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Invisiblepsiloglow
Stranger
Registered: 07/07/07
Posts: 115
Stalled jars? moisture in them as well.. NEED HELP!
    #7142419 - 07/07/07 02:32 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Guys/Gals....

I am using a large plastic tub with 2 smaller tubs submerged in 82-86 degree water. The smaller tubs contain the jars. The jars are half pint wide mouth. Four holes in a diamond pattern with foil layer over jar top and wrapped to rubbery underside if you get what im saying. so when i inoculate i just pierce the holes and re-cover with water proof tape. I leave lids loosened and jars in normal position. Most are colonizing , but certain areas will not cover with mycelia. Some areas are on side,some are on bottom. Litte patches to strips of vermiculite showing. Seems like halted or very slowed growth. Although It's been 3 weeks and i have cased 6 jars already and 8 more fully done and ready, still like 20 more slowly progressing with this prob. I suspect water may somehow be getting into jars. I can see beads in the jar when i do the flip and tap, upside down. Air exchange may also be an issue. Shoule holes be placed in large or small container or both? And what can I use under the bands that allows for better o2 exchange. I heard of something , some material. How do i use it. Thanks for the support guys/gals....

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Offlinedirtracer24
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Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 285
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Re: Stalled jars? moisture in them as well.. NEED HELP! [Re: psiloglow]
    #7142456 - 07/07/07 02:46 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

are these cakes and if so did you remember the all important layer of dry verm.if so take the top right off and let them babies colonize


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OfflineCaptainLinger
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Registered: 05/25/07
Posts: 1,756
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Re: Stalled jars? moisture in them as well.. NEED HELP! [Re: psiloglow]
    #7142524 - 07/07/07 03:05 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

What size are the holes in your jars? How large is the uncolonized area? Do the jars smell mushroomy?

FAE isn't particularly needed. I presume you're doing BRF/PF cakes.

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Invisiblesimplemachine
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Registered: 09/14/03
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Re: Stalled jars? moisture in them as well.. NEED HELP! [Re: dirtracer24]
    #7142592 - 07/07/07 03:27 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

A little condensation inside the jars is perfectly normal, but air temp for incubating jars shouldn't exceed 83 degrees. Lots of people lose their jars to bacteria which thrive in warm moist environments like incubators.

I would leave those jars with the bands loosened on a dark, dry shelf somewhere and see how they look in another week.

Also I wold reconsider the way you're doing the lids...I don't quite understand your description, but I take it you wrap foil around the entire lid so that it wraps under and covers the gasket part that contacts the glass? Forget that. Just use tape to cover the holes and leave the lids loose.

Here is advice straight from the pf tek....

INCUBATION OF INOCULATED JARS
After inoculation of the jars, tighten the lid bands and retape the needle holes. Place the jars in a safe place out of direct sunlight. Indirect light is all that is required. If the temperature is kept around 70 degrees, germination will begin within 3 to 5 days. Germinating spores appear as small white fuzzy spots, quickly growing and spreading with cottony white growth and strandy "rhizomorphs". Any room temperature is O.K. If it gets cold indoors, over head light shinning down on the tops of the jars is a perfect heating technique for this culturing stage. A clamping type light with a reflector works well for this. If this is done, keep the temperature around 70 degrees (don't overheat the jars - monitor the temperature with a thermometer). A warm overall house temperature is fine. But in the overall view, cool temperatures are never a problem. The rule is to not overheat.

THE CANNING JAR LID (loose or tight)
There are two choices with the lids during incubation - tight or loose. With a very high moisture content (good for fruiting), a tight lid can cause water to collect in the bottom of the jar. This is to be avoided. If it happens, the lid should be kept on loose during incubation. Tape the canning jar lid to the band to make the lid act as a one piece lid for raising and lowering. If the substrate is on the dry side, a tight lid will preserve the moisture content. It is all a matter of the balance between the water needs of the mycelium, the size of the jar, the available air space in the jar and the type of vermiculite used. Only by simple experimenting and comparison can the right balance be found for a given set of conditions. Take notes and go with what fruits the best.


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Invisiblepsiloglow
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Registered: 07/07/07
Posts: 115
Re: Stalled jars? moisture in them as well.. NEED HELP! [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7143105 - 07/07/07 06:27 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

You mean remove the lids entirely? or scrape off the dry verm layer? and recap? entire removal may allow contams in. ya think?

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Invisiblepsiloglow
Stranger
Registered: 07/07/07
Posts: 115
Re: Stalled jars? moisture in them as well.. NEED HELP! [Re: psiloglow]
    #7143127 - 07/07/07 06:33 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah capt, the foil covers the lid and wraps under to cover the gasket. Exactly. Trick I been doing since I started years ago. I think the whole incubator may need to be turned down to 80 or a little below, whaddya think? And yeah, these are half pint, wide mouth, 1/4 cup BRF, 1/2 Cup Verm, with the dry layer on top. PF style classic. everything is formulated individually and I'm meticulous about quantity, and cook time. 35 Min's at 15 psi always works. I don't think One jar out of 50 or so is contam. I did have one which showed almost no growth and was suspect after 10 days and got tossed, so I do good work. Take pride in it. I'll turn down temp a ways and leave some on dark shelf in dry env to see what happens. keep ya posted. L8r.

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Invisiblesimplemachine
Manfly
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Registered: 09/14/03
Posts: 1,981
Re: Stalled jars? moisture in them as well.. NEED HELP! [Re: psiloglow]
    #7143292 - 07/07/07 07:26 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

psiloglow said:
You mean remove the lids entirely? or scrape off the dry verm layer? and recap? entire removal may allow contams in. ya think?




Yeah, I think thats bad idea.


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Invisiblepsiloglow
Stranger
Registered: 07/07/07
Posts: 115
Re: Stalled jars? moisture in them as well.. NEED HELP! [Re: simplemachine]
    #7143448 - 07/07/07 08:05 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I'm gonna try a batch at room temperature. How long is the difference in colonization? I've never done it...can't be too bad... and moisture is easier to maintain...

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Registered: 03/26/03
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Re: Stalled jars? moisture in them as well.. NEED HELP! [Re: psiloglow]
    #7143788 - 07/07/07 09:35 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I haven't used an incubator in years. I allow all jars to colonize at room temperature. Pf jars are usually finished in ten days to two weeks. Allow gas exchange and make sure you don't make them too wet. Any temperature of the substrate over 83F will slow down colonization, and the substrate is always a few degrees warmer than the surrounding air.
RR


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