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 LordSenate
One of the Lost
 
Registered: 09/15/02
Posts: 37,093
Loc: First Circle of Hell
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 Re: I've been thinking of adding a little meat to my diet  [Re: Veritas]
#7148332 - 07/08/07 09:13 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Im sorry I did not intend to say that you should go somewhere else, as in another forum.
I meant if you wanted a debate, I would not be the one to give you one. That is all, so i am really sorry if you misunderstood me. So when i said move on, i didnt intend it the way that you read it.
Don't take anything I said as me being negative to you, on the contrary I actually like your posts.
I know all about the problems you mentioned with mercury. I said that I personally don't see any major problems arising from someone eating certain types of meat in moderation.
Like I said there are A LOT of things that have yet to be proven to be beneficial or not with meat.
I honestly do not see any healthy person having any severe problems in their life time from eating meat moderately.
I also said both diets have pro's and con's, i will stick by that.
I don't want to get into a huge debate. Just understand that i am not advocating someone eating meat (as i can tell you feel strongly on the subject). Nor do i support an all vegan diet. Im also not against either of them.
I just feel in my honest opinion that I do not see it affecting someone takes care of their body and doesnt eat exessive amounts meat.
I see that you feel strongly about the subject, but like i said i stick by my opinion whether it is justified by 'research' or not. I did not ONCE say that meat was better then a vegan diet, nor did anyone else. That is all i was trying to say.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: I've been thinking of adding a little meat to my diet [Re: LordSenate]
#7148388 - 07/08/07 09:22 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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OK, that's fine. I've probably read very different literature regarding the negative effects of even moderate meat consumption, so I can understand your POV. At this point, even the "mainstream" is beginning to support the idea that meat consumption is unnecessary and hazardous to your health. This is after decades of evidence being presented (and ignored), but better late than never. 
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LordSenate
One of the Lost
Registered: 09/15/02
Posts: 37,093
Loc: First Circle of Hell
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Re: I've been thinking of adding a little meat to my diet [Re: Veritas]
#7148469 - 07/08/07 09:32 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Personally I love certain types of meat, and could care less the negative effects, I'm pretty positive i will still live longer then what i could even want to.
I'm not trying to instill my feelings in anybody else, just my POV as you say. I'm all for everyone else being more healthy, and doing what they want.
I know that meat isn't currently impacting my help, and any issues i may come up with because of it, will more then likely all be pretty minor issues.
I seriously doubt that meat is going to be even remotely CLOSE to the contributing factor of mine or anyone elses death. I can guarantee i feel just as good as anyone with an all vegan diet, as long as i am taking care of my body, even when i am eating meat.
Keep in mind more often then not, i am not meating eat. But even if i did, like i said, i dont see it playing much of a role in anything.
Literature aside, there are way to many other serious issues this day and age that will more then likely arise long before anything else.
Once again im not trying to push meat consumption off on anyone else, i dont think it would really matter how much i DID read. I still would feel the same way, Ive read tons of research on tons of different things that always make everything sound so bad, and im not saying they aren't, but more often then not they either aren't as serious as they sound. Or they never cause a problem that is not fixable.
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: I've been thinking of adding a little meat to my diet [Re: LordSenate]
#7148552 - 07/08/07 09:45 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
i dont think it would really matter how much i DID read. I still would feel the same way, Ive read tons of research on tons of different things that always make everything sound so bad, and im not saying they aren't, but more often then not they either aren't as serious as they sound. Or they never cause a problem that is not fixable.
Hmm...like smoking cigarettes, for example?  People were pretty reluctant to believe the research linking cigarette smoking to disease and death, too. Some still are.
Quote:
I can guarantee i feel just as good as anyone with an all vegan diet, as long as i am taking care of my body, even when i am eating meat.
How can you guarantee this?  You might be able to compare your experience on a vegan diet to your experience on a meat-inclusive diet, but how can you possibly guarantee that you feel as good as someone who is eating a vegan diet?
I've been vegetarian on-and-off my whole life, and so I have no problem comparing my health with/without meat. Have you ever been vegan? Whom do you know who is currently vegan? To what standard of well-being are you comparing yourself?
IMO, the only way to really know is to try different ways of eating for yourself, give it some time, and see how your energy level & general health respond. The research is great for suggesting potential experiments you can try in your own "life lab."
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LordSenate
One of the Lost
Registered: 09/15/02
Posts: 37,093
Loc: First Circle of Hell
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Re: I've been thinking of adding a little meat to my diet [Re: Veritas]
#7148592 - 07/08/07 09:52 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ive tried a vegan diet, albiet a long time ago. I have tried, i did NOT say that i have not tried it ^_^.
Perhaps i may have approached it wrong, nor do i even remember what i was eating.. It was THAT long ago, really.
So understand im not comparing them without any sort of experience at all.
As for your original question, its impossible to know that, you know this, i knew that when i posted it lol. It's impossible to compare how i feel with how anyone else feels because we are all going to respond differently.
--------------------------
If i or anyone else DID try to go on a vegan diet, what would you suggest to try, what has and what has not worked for you in your experience?
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: I've been thinking of adding a little meat to my diet [Re: LordSenate]
#7148673 - 07/08/07 10:04 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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OK, just wanted to clarify.
What has not worked for me on a vegan diet in the past was:
1. Not eating enough fat. This lead to my feeling hungry ALL THE TIME, and having major cravings for dairy and meat.
2. Continuing to eat refined flour and sugar products while eliminating meat. This really messed up my blood sugar levels, and I felt tired too often.
3. Not including enough variety. Eating steamed carrots, brown rice, pinto beans & salad every day is BORING. Now I make sure that my diet varies daily, and that my food tastes terrific.
4. Not planning ahead. Convenience foods are rarely health-promoting, and wayyyy too easy. When I did not plan meals, shop regularly, prep. things in advance when I was having a busy week, I would either go hungry or eat something fast & greasy.
That includes all my main "do's and don'ts" for enjoying a vegan diet. It does take a bit more effort than eating what the majority eat, but I think that it is very worthwhile.
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LordSenate
One of the Lost
Registered: 09/15/02
Posts: 37,093
Loc: First Circle of Hell
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Re: I've been thinking of adding a little meat to my diet [Re: Veritas]
#7148700 - 07/08/07 10:10 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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So i guess it depends on the circumstances. I for one probably would not survive with a vegan diet in the current situation i am in, even if i wanted to be vegan.
My work schedule is so erratic that it could change at any given second, i could be gone 24 hours, or i could be gone 8 and come home.. I could go home and come back 3 hours later, or not go home until i was finished.
Anything short of bringing the food to work with me, would not work. Even then i probably would not be satisfied hunger wise.
That and preparing and getting things ahead of time though i do this with most thigns would cost far to much time at this point in my life.
Though i am not throwing the idea out of being my life at all, at some point in time i would like to try again.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: I've been thinking of adding a little meat to my diet [Re: Veritas]
#7149910 - 07/09/07 03:56 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm no nutrition expert but here's my take on it:
1. Is it possible to get all of the needed fat, protein, and nutrients that you need and to be strong from a plant-based diet? Yes...but it is very difficult and very expensive.
2. Every single vegetarian/vegan I know is in poor shape. They are either overweight because they eat crap (to compensate for the lack of fat) or underweight because they don't eat enough protein.
3. I feel my best when I eat a balanced diet that includes lean dairy and healthy lean meat (like fish, chicken, and lean beef).
4. With my high metabolism I need to eat high calorie foods or I start to lose weight. If I don't eat meat for several days I feel weak.
5. Most Americans eat too much meat and the meat they eat is of very low quality. This is not healthy at all. People need to start eating a lot more whole grains, fruits, and vegetables.
6. Meat is tasty. 
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Veritas
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: I've been thinking of adding a little meat to my diet [Re: RandalFlagg]
#7150558 - 07/09/07 09:58 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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1. It does not have to be difficult OR expensive (when compared to a non-junk food diet which includes meat and dairy products.) I am a single mother raising two kids without any financial assistance from their father, so my food budget is VERY small. If I can afford it, I know that others can.
2. Nearly all the balanced vegans I've met are in terrific shape, look many years younger than their biological age, have amazing amounts of energy, and maintain a healthy weight without counting calories. Perhaps you are meeting people with eating disorders, who are using the excuse of veganism to cover up their problems?
3. How do you know that you feel your "best"? If you have always eaten meat and dairy, or only experimented with an unbalanced vegan diet, then you may not know what your "best" feels like.
4. There are plenty of high-calorie foods that do not involve cutting off a chunk of animal, or nursing at the teat of one. Nuts, seeds, coconut oil and milk, tofu, tempeh, olives...just to name a few.
5. Agreed. If you're going to eat meat, it absolutely should be organic, free-range and lean. Just as if you're going to smoke cigarettes, they should be organic tobacco without chemical additives.
6. Also agreed. If it wasn't tasty, why the hell would we consider eating it in the first place? I mean, really, if we were not acculturated to the idea of eating the "aged" (aka partially rancid), cooked flesh of other living beings, wouldn't we say "ewwww....gross"? 
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 o9o
Fire
Registered: 06/27/07
Posts: 81
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
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Re: I've been thinking of adding a little meat to my diet [Re: freddurgan]
#7161012 - 07/11/07 01:58 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ask yourself why are you a vegetarian? Why dont you eat meat? If your body craves it.. it might actually need it. The best thing you can do is get meat from a local farm where the animals live the good life. There is nothing wrong with meat. It is the way of life. Slaughter factories that raise animals in pens is wrong... thats greedy people.
Eat humanly raised meat. You can eat meat everyday.. theres nothing wrong with it.
one life gives for another in an unending chain
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LordSenate
One of the Lost
Registered: 09/15/02
Posts: 37,093
Loc: First Circle of Hell
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Re: I've been thinking of adding a little meat to my diet [Re: o9o]
#7161032 - 07/11/07 02:02 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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I dont see any difference between raising them in 'pens' or raising them out in the open, you are still raising them with the intention of slaughtering them.
They are both 'slaughter factories'
they are both making money.. i don't think about either one, i really dont care.
i will eat meat regardless....
but they both raise animals with the intention of killing them for profit, where is the difference?
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eligal
Noobie
Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 7,021
Loc: California
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Re: I've been thinking of adding a little meat to my diet [Re: LordSenate]
#7166289 - 07/12/07 01:56 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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You could also argue that we are all born to die. What matters is how we live until our time is up.
Do you want to be locked in a box until your time is up?
Or out in the field?
--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/
"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"
"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"
"tactik said:
respect the can."
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LordSenate
One of the Lost
Registered: 09/15/02
Posts: 37,093
Loc: First Circle of Hell
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Re: I've been thinking of adding a little meat to my diet [Re: eligal]
#7166785 - 07/12/07 03:50 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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never really thought about it like that.
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