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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,432
Loc: Under the C
Re: Taking the Hit as a Gift [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #7150921 - 07/09/07 11:55 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

and the U.S. has some nasty laws re: killing someone.




Unless they are innocent civilians in a foreign land and you can recategorize it as 'collateral damage' especially if they are first called 'gooks' or 'towel-heads', then it is OK and you won't go to hell or to prison.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Taking the Hit as a Gift [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #7151168 - 07/09/07 12:54 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

RoosterCogburn said:
Quote:

It involves using only the amount of requisite force necessary to guarantee your security, and refraining from intentionally causing your opponent permanent harm.




"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared."

I fight like Machiavelli... which is why I avoid fighting alltogether. A "fight" to me is a duel to the death, and the U.S. has some nasty laws re: killing someone. :shrug:




:thumbup: If you truly believe in violence as a last resort then killing someone would sometimes be necessary. Avoiding fighting is the best stradagy.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/13/04
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Re: Taking the Hit as a Gift [Re: Sinbad]
    #7151971 - 07/09/07 03:25 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

There was also not really enough physically active application for my exercise needs.




I don't need the exercise as I already run 5 miles a day and spend 30 minutes a day on a rowing machine. I am training myself to be nonviolent in word and action. I have decided violence is an inefficient way to proceed in life. The accompanying emotions are most wasteful of energy.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Taking the Hit as a Gift [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7152275 - 07/09/07 04:42 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The accompanying emotions are most wasteful of energy.


Here is where the problem lies IMO. Violence is a useful tool as is peacefulness. It takes a human who is in control of themselves to use it wisely. Rare.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleSinbad
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Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
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Re: Taking the Hit as a Gift [Re: Icelander]
    #7152303 - 07/09/07 04:47 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Hue said:
The accompanying emotions are most wasteful of energy.






Its not a waste of time if we recycle the emotional garbage and make it useful as good fertilizer for our spiritual practice.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Taking the Hit as a Gift [Re: Sinbad]
    #7152344 - 07/09/07 04:55 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

True. But you know how hard it is to get people to recycle.:lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
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Re: Taking the Hit as a Gift [Re: Sinbad]
    #7153447 - 07/09/07 08:40 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

How about just dropping the emotional garbage completely, and not wasting the time and energy on it?


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
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Re: Taking the Hit as a Gift [Re: Icelander]
    #7153490 - 07/09/07 08:50 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Violence is a useful tool as is peacefulness




I agree as long as it is the only course of action to ensure survival or freedom. I am realizing that it can nearly always be avoided.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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OfflineHeffy
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Registered: 08/30/04
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Re: Taking the Hit as a Gift [Re: Icelander]
    #7154272 - 07/09/07 11:15 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

"Unless they are innocent civilians in a foreign land and you can recategorize it as 'collateral damage' especially if they are first called 'gooks' or 'towel-heads', then it is OK and you won't go to hell or to prison."
That doesn't seem at all relevant to the topic.


I really like the concepts from Aikido. Although I do not completely agree with the philosophy. There are street situations where using only as much force as nessecary could easily require killing a person, or persons. Consider what lengths you would go to if they were required to protect a lover, or your parents or siblings? Could you leave a group of merciless thugs to kill someone you cared about because your training did not teach you to seriously harm their attackers? This is something to consider when practicing martial arts.

On the other hand I have found the principles of Aikido very useful in my training. In most of the fights or altercations I've been in, the person who is instigating the fight is somebody it would be very easy for me to hurt, and who would have very little chance of hurting me. This means (in my opinion) that it would be wrong for me to hurt them. In these situations the teachings of Aikido are very valuable. Many martial artists are not trained to neutralize an attacker without harming them, and can draw unwanted consequences from defending themselves from an assailant. When someone puches at you, and ends up face down on the pavement with your knee on their head and their arm bent upwards, they know who is in control, there is no need to harm them.

It's all a matter of different levels of threat in the different attacks. I know several moves that can be used to restrain a person, or to paralyze them, depending on the situation. If I have multiple armed people to fight, I might not want them getting up if I take them down. If you are capable of doing so, it is always best to avoid hurting people. So learning an art which focuses on this principle is a good thing to do, but it may not protect you if you are unable to injure someone dangerous (or more importantly a group of people) badly enough to keep them from attacking you further.


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I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund

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