliably proficient enough at it to really describe how it works, and I am not happy with any explanations so far except for an excellent sense of timing and observation.


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: redgreenvines]
    #27521160 - 10/28/21 08:05 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

I’ve known 1 truly unexplainable (thus far)  instance of sustained “telepathy” (~20mins) with 1 individual (human).  We tested it/eachother while it was going on and also couldnt help but revel in it for a bit.
For a couple of months afterwards we tried to repeat it - when we couldn’t - we tried to come up with all manner of explanations for the phenomenon by novel means and checking out much of  the conventional & unconventional explanations for it as found throughout literature in order to understand what it meant.

I found it a very cool, novel, & illuminating experience.  No exogenous drugs involved.  Both as sober as teetotalers.  Well, after all of that the other individual kept looking for answers to what had happened & more by traveling from place to place all over the world for a few years.  Gave away most of their stuff.  Moved from temple to monestary in different religions and traditions - however, eventually he gave up his search, but found the process of seeking to be good - in that he realized he didn’t have to go anywhere to understand what had happened on that fortuitous day - nor did he have to understand it at all  - and finally went back to his old life where he went back to work while studying & training to become a pilot - and guess what he found one day while up there in the sky?

A wife.  :lol:

Now he lives a relatively happy, stable, & good life with her & their child in Japan.  :cheers: :mushroom2:


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #27521198 - 10/28/21 09:02 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Telepathy is real. Been there. Very interesting. There HAS indeed been research.

https://www.atlantis-press.com/article/125961411.pdf

http://nectar.northampton.ac.uk/7048/

I would imagine effect sizes would increase significantly with psychedelics. Thats the only way I have experienced telepathy. Verifiable experiences.

Edited by Neurotech (10/28/21 09:03 AM)

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: Neurotech]
    #27521201 - 10/28/21 09:06 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Body language and other nonverbal communication are basically a form of telepathy.


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: The Mycologist]
    #27521661 - 10/28/21 02:55 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Mycologist said:
Body language and other nonverbal communication are basically a form of telepathy.




Why? They seem more like ways to suggest that telepathy may be happening when its not. They are sensory, not extra-sensory, no?

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: Neurotech]
    #27521678 - 10/28/21 03:09 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: Neurotech]
    #27521966 - 10/28/21 06:51 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Mind Meld
:whoak:


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Offlinecandyman345
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #27525599 - 10/31/21 05:36 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

ah 'telepathy'
such a sensitive subject to the physical non spiritual world


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Edited by candyman345 (11/01/21 08:03 PM)

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: BigAlHux]
    #27525963 - 11/01/21 01:43 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

I think anyone with real consistent self cultivated powers probably isn't willing to expose themselves like that because of what it requires to develop them would make them uninterested in fame and wealth but would want to seek enlightenment without a circus around them.
There are accounts out there of different people having abilities but unless you see them firsthand it's hard to believe any of it considering how many people have been tricked thruout history.

I think giving people lsd or something in the lab to try tp research this is going to almost always skew the results because it's not spontaneous.

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00788R001700210016-5.pdf

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: candyman345]
    #27525965 - 11/01/21 01:49 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

I think this goes in with intuition and knowing how to read a person's nonverbal body language. I do this quite frequently. When you can finish someone's sentences, you are sort of doing this.

I think intuition is really interesting. It's your "gut" instinct. Most people are not real in touch with their intuition, but some people are, especially empaths. I'm ultra sensitive to others' feelings and their energy/vibe. I'm also pretty good at reading people emotionally.


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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: OutsideOfMyMind]
    #27526126 - 11/01/21 08:48 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

intuition is basic brain action, while rational thinking is a very culturally and socially specific, and restrictive form of brain action.

people are so in need of acceptance that they put all their energy into the rational methods they think will best find recognition; that is how we miss our total gestalt thinking, which includes gut but is bigger than that.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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OfflineNeurotech
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: demiu5]
    #27526648 - 11/01/21 05:11 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

demiu5 said:
while two of my friends and I have a pretty uncanny ability to know, word for word, what the others are thinking while tripping, this is far from telepathy




Why is it far from telepathy? Can you hold wordless conversations? I have on LSD, Peyote and shrooms. I experience events that would be called "intuition" when not tripping, but on several trips I have had wordless conversations with fellow trippers, even when separated at some distance during the trip on one occassion.

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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: Neurotech]
    #27527097 - 11/02/21 04:58 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

we have to get out of our minds
lots of lsd and meditation
it will make you more effective and a better person
peoples mind like implode it has to get there more be more advanced


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with our love with our love we could save the world

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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: Ferdinando]
    #27533012 - 11/06/21 08:42 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

may be worth considering that:

1)  most of most peoples' thoughts are stupid:
consider those in the US government,
and in prisons just for starters ...

2)  nobody even knows what thoughts are.

3)  generally folks don't understand those smarter than themselves.

4)  folks engage in many activities to avoid thinking, like cheering like idiots with thousands of others at sports events, for hours, for just one example.

5)  nobody ever learned a subject via telepathy.

6)  nobody can manifest it on cue, in an effective way.

.  So it would seem those who take sides on the issue do so due to emotion, and belief, and not for any possible practical reason.

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OfflineKalendula

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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this shit? [Re: BigAlHux]
    #27533337 - 11/07/21 06:16 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Just wanna mention the new documentary, Third Eye Spies.


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OfflineSub-Easy
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this shit? [Re: Kalendula]
    #27533452 - 11/07/21 08:21 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

I think they don't always have luck with the experiments although some have found evidence. I can't tell you who the scientists are though.

I definitely appreciate the superiority of the telepathic language, although, unfortunately I can only understand or speak it in the trip world. If it's real, it's not very common because if we could communicate with each other telepathically, the world would be a better place. It's a beautiful language.


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Just take um like you get um.

Those ephemeral spasms of infinity, in suspended animation, born across a boundless ether of existential misery aloft a revelry (of awe) for the abhorrently sublime.

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OfflineSub-Easy
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this shit? [Re: Sub-Easy]
    #27533549 - 11/07/21 09:44 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

I also have negative feelings about acidemic science because of the politics, and negative feelings about corporations because of the greed, but I trust commercial science more than acidemia because I think greed is a more honest motivation than scientific fame and glory.


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Just take um like you get um.

Those ephemeral spasms of infinity, in suspended animation, born across a boundless ether of existential misery aloft a revelry (of awe) for the abhorrently sublime.

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Offlineshugart111
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: laughingdog]
    #27536079 - 11/08/21 09:23 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
may be worth considering that:



5)  nobody ever learned a subject via telepathy.







Research the "hundredth monkey effect." This is a phenomena that has been repeated several times in a laboratory environment. The basic premise is you take one group of 1000 rats fly half to one side of the world, the other half to the other. You teach Group 1 rats how to navigate a specific maze through several generations. Each generation of Group 1 rats can now navigate through the maze faster and faster, which is to be expected. However what scientists have discovered is that even the Group 2 rats will experience the same increase in speed in navigation through the maze the FIRST time they ever encounter the maze, even though they have never physically seen the maze and they are thousands of miles away from Group 1 rats.

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Offlinejayleno1
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: shugart111]
    #27538657 - 11/11/21 01:20 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

i have over 10 years of meditation via aypsite dot org and have mystical experiences regarding my thoughts and others dreams.

What i think, others: my wife, mother, other family members, dream it.
ive also dreamt accidents and deaths in friends or family, the night of the accident/death. (both happened at overnight)

ive had dreams i had years before, make sense, and in 20-20 retrospection, realize that the dreams became/were describing an event that i lived PRECISELY years later. (precisely relatively, as in the dream was in dreamspeak, dream structure, the way dreams are nonreal, with events violating time and physics, but once deconstructed through meaning, it was 100% on the mark)

If this is possible, telepathy depends mainly on both parties (they dont meditate) being receptive.

or like when my brother and i were on MDMA, i had this noetic feeling, as i was on my bed, TRYING to go to sleep, (couldnt, was still rolling), my brother was showering in the restroom between our rooms. I had this  noetic feeling like we melded. So I said internally "if you can hear me knock 3 times".

I will never be the same after 1 second later he knocked 3 times on the wall.

After that happened, I was shocked. I stayed pondering reality and constructed many beliefs that night. The next morning however, I asked him if he "heard me". I told him what i had experienced. He said he had no idea of it all. Weird.

Mind you, because of this, and followup experiences, is why I desperately searched for a path, and landed on aypsite dot org. It hasnt disappointed.

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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: jayleno1]
    #27539298 - 11/11/21 01:24 PM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Seems like a branch of crystal healing.

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OfflineSub-Easy
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #27539960 - 11/12/21 12:17 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

Oh, and to answer your question, any scientists that claim they found evidence of telepathy have been ridiculed by acidemia. So most don't get into it.


--------------------
Just take um like you get um.

Those ephemeral spasms of infinity, in suspended animation, born across a boundless ether of existential misery aloft a revelry (of awe) for the abhorrently sublime.

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OfflineDefacto2
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Re: Why has telepathy yet to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt? Where is the research into this s [Re: goodfryfinn]
    #27540081 - 11/12/21 05:00 AM (2 years, 4 months ago)

lol

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