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Yoschie99
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Re: We need celebrities to speak out in favor of fairer drug laws. [Re: Leanin]
#7137465 - 07/06/07 01:31 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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[edit] i wasn't very clear
you don't think that the laws that govern them effect how the people living under the laws treat each other?
yos-
Edited by Yoschie99 (07/06/07 01:33 PM)
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StrandedVoyager
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Re: We need celebrities to speak out in favor of fairer drug laws. [Re: Yoschie99]
#7137467 - 07/06/07 01:31 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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I was talking about violent crimes in relationship to drug use or the drug market.
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OneMoreRobot3021
Registered: 06/06/03
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Re: We need celebrities to speak out in favor of fairer drug laws. [Re: StrandedVoyager]
#7137474 - 07/06/07 01:32 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
StrandedVoyager said: Do you have a break down of how many violent drug offensives are committed by race?
"It is estimated that approximately 13 percent of all users of illegal drugs in the U.S. are African American. However, 38 percent of people arrested for drug offenses are African American. 59 percent of those prosecuted for drug offenses are African American, and 75 percent of those actually incarcerated for drug offenses are African American."
This is largely a result of law enforcement focusing all their efforts on inner city areas predominantly populated by lower class blacks.
"While black and Hispanics represent approximately one fifth of marijuana users in the U.S., they comprise 58 percent of marijuana offenders sentenced under federal law."
"In New York State, black males are incarcerated for the commission of drug offenses at approximately 11 times the rate of white males."
-------------------- Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake. -Erik Davis
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Leanin
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Re: We need celebrities to speak out in favor of fairer drug laws. [Re: Yoschie99]
#7137484 - 07/06/07 01:33 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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there will be more whites committing crimes duh....what race is the clear majority? whites dude.
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StrandedVoyager
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Re: We need celebrities to speak out in favor of fairer drug laws. [Re: Leanin]
#7137511 - 07/06/07 01:38 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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Would you guys be open to hearing my opinion on this?
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OneMoreRobot3021
Registered: 06/06/03
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Re: We need celebrities to speak out in favor of fairer drug laws. [Re: StrandedVoyager]
#7137522 - 07/06/07 01:40 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm open to hearing anyone's opinion on anything as long as it's presented in a digestible, coherent manner.
-------------------- Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake. -Erik Davis
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Yoschie99
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Re: We need celebrities to speak out in favor of fairer drug laws. [Re: StrandedVoyager]
#7137528 - 07/06/07 01:41 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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sure.. but if it's totally baseless.. you're going to hear about it.
the question is, are you open to hearing criticism of your opinion?
yos-
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Yoschie99
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Re: We need celebrities to speak out in favor of fairer drug laws. [Re: Leanin]
#7137532 - 07/06/07 01:42 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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you're the first person i've even considered putting on ignore..
what are you even talking about??
yos-
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Leanin
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Re: We need celebrities to speak out in favor of fairer drug laws. [Re: StrandedVoyager]
#7137541 - 07/06/07 01:44 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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sure
i just dont understand what could be done to the laws. target more whites? or....
thats discrimination too.
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Leanin
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Re: We need celebrities to speak out in favor of fairer drug laws. [Re: Yoschie99]
#7137551 - 07/06/07 01:46 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yoschie99 said: you're the first person i've even considered putting on ignore..
what are you even talking about??
yos-
put me on ignore? im just wondering what you would suggest be done to make laws "fairer". if you have people enforcing the laws that are discriminating what does it matter?
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Flop Johnson
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Re: We need celebrities to speak out in favor of fairer drug laws. [Re: Yoschie99]
#7137577 - 07/06/07 01:52 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Yoschie99 said: your logic sucks.
you're basically saying it's ok for other people to be discriminated against for whatever reason.. as long as it's not you.
right?
yos-
Never did I say that it was okay or just, only the fact that it's always going to happen no matter what you do. Thinking otherwise just makes you an idealist.
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Leanin
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Re: We need celebrities to speak out in favor of fairer drug laws. [Re: Flop Johnson]
#7137586 - 07/06/07 01:55 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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me and moeron are saying the same thing.
its gonna be hard to change how people enforcing the laws think.
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Flop Johnson
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Re: We need celebrities to speak out in favor of fairer drug laws. [Re: Leanin]
#7137602 - 07/06/07 01:57 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Leanin said: its gonna be hard to change how people enforcing the laws think.
People enforcing the laws don't necessarily agree with them, as someone said earlier there is a multi-billion dollar industry protecting drug policy the way it is, and that is going to be the real factor in determining any kind of change.
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Apollyphelion
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Re: We need celebrities to speak out in favor of fairer drug laws. [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
#7137607 - 07/06/07 01:58 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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Why don't all the Pot Organisations get together to form one big one? Or is it that all of them have strictly different agendas?
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Yoschie99
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Re: We need celebrities to speak out in favor of fairer drug laws. [Re: Leanin]
#7137613 - 07/06/07 02:00 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'm trying to figure out how to explain the basis of discrimination to you..
it's glaringly obvious to me, so i'm struggling a little.
give me a little bit.
yos-
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Flop Johnson
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Re: We need celebrities to speak out in favor of fairer drug laws. [Re: Apollyphelion]
#7137629 - 07/06/07 02:03 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Apollyphelion said: Why don't all the Pot Organisations get together to form one big one? Or is it that all of them have strictly different agendas?
Well some are lobbying for legalization for everyone and others are for medical legalization only, or even solely decriminalization. So in short, yes thats why.
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Redstorm
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Re: We need celebrities to speak out in favor of fairer drug laws. [Re: Leanin]
#7137631 - 07/06/07 02:03 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Leanin said: its gonna be hard to change how people enforcing the laws think.
But if drugs are decriminalized or legalized at least that is one area of discrimination that will not exist. Isn't that worth the effort?
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Leanin
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Re: We need celebrities to speak out in favor of fairer drug laws. [Re: Redstorm]
#7137660 - 07/06/07 02:11 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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ya it would prolly keep me out of trouble too lol.
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StrandedVoyager
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Re: We need celebrities to speak out in favor of fairer drug laws. [Re: Yoschie99]
#7137684 - 07/06/07 02:16 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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Okay cool, I welcome your opinions or criticism of my views as I like the exchange of information and I try not to have an ego.
My views on where this thread as gone is this. I've always believed that class is the only real divider in any society. I've had the strange and rare privilege/curse of seeing just about every group of people and class that this country has to offer. I've attended parties thrown by Bill Gates as a guest and I've also been in some of the lowest drug houses in my area. In each of these segments I've seen race isn't so much a issue as class is. However in my drug career I've been a party to countless drug transactions (I've never attained currency for drugs before in my life because I feel it's wrong but I've organized deals, provided muscle for deals, and ridden along) and for the most part in the organized networks I've been a party too, blacks have been almost entirely segregated out of them and there is a real vibe of prejudice within these economic circles. The feeling is amongst the local businessmen is that dealing to the black community is simply too risky because of the experience of violence and getting fucked around with. I've seen guns pulled four times in my life and twice they were pointed at me and all four times there was a black kid on the other end of the gun. There a real fear and consciousness of the black drug market and community within my world here.
I'm not trying to stereotype. The drug markets from which my experience stems from or at least the levels of which I was accepted within at high levels were predominately in suburban and country areas. I've noticed that in cities it seems that the black drug community is a less violent and more trustworthy in their business practices. However, it seems no matter where I've been there is a very clear segregation between the black community and the rest of the community. I think this is intentional because in the circles I've run with have been populated by a decent mix of irish, mexicans, native americans, gypsies, asians, jews, east indians, and italians but there's rarely a trusted black person within these circles. In my home family there is an incredibly diverse mix of race. However, there seems to be an extremely strong vibe of racism in all of these circles that has been built more on experience than on stereotyping.
I'm just talking about one community or circle of life here. In my experience people are just people and I've loved and hated just as many black people as any other kind of people in personal one on one relationships. Some of the most solid people I've known have been black. It seems however in the drug community black people are known to be more violent and shady, at least from my experience. I know that's a really shitty thing to say but I'm just being real. Also, I'm not trying to make some blanket statement about the world, I'm just saying in my limited area of the world this is what I see and believe. Not to say that there isn't shitty white, hispanic, asian people in the drug communities I've been a party too but for the most part there's a very real racist and segregated vibe out here.
I've thought about this a lot and why it is the way it is. Why is it that it seems that the black youth culture seems to always be so at odds with my culture and why are they so hunted down by the police and the law. The best answer I can come up with is that it seems that their culture dictates that they should make it by any means necessary and that violent drug dealing is completely acceptable and even cool. It seems that trying to better themselves and trying to educate themselves and trying to raise their community is looked down upon and that the success of self is more important that the success of community. I mean when I think of black celebrities I think of people like DMX, Jay Z, Ice T, Snoop Dogg... people who are constantly on our TV because whoever is in control thinks these people represent black people and can exact dollars from that community. However, what does this do to a young kid to watch people who look like him uphold a way of life that emphasizes criminal and violent acts for the advancement of the individual? I mean people are people and that's it nothing more and nothing less, however the American Black community is the only one I can think of where ignorance is encouraged. And I'm not convinced that's the black community's decision but rather a marketing scheme and perhaps society control tool in order to keep their people down. However, it's the chicken and the egg in terms of what came first and who's leading who. I really think the black community needs to take a look at themselves and educate themselves and rise above this stigma. But like I said I honestly believe people are just people and that class is the only true division amongst people.
By the way I apologize for saying "black" instead of "african-american", I don't mean that in a slanderous or mean way which somehow in society it's becoming. I say black because I think the term african-american is stupid. To quote George Carlin
Quote:
So, let me tell you how I handle some of these speech issues. First of all, I say "black." I say "black" because most black people prefer "black." I don't say "people of color." People of color sounds like something you see when you're on mushrooms. Besides, the use of people of color is dishonest. It means precisely the same as colored people. If you're not willing to say "colored people," you shouldn't be saying "people of color." Besides, the whole idea of color is bullshit anyway. What should we call white people? "People of no color?" Isn't pink a color? In fact, white people are not really white at all, they're different shades of pink, olive, and beige. In other words, they're colored. And black people are rarely black. I see mostly different shades of brown and tan. In fact, some light-skinned black people are lighter than the darkest white people. Look how dark the people in India are. They're dark brown, but they're considered white people. What's going on here? May I see the color chart? "People of color" is an awkward, bullshit, liberal-guilt phrase that obscures meaning rather than enhancing it. Shall we call fat people, "people of size?" By the way, I think the whole reason we're encouraged in this country to think of ourselves as "black and white" (instead of "pink and brown," which is what we are) is that black and white are complete opposites that cannot be reconciled. Black and white can never come together. Pink and brown, on the other hand, might just stand a chance of being blended, might just come together. Can't have that! Doesn't fit the plan. I also don't say "African-American." I find it completely illogical, and furthermore it's confusing. Which part of Africa are we talking about? What about Egypt? Egypt is in Africa. Egyptians aren't black. They're like the people in India, they're dark brown white people. But they're Africans. So why wouldn't an Egyptian who becomes a U.S. citizen be an African-American? The same thing goes for the Republic of South Africa. Suppose a white racist from South Africa becomes an American citizen? Well, first of all he'd find plenty of company, but couldn't he also be called an African-American? It seems to me that a racist white South-African guy could come here and call himself African-American just to piss off black people. And, by the way, what about a black person born in South Africa who moves here and becomes a citizen? What is he? An African-South-African-American? Or a South-African-African-American? Alright, back to this hemisphere. How about a black woman who is a citizen of Jamaica? According to P.C. doctrine, she's an African-Jamaican, right? But if she becomes a U.S. citizen, she's a Jamaican-American. And yet if one of these language crusaders saw her on the street, he'd think she was an African-American. Unless he knew her personally in which case he would have to decide between African-Jamaican-American and Jamaican-African-American. Ya know? It's just so much liberal bullshit. Labels divide people. We need fewer labels, not more.
Anyway... I'm expecting to be burned at the stake now... so have at it. And thanks for reading this.
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StrandedVoyager
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Re: We need celebrities to speak out in favor of fairer drug laws. [Re: StrandedVoyager]
#7137722 - 07/06/07 02:28 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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I need to run and do some errands but I shall return in a hour or two and I look forward to any thoughts or responses anyone has. I know I've dropped a lot of controversial thoughts here and I certainly do not wish to shy away from any backlash or response I may get because of that.
-------------------- Hi My god... it's full of stars...
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