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InvisibleBlutjager
Inhuman
Male

Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
Re: Whats the big deal with proper procedure? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7161775 - 07/11/07 04:00 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
It will be the way that leads to the highest return for your investment in time and materials.
RR




Its easy to agree with RR but man I have to say :rockon: to this

Take the extra steps to insure success unless you are just being experimental and don't care about success at all,sloppy tek=sloppy results,plain and simple

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Offlinefiggusfiddus
Arrogant Worm
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Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 2,126
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Re: Whats the big deal with proper procedure? [Re: ChristianTaylor5]
    #7162043 - 07/11/07 04:58 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ChristianTaylor5 said:
I guess I wont change my laziness until I run into some bad luck though.




I didn't. Until I did. :smile: And I made a post almost identical to this a few months back. I did change my methods, but I didn't completely change my mind. Sterility is important, but it's more important to know where it counts.

Really, people fret over the littlest thing--like getting a drop of water on their cakes, for instance. Especially at the fruiting stage, these people are just nuts; once it's colonized, it's golden, unless you start smearing it with stuff from your litter box. Inoculating in a glove box, on the other hand, isn't "nuts", but it's excessive, at least in my experience. I suspect that most sterility problems don't just pop up on people's needles while they're injecting; I think most infections don't come from a teensy handful of accidental bacteria, but a whole truckload that got in while people were paying attention to the little crap. I've never seen mold in vitro (exception was some reaaaally suspect LC), and I've never had a cake contaminate more than 5% with bacteria unless I fucked up the substrate in some way. The 5% contamination was only once--and that was due to forgetting the verm layer.

Casings are another matter. Mold eats casings for breakfast. But still--that's more of a lesson in pH control and such than sterility, since when you're working with bulk, a lot of materials are pasteurized, not sterile.

Most of all, it's just important for people to realize when sterility does matter and when it doesn't. Tools and surfaces are fine with an alcohol wash--to me, the people who PC syringes aren't solving anything a dose of isopropyl won't do just as well and twenty times as quickly. Generally, we all only have so much patience. Why waste it where it doesn't count? I'd rather save my patience for the parts of the job that are actually delicate.


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Offlinehyphae
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Registered: 12/13/02
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Re: Whats the big deal with proper procedure? [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7162935 - 07/11/07 08:28 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

FYI I grew nothing but molds when I first started back in the early seventies. Are you experienced well I am in a Hendrix way! I know what can happen setting yourself up for failure is not intelligent this is what separates the novice from the pros nothing less.
BTW I'm talking to all those who question a valid sterile culture technique.


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Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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Offlineelpinoman
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Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 187
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: Whats the big deal with proper procedure? [Re: hyphae]
    #7163880 - 07/11/07 11:18 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

i am getting lazy but i mean i would never imagine not even washing my hands LMAFO

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OfflineSeventy
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Registered: 05/24/07
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Re: Whats the big deal with proper procedure? [Re: elpinoman]
    #7164273 - 07/12/07 12:22 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I thought the title to this topic was a joke  :dielaughing:

I've gone through preparing/inoculating plenty of BRF jars lately and if anything my techniques have gotten better, not more lazy. I haven't had a contaminated jar yet, save for the jars that were waterlogged in the boiling process with my first PFs.

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InvisibleCorporal Kielbasa

Registered: 05/29/04
Posts: 17,235
Re: Whats the big deal with proper procedure? [Re: ChristianTaylor5]
    #7164427 - 07/12/07 01:09 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

ChristianTaylor5 said:
You know, when I first came to the shroomery all the information was little intimidating. But after sifting through the site and getting down to the fundamentals growing seemed pretty easy. However, when going through others threads a lot of members seemed to talk of it as if it were the hardest thing in the world. What with all the sterilization procedures and exact environment control requirements one would have to go through before having a successful grow.

Now I know a lot of these sterilization techniques and environment requirements need to be implemented when performing some of the more complex tasks involved with mushrooms (i.e. some of the crazy shit RR gets into). But c'mon, when just trying to cultivate it is really easy. At least in my experience.

For example, many members talk of only injecting their jars in glove boxes. I have never had anything contaminate except for one time which was due to my TiT getting a crack in the bottom allowing water to flood into the top tub submerging half my jars in water.

I don't know what kind of filth some people are living in but I had no problem injecting, spawning and harvesting right in my kitchen after a thorough spray of some disinfectant and a little alcohol. Maybe I'm just lucky or have a white thumb.

Don't get me wrong, I also did a lot of research and wouldn't have been able to accomplish anything if it wasn't for the shroomery. Just saying a lot of threads here made me over prepare my first time, as I got progressively lazier I realized a lot of those EXTRA precautions were unnecessary for myself.

Anyway, not trying to go off on a tangent here, just thought it was a little weird how much emphasis people put on this type of thing.

Later.

-CT




Aw man you figured it out. See the big guys like to make it sound so ruff. Trying to intimidate the uninitiated. It's like the secrets, the techniques the simple tricks of the trade. But to the novice or the simple on looker it looks like you're a magician. See the hardest step is always the first. Once you get in stride it's simply one foot after the other. Take the path as long as you like. It's either ghetto phab or mental masturbation.

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OfflineChristianTaylor5
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Registered: 06/28/07
Posts: 195
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
Re: Whats the big deal with proper procedure? [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #7164723 - 07/12/07 02:39 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

My bad, some of you guys seem a little pissed. I wasn't trying to down on proper procedure, rather just trying to get an idea on why I have only had successful injections, propagation, and harvest without applying the proper procedure.

It is just that with my current procedure, I have never received any contaminated jars. With the exception of the time I had a TiT malfunction.

Hey RR, what you said about optimizing yield sparked a question. If I were to not incubate my jars and keep them in a 65-75 degree environment would there be a possibility of this hurting my final yield?

Later,

-CT

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Registered: 03/26/03
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Re: Whats the big deal with proper procedure? [Re: ChristianTaylor5]
    #7165214 - 07/12/07 09:11 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Temperatures below about 72F will greatly slow down colonization. 'Normal' room temp works fine, which is a temp in the mid 70F range, up to about 80F.
RR


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Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 2,126
Loc: Figgus, Fiddia
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Re: Whats the big deal with proper procedure? [Re: ChristianTaylor5]
    #7166904 - 07/12/07 04:25 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Total possible yield isn't affected by colonization temperature. It's a function of substrate nutrients and moisture.

RR is on the mark when it comes to temperature (not that that should be a surprise to anyone). I incubated at 83-86F for the colonization of my first grow, and while I was lucky enough not to see any contamination as a result, I certainly saw slower growth. It was RR who I first saw talking about colonization in the 70s being ideal, and I am glad I took his advice for future grows. It's cut a solid week off colonization times for many grows.


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Edited by figgusfiddus (07/12/07 04:28 PM)

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OfflineChristianTaylor5
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Registered: 06/28/07
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Re: Whats the big deal with proper procedure? [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7167417 - 07/12/07 06:39 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Good info guys, thanks.

-CT

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Invisiblemycocurious
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Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 1,265
Re: Whats the big deal with proper procedure? [Re: ChristianTaylor5]
    #7167773 - 07/12/07 07:46 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

here's the way I look at it, indoor cultivation of mushrooms - specifically the common button mushroom - is only a little over 100 years old to begin with.  Before that it was luck of the draw, find them where we can.

Many species, such as truffles and amanita muscaria, probably won't ever be able to be cultivated indoors and - in the case of truffles - we barely understand how to cultivate them outdoors.

--
It's only recently that good, repeatable, solid techniques have emerged and begun to replace the voodoo/myths etc, regarding the industry - for lack of a better term.

There's nothing wrong with "making do" and "doing without" on some of the finer points but we're still talking about a process where contaminates are common - and very, very dangerous to us.

:justdontknow:

The rest is up to you...


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:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
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figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.

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