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 Traveller
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 fingerprints of the gods - lost civilisations? 
#716478 - 07/01/02 05:56 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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hello again!
yeah so over the past few years i've been hearing about this and that - rainfall erosion on the sphinx, ancient stone city(?) found underwater south of japan...etc and recently i realised that this one guy's name kept cropping up whenever there was a new discovery: graham hancock. so then on discovery channel i saw a three part series called "lost civilisations" and there's mr hancock travelling to nazca, la venta, egypt, easter island, stonehenge...all these places with real old buildings made from big stones and no one can remember who made them. so i was pleased a couple of weeks ago when one of the crazy englishmen on the (fantastic, peaceful, beautiful!!!) island beach in thailand i was staying started talking about it and lent me this book "fingerprints of the gods" by Mr. Graham Hancock. which i read through real quick in between long stretches swimming in the ocean, eating ridiculous amounts of delicious thai fruit, and smoking very large quantities of cheap and tasty ganja.
I'm sure many people here have also read this book, and have also heard about many of these discoveries and theories...
what do you think? i mean it definately seems plausible to me (that there was a civilisation with advanced mathematics, excellent knowledge of the stars, planets, earth and moon and all of their cyclical movements, and even the ability to map the entire earth....), but graham just seems to want to believe his own theory so much that he often leaps to conclusions and says that some piece of evidence "obviously" means this or that...trying to lead his readers into sharing his views.
like the "olmec heads" he says are "obviously negroid" in appearance, but when i first saw them i thought "hey they look like fijians!" or maori, or pacific islanders....definately not anything like modern (or 16th century) south americans.
anyway i'm going down to watch a crap movie, please post any thoughts on this topic, and especially links to anything with information about this stuff. 
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Anonymous
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Re: fingerprints of the gods - lost civilisations? [Re: Traveller]
#716507 - 07/01/02 06:19 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well... my basic belief is that the hominoid beings from the 12th planet built most of these massive structures in absurd places.
Take a look at X Facts
There's Machu Picchu... Tikal in Guatamala... Ollantaytambo in Peru...
Some more links:
Sacred Site Essences
Sacred Sites
PaoWeb1
PaoWeb2
I do what I can
Namaste
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groingrinder
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Re: fingerprints of the gods - lost civilisations? [Re: Traveller]
#716861 - 07/01/02 08:46 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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found underwater south of japan
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Funny you should mention this. When I was a kid growing up on Okinawa in the mid sixties there were rumors always floating around about this place.
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Let's not confuse truth with reality.
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 Swami
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Re: fingerprints of the gods - lost civilisations? [Re: ]
#716960 - 07/01/02 10:37 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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What is an "absurd place"?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Traveller
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Re: fingerprints of the gods - lost civilisations? [Re: groingrinder]
#716962 - 07/01/02 10:39 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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yeah there's also the japanese legend of the lost continent of "Mu", i've heard rumours of an ancient okinawan kingdom as well, and not from hippies but from my jujutsu sensei...he didn't say much, just that okinawan culture is much older than japanese.
and in the museums and art books and stuff here in japan, the oldest period is known as the "jomon" period, and is basically 10,000 BC and earlier...the archaeological finds that have been dated as being from this period are limited to pottery (as far as i have seen). it's interested me before because the jomon pottery is really cool! like really nice complex geometric patterns and cool shaped water pots and things...but then the stuff that comes later, like 6000 BC, is back to crude baked clay like a kid could make, purely functional.
i don't have time now but i'll check those links soon shroomism...they won't all be 12th planet this nephilim pleiadian that will they?
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Xlea321
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Re: fingerprints of the gods - lost civilisations? [Re: Traveller]
#717445 - 07/02/02 07:06 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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There was a programme on recently debunking Hancock - saying how his ideas about the pyramids lining up along certain lines of stars was complete nonsense. I'd take everything Hancock says with a very large pinch of salt and do your own research. Interesting ideas, little basis in reality.
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Don't worry, B. Caapi
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Anonymous
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Re: fingerprints of the gods - lost civilisations? [Re: Swami]
#717481 - 07/02/02 07:35 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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What is an "absurd place"?
Well...I should have said absurd sizes... but here is an example or two
Located 8,000 feet above sea level, Maccu Picchu was constructed out of massive stone blocks with great precision. Studies indicate it would be impossible for conventional means to lift the stones from quarries far down the mountains to such incredible heights. Also, the structures include a series of alignments which measure the precession of the equinoxes.
The grand city of Tikal covers over 222 square miles in a thick inhospitable tropical jungle. There are more than 4,000 structures in Tikal some over 200 feet tall! The oldest date from the Pre-classic period (800 BC), and the most recent from the Post-classic period (900 AD). Science, mathematics, astronomy, agriculture, art and architecture even socio-politics and economics were developed by the Maya. Their highly advanced hieroglyphics seam to appear over night divulging precise calendars based on many celestial events that could not even be seen with the naked eye. Evidence show that they also had advance systems of surgery and dentistry.
Baalbek
This MASSIVE ~3 million square foot stone platform contains huge stones, including "The Trilithons? which each weigh ~1200 tons, that?s 2.4 million pounds. Much later, the Greeks and Romans built their temples on top of it. Legend has it that the Sun god helios landed upon the platform with his fire chariot. The site is also described in the ancient flood tale of Gilgamesh.
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groingrinder
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Re: fingerprints of the gods - lost civilisations? [Re: Traveller]
#717695 - 07/02/02 09:08 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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But what about Coral Garden in Florida? That was built quite recently and not by Nephilim either. If a modern man could move around giant stones with only hand tools, mabey early man could do it too?
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Let's not confuse truth with reality.
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GRTUD
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Loc: United States
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Re: fingerprints of the gods - lost civilisations? [Re: Traveller]
#718445 - 07/02/02 04:40 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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What fascinates me most about these stories is the fact that many of us would believe the most outlandish possibilities without considering the most plausible. My grandparents just recently passed away and when they were gone, I realized that they took much of the information about my life, where our family originated, how we came to the area we live, etc., with them. I had realized this about 3 years ago and began asking some questions but foolishly did not write down everything they said. They were alive for Pearl Harbor and WWII; they remember first hand segregation, the news reports from Nazi Germany and the concentration camps. My grandfather served in the South Pacific and got to shake General Macarthur's hand. My great grandfather worked on the Golden Gate Bridge and several other national landmarks during the early part of the 20th century. I could have been more interested (I was interested and did work on several restorations of National landmarks during the 1980's as a stone mason apprentice) and asked more questions of people who really knew, first hand what happened and how things happened but I was young and a bit stupid. I too went to see Chariots of the Gods and fell for badly construed theories about alien intervention in the construction processes of the human race. I fell for "ancient" cave drawings that supposedly proved such nonsense (no modern human being could have made those drawings). When I see my kids and how they react to these types of productions, I'm comforted when they ask me how I think it could have occurred. It makes me think that not all young humans are destined to make ignorant decisions about the world around them, even when they choose to believe that space men built the Empire State building and the Hoover dam.
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"New shit has come to light..."
Edited by GRTUD (07/03/02 05:42 PM)
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PhilosoPossum
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Re: fingerprints of the gods - lost civilisations? [Re: GRTUD]
#718624 - 07/02/02 06:11 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've read a bunch of Hancock's stuff. I've also personally visited many of the sites he describes/theorizes about (Egypt, Mexico, Peru, Bolivia). So in other words, I've done my homework on this topic.
It is true that Hancock really stretches things sometimes... kind of annoys me. However, much of what he says is very, very reasonable. The above mentioned show that supposedly "debunked" Hancock is *also* probably bullcrap. There are many Egyptologists who hate Hancock and are very closed-minded people. Egyptology is very much an "Establishment" where new ideas are not met with a warm reception. I've even met the curator of the Giza Plateau, Zawi Hawass. He's a nice guy... but not very open to "crazy ideas" that he deems threaten the official history of Egypt.
And as for the 12th planet theories... well.... no offense there Shroomism, but I sometimes feel that when people invoke wild theories of space races being responsible for the accomplishments of ancient Man... I consider it disrespectful of our human ancestors. Humans built the pyramids, people. Get over it.  In fact, Hancock also agrees on this point, and never uses the Alien Explanation. He'll use the Atlantian Explanation... but I find that more palettable, because at least we're still dealing with humans. I mean, I've BEEN to Manchu Picchu... and that must have taken engineering *genious* to construct. Possibly even utilizing some kind of "lost technology" of some kind... I don't know... but when someone suggests extra-solar beings did the deed, that is the equivalent of taking Occum's Razor and thrashing it on the concrete until it's dull as a board.
I don't mean to sound all pretentious by stressing that I've actually visited all these ancient sites, but it really made a difference for me in terms of my theories and what I was willing to believe. Sometimes people can cook up the wildest shit from their basement apartment... but there is no substitute for actually going there and realizing... "Hey... Manchu Picchu could have been built by normal men. It would have taken a long, long time, but it's fully possible." And when you witness the incredible constitution of your run-of-the-mill modern Peruvian villager, it made even more sense.
I guess my point is to be careful where you cast your belief. Part of the act of "learning from history" is to learn to appreciate the accomplishments of Humanity's (human) ancestors. Ancient peoples were not crazy morons. YES the Egyptians built the pyramids with very complex alignments to the stars. But NO they didn't need a spaceship to help build them. It seems to be a sin to consider that ancient humans were actually really smart people. Granted these ancient peoples probably operated a very different world paradigm than we moderners can suppose. (in addition to much less technology) But this doesn't invalidate the fact that these people were quite ingenious.
But by all means, read Hancock's books because they are *way* cool. At the very least, he makes some excellent points to suggest a much more interesting human past. He gives credible arguments to suggest that reasonably sophisticated culture emerged many thousands of years prior to the currently accepted date. He also reveals some very sophisticated religious practices related to archeooastronomy. Now this is actually one arguement to suggest an Alien Connection, given the astronomical alignments.... but's that's another issue that Shroomism would probably know more about than I.
ok, this message is way too long now. I blame the cannabis.
m.
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Traveller
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Re: fingerprints of the gods - lost civilisations? [Re: PhilosoPossum]
#719343 - 07/02/02 11:33 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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right on! what you're saying about having visited the sites yourself makes sense to me. in fact, one big point i find in favour of graham hancock is that he's got off his ass and actually gone to all these sites for himself. reading the newspaper articles in the japan times about the structures found underwater near the coast of taiwan i remember quotes from the guys who had actually been there saying "this is amazing! it really looks like a human construction with alleys, staircases, platforms..."etc, and then there would always be other quotes from such and such an expert talking from his little office in england or america saying "oh it can't possibly be a human construction, must be some kind of natural phenomenon, erosion...etc, humans back then simply weren't advanced enough to build structures like this". great stuff. use what you think you know to dismiss anything that threatens that "knowledge", preferably saving time, money and your own professional reputation by not actually investigating too closely.
so how big were the biggest stones at macchu picchu? in dimensions like 2x2x5m or whatever (rather than weight, i mean).
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Anonymous
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Re: fingerprints of the gods - lost civilisations? [Re: Traveller]
#719495 - 07/03/02 04:01 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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there would always be other quotes from such and such an expert talking from his little office in england or america saying "oh it can't possibly be a human construction, must be some kind of natural phenomenon, erosion...etc, humans back then simply weren't advanced enough to build structures like this"
Most such "experts" never actually built anything themselves or worked in the field with experienced construction trades people. I read a book quite a few years ago by someone who spent his life in the construction trades, I think it was called, "How To Build A Flying Saucer and Other Engineering Marvels." In the book he showed his techniques for accomplishing various things like setting up Stonehenge and Easter Island Statues. Very down to earth and practical stuff, it didn't require anti-gravity machines or alien technologies, and could have been performed by normal civilizations using standard human intelligence and relatively simple devices.
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Swami
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 Re: fingerprints of the gods - lost civilisations? [Re: ]
#720264 - 07/03/02 11:33 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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Why don't you just take the fun out of all of these "mysteries"?
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The proof is in the pudding.
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nugsarenice
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Re: fingerprints of the gods - lost civilisations? [Re: ]
#720266 - 07/03/02 11:34 AM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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so how did they build stonehedge then?
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Traveller
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Re: fingerprints of the gods - lost civilisations? [Re: Swami]
#721291 - 07/03/02 08:02 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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why do you say "mysteries" here swami? do you know who built teotihuacan? do you know who built the crazy figures on the nazca plains, and why? does anyone? who was quetzalcoatl?
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Swami
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Re: fingerprints of the gods - lost civilisations? [Re: Traveller]
#721544 - 07/03/02 09:45 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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There are unknowns surrounding every ancient civilization because the historical records are incomplete or non-existent. Because there are unknowns people like to invent fanciful stories. Who built these cities / structures? The men of their day.
Yes, there are mysteries, but not as to what species built these edifices.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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PhilosoPossum
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 Re: fingerprints of the gods - lost civilisations? [Re: Swami]
#723134 - 07/04/02 06:26 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've become more interested in imagining the *mind* of ancient people, rather than marveling simply at their supposed building techniques. I mean what kind of people would actually build such crazy cool structures, most of them laiden with sophisticated spiritual/religious symbolism. I don't just dismiss it as megalomania... for instance that the pyramids weren't just built to satisfy the ego of a King. These structures are always crafted with archaic meaning and intelligent purpose, and this is what makes them the most interesting to me.
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Amoeba665
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Re: fingerprints of the gods - lost civilisations? [Re: PhilosoPossum]
#723223 - 07/04/02 06:54 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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i figure that people were just as intelligent then as they are now, but with less technology and fewer distractions. they had more leisure time to philosophise (at least, the priviledged, educated classes did), and largely due to the lack of scientific advancement (not that we have any fundamental understandings now that they didn't have then, just more details) they placed a much higher emphasis on metaphoric and symbolic explanations of the cosmos than we do nowadays. religion was a higher priority for ancient civilizations, by emphasizing their religious beliefs in their buildings and cultures and art, the ruling classes had more control over the people. the architecture of a civilisation says a lot about the values of that civilisation. from stone structures corresponding to certain alignments of the stars, to jagged, ultra-efficient skyscrapers, its just an outward reflection of the thoughts and interests of the people. and it is fascinating.
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jonnyshaggs420
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Re: fingerprints of the gods - lost civilisations? [Re: nugsarenice]
#723512 - 07/04/02 08:16 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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With big rocks!
Couldn't resist. Modern theory suggests that the stones were cut from a more southern region of the island (as the type of rock is not found in the area), moved by ship north along the coast, then each stone was rolled on large logs and pulled by many people, possibly slaves of some sort. They were lifted up using a wedge type system. They would lift one side of the stone and stick a wedge or something under it, then do the same on the other side, and continue until it reached the proper heighth. This is all the modern theory of course. A few college students a decade or so ago tried lifting one of the fallen cap stones back up onto the "pillar" stones at the site using this technique, but they didn't have the determination to get it all the way to the top. I've seen it performed in the aforementioned method on a 1:~3 scale though.
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Vote Jonnyshaggs in the next election for GOD...Its the responsible choice
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Traveller
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Re: fingerprints of the gods - lost civilisations? [Re: PhilosoPossum]
#723776 - 07/04/02 09:32 PM (21 years, 2 months ago) |
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exactly!
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