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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Gypsum, Rye Grain

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Offlinekykeon
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Well...?
    #716975 - 07/02/02 01:03 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Hello all

my jars [EQ - GT] are waiting there 9 dayz with no sign of anything at all. At day 5,
a small test cake [GT] that i had made along with the jars showed up a V shaped
mycelium... since then is not expanding at all. It happened one day and stopped. No sign of contamination also, i was extremely cautious. Used polyfill on lids and then placed the cake and jars inside a terrarium, which was cleared with dettol thoroughly. The cake wasnt correctly prepared [too small - rye flour wasnt so fine] so lets say that this is the fault, but it proves that the GT strain i got is not dead.

I know i dont show any patience at all, but i get worried, for the jars are weird. The upper grains are starting to be almost dry while at the bottom the grains are extremely wet, so wet that i am afraid it soon gonna be rot. Its somehow normal as i see it to happen, for the water goes up and evaporates eventually, but if this non-showing of the mycelium continue the next dayz, half of the grains will be contaminated and the other half will be too dry to attract the mycelium...

Is there something i can do now except from waiting?
It may be that the jars cant breathe easily? We reached day 9 btw and no sign of contamination which means that i have done a fair enough sterilization, is that right? Dunno...

I mean i dont have problem to wait for another 10 dayz to pass by, its just that as long as it takes it will be more easily to be contaminated, right? Note also that the cake was innoculated at four points and only one showed up such a strength mycelium [its sooooo white!] the other places are soooo little...

if someone can help me it will be much appreciated!!!!

Meneercactus says that sometimes it starts and then stops and then starts again. I am sure he is right, but i feel anxious if contamination will occur. Can i speed up the situation? Maybe innoculating some more... ?

Peace

Kykeon
athens, greece


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Invisiblepuscle
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Re: Well...? [Re: kykeon]
    #716987 - 07/02/02 01:26 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

You jar`s prognosis is not good. Youv'e either screwed up the water content or your grain is rotting. (bacillus)


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Offlinekykeon
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Re: Well...? [Re: puscle]
    #716998 - 07/02/02 02:00 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I have used 50% rye and 50% water. Sterilized for 1 1/2 hours. Liiiitle water left on jars but it was useful as the upper grains were dry after the sterilization. I suppose that if my jars were contaminated, it would have showed by now... my first trial ended with contaminated with bacteria jars, from the third day. Now its day 9 and no bad smell or anything... yet.

kykeon
athens, greece


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Offlinemycochip
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Re: Well...? [Re: kykeon]
    #717030 - 07/02/02 02:33 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

try turning ure jars upside down that might help with the drying of the top and too much moisture on the bottom I dont know what else too tell u cause i am rather new to all this Stuuff Good LuCk Zito y Ellada!!!!!! And God Bless America


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Invisiblepuscle
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Re: Well...? [Re: kykeon]
    #717036 - 07/02/02 02:37 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

As soon as you see that grain go gooey, you might as well toss'em.


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OfflineMeneerCactus
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Re: Well...? [Re: kykeon]
    #717083 - 07/02/02 03:02 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

High Kykeon,

Do you remember me telling you that after inoculation your realy start wondering.
It is so nice to see you walk the well know path

Mycelium growth depends on a few factors, like the amount of spores that is inoculated, the temperture, etc (all to be found in the FAQ).
How big are your jars? I always pc my jars (720ml) for 1 hours starting from the moment the pressure thing is sissing. Once I overdid and a lot of kernels were exploded.

About the water, maybe try to use some less next time. The rye I get from the windmill is each time different in relation to water absorbtion. So my first jar is a kind of tester.

Last time I bought rye at the windmill the miller asked me if it was for cultivating shrooms. He told me that those guys always come over and buy 200kg at once
He realy made me smile, nice understanding man

About rot... Can it after pc-ing the rye?

Are you using polyfill in the lid? Did you realy close the hole with polyfill?
I know some-one who just plugged in some(less) so air could pass easy. He got contamed.

So far from me...


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"Millions of years of evolution just to .... light up a joint"


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Offlinekykeon
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Re: Well...? [Re: mycochip]
    #717178 - 07/02/02 04:31 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Kai esy ellinas? xexe
check out http://www.kykeon.com.free.new.net


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Offlinekykeon
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Re: Well...? [Re: MeneerCactus]
    #717186 - 07/02/02 04:36 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Hello MisterCactus

i made a hole with a screwdriver and stuffed some polyfill in it. It was that much that it cannot go out easily but yet the needle of the syringe passed through with great ease. After that, i closed them with alu foil. All this into the PC.

After sterilization, the grains were expanded and some of them [many] must have been exploded, showing their white inside. The jar is almost full, there is not much free space in there i am afraid. When do you think that i will start worrying that nothing will happen? I mean if they stay like that, with no contamination. What can i do about that dry/wet grains?

I think i will make a proper cake tonight. At least the cake produces some mycelium. But why did it stop? Uh...

thanx for the repliez guyz

i will keep u informed

Kykeon
athens, greece


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Offlinekykeon
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Re: Well...? [Re: MeneerCactus]
    #717211 - 07/02/02 05:13 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

A thought just popped in my head.

Is it possible that i overcooked the jars during the sterilization, so that the rye then is baked somehow, and the mycelium dont like that??

Kykeon
athens, greece


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OfflineMeneerCactus
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Re: Well...? [Re: kykeon]
    #717243 - 07/02/02 05:28 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

High Wicked Kykeon,

If the kernels explode, there is less air between the kernels. This space is needed for good mycelium growth.
About baking the rye... as long as the are in water the will not reache that temperature at all.

Just keep on experimenting and learning? If you run out of spores, let me know




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"Millions of years of evolution just to .... light up a joint"


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Invisiblecontaman
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Re: Well...? [Re: kykeon]
    #717270 - 07/02/02 06:07 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

--I have used 50% rye and 50% water. Sterilized for 1 1/2 hours. Liiiitle water left on jars but it was useful as the upper grains were dry after the sterilization.

I just saw this! Is this the entire makeup of your jars (rye /water)? If so, these are not considered cakes, instead, whole grain. You said nothing about shaking your jars. With whole grain, after pc'ing, the top will always appear dry and the bottom wet. The jars must be shaken while still hot in order to make the moisture content more homogeneous.


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Offlinekykeon
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Re: Well...? [Re: contaman]
    #717276 - 07/02/02 06:14 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)



i said about jars and a small test cake.

jars are 50/50 rye/water and were shaken very well while hot, so yeah, the moisture become homogenus at that time. But now, 9 dayz after, the same effect happens: upper grains dry, lower grains veeeeery wet... that is why i am afraid of contam... [it has not yet contaminated]

do you think i should shake the jars again now? i mean that will solve the moisture problem and i dont see how it could affect the mycelium [which is nowhere to be seen yet...]

thanx

Kykeon
athens, greece



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Invisiblecontaman
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Re: Well...? [Re: kykeon]
    #717302 - 07/02/02 06:39 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

The initial shaking right after being taken out of the pc should be good enough for the moisture distribution. If there is water actually accumulating in the bottoms of the jars, your water ratio was definitely off. But if the top has dried out, and the bottom (wet part) has stayed the same, I would say your polyfilled hole is too big. Are you seeing greasy looking wet spots in the bottom of the jar? if so this is bacteria! I would suggest, next time, traying to alter your grain/water content a little, and covering your polifilled lids with AL foil (take it off just before the first shaking, a day or two after the first growth).

Like you said, It won't hurt anything to shake your jars at this point, but if after shaking, you wind up with greasy shit all over the sides of the jars, just dump em.

Just keep at it, and everything will get much easier!!


Edited by contaman (07/02/02 06:43 AM)


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Well...? [Re: kykeon]
    #717350 - 07/02/02 07:33 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

>the grains were expanded and some of them [many] must >have been exploded, showing their white inside. The jar is
>almost full, there is not much free space in there i am afraid.

Parapoli nero einai, mipos pio poly.

Thelis 100 grammaria [rye] kai 110 grammaria nero gia ena miso litro potiri[?].

Kai, then eimai ellinas.


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Offlinekykeon
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Re: Well...? [Re: Anno]
    #718860 - 07/02/02 10:12 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

hey u speak greek...

so u think that i should try next time with more water...

i think i am gonna throw my jars today...

an URGENT question:

for extra protection i have put the jars + cake inside my plastic box which was thoroughly cleared with Dettol and even put some on the rim of the lid, so that when it was closed, almost no air could possibly get inside without being filtered by Dettol. When i am opening the box, the smell of Dettol is still present, 10 dayz later. DO YOU THINK THAT THE DETTOL IN THE AIR COULD HAVE HALTED / STOPPED THE MYCELIUM ? I have new cakes now, do you think i should put them in a cleared with dettol box or not? The temperature inside it is 27-29 C.



Kykeon


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OfflinePapa_Bear
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Re: Well...? [Re: kykeon]
    #718897 - 07/02/02 10:44 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

just started 4 Quart jars 5 days ago...2 rye, 2 whole wheat. B+, TC's, PR's and PES Hawaiian. Baby Bear used 1 cup grain/ 1 cup spring water.1/2 teaspoon gypsum.pc'd for 45 mins. .this mix works well for the rye everytime, the wheat was a little on the moist side (1st time using wheat). mycellium growth was 60% in all the jars except the PES Hawaiians which are in the wheat. The mycellium was clumped together and spotty. they incubated at 85-90 deg. F. She used micro filter disc covered with foil, without the lid, just the ring to hold the disc. haven't had a problem with dryness. can't understand from your post what the problem may have been.except not enough water? Try again like Anno says use a little more water...good luck!


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Well...? [Re: kykeon]
    #719505 - 07/03/02 06:23 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

>so u think that i should try next time with more water...

No, I have the impression you used too much water.
You should try a little less next time.


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Offlinekykeon
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Re: Well...? [Re: Anno]
    #721766 - 07/04/02 02:25 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Okee Anno, i will try less water next time in my jars.

But lets discuss the issue now. My first attempt was contaminated from the second day; my fault for letting loose lids on jars. Okee

The second attempt produced nothing. For the moment, i have not yet tossed away the jars, for inside there is sign of nothing at all. [there is a sign of a pre-mature contaminated issue, but it appeared on day 9 so i suppose my method was somehow better than the first attempt, right?] We also have the fact that the cake produced a mycelium which stopped growing the next day of its appearance.

Possible explanations:

a) the temp inside the box is constant 29 C. I have read that it should not exceed 27 C.

b) i used too much water in jars.

c) some kind of contamination had happened [we have reached day 11] which is yet unnoticeable but it had stopped everything good.

d) i am very unlucky

e) my spores are somehow 'slow movers' and when it was about time to do something, it was too late.

f) dettol [which was used to clear the box and the air inside it] killed everything due to breathing procedures. When i first opened the box to check out at day 5 the mycelium which appeared on the test cake, air exchange send bacteria inside the box, the dettol was almost evaporated by day 5 and so with dead spores in jars and a very young mycelium on cake was attacked by contaminants and halted everything.

Ouf... Does anyone have an opinion on my post? THANX!!!!

Kykeon
athens, greece

ps: am i going to have my shrooms ever?
ps2: hot hot hot we do have 37 C at the moment... phew... how is the weather in the low lands Mr.Cactus? lol


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Edited by kykeon (07/04/02 02:27 AM)


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Amazon Shop for: ½ Pint Jars, Gypsum, Rye Grain

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