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InvisibleDiploidM
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Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops
    #7134638 - 07/05/07 08:37 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

After all that commotion, full page ads in newspapers, lots of promises, the machine is a flop.

I hate to say I told you so... no I don't:

TOLD YOU SO! :tongue:

--

In August 2006, a small Irish tech company called Steorn took out an ad in The Economist claiming to have invented a technology that produces an infinite supply of free energy. "Imagine never having to recharge your phone," the ad said. Or "never having to refuel your car." Given the monumentality of the claim -- the company was, after all, suggesting it had found a way to violate the first law of thermodynamics, which states that energy can be neither created nor destroyed -- many observers dismissed it.

So Steorn set out to prove everyone wrong. Wednesday was to be the big day; at the Kinetica Museum in London, the firm would open the first of a 10-day public demonstration of its perpetual motion tech, which it calls Orbo. The demo was to be streamed live on the Web, too.

But it didn't take. On its Web site, Steorn explains the problem -- they can't cool down the demo room:

We are experiencing some technical difficulties with the demo unit in London. Our initial assessment indicates that this is probably due to the intense heat from the camera lighting. We have commenced a technical assessment and will provide an update later today. As a consequence, Kinetica will not be open to the public today (5th July). We apologise for this delay and appreciate your patience.

If you look at the Steorn video stream now (it seems to work only in Internet Explorer), you see a nearly vacant museum-white room with eight pedestals placed in circle, an arrangement that smacks of Stonehenge. A few of the pedestals are topped with iMacs, and in the center of the circle sits a strange lit-up orb in a glass cube. This orb, presumably, is Orbo. It's the machine that could alter the course of the world -- if only the geniuses who cooked it up could learn how to turn on an air conditioner. (Hey, here's a crazy thought -- why not use the Orbo to power the museum's A.C.?)

machinist.salon.com


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7134761 - 07/05/07 09:08 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: trendal]
    #7135104 - 07/05/07 10:24 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

After all that commotion, full page ads in newspapers, lots of promises,


I didnt hear shit.:tongue:  Well maybe I tuned it out...

Y'know I haven't seen one of those "I invented perpetual motion while tripping" threads in a while.  I bet we are due.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: DieCommie]
    #7135183 - 07/05/07 10:38 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleDieCommie


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Posts: 29,258
Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7135283 - 07/05/07 10:58 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
We just had one a couple months ago: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6864511#Post6864511


Ahh yes I remember that one. Its fun to read, sometimes it just gets sad.

Threads like these are a staple of any science forum (along with teh .999...=1? threads)

I just got done reading a mediocre book by Asimov. In it nearly free energy was gotten by exchanging atoms with a parallel universe whos nuclear force was stronger. In the parallel universe Plutonium-186 was a stable isotope, but in our universe it is not. So the aliens sent us Pu-186 which then emitted energy as its not stable. And we sent them Tungsten which was emitted energy in their universe. The net effect is the transfer of electrons from our universe to theirs. Of course there was a caveat.. the exchange of atoms caused a change in the local strength of the nuclear force pushing the sun toward exploding.

Anyway, kind of a digress... but I guess perpetual energy/motion doesn't even work in the fiction books.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: DieCommie]
    #7135305 - 07/05/07 11:02 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

along with teh .999...=1? threads :rofl2:

We're overdue for one of those, eh?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7136023 - 07/06/07 04:31 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I hate to say I told you so... no I don't:

TOLD YOU SO!




You are a big old meany.  Just think, if it had worked, then alllll the worlds problems would be solved.  Just wait until he gets that room cooled down... then we will see what is what!  So there!  :wink:


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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InvisibleOJK
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7136059 - 07/06/07 05:31 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

The weirdest thing about this company was the way they promoted their "discovery"

They said that the single most exciting thing about their technology was the "convenience", of "never having to recharge anything".

Yeah... you claim to have disproven a fundemental physical law and invented a device that can give clean, free energy to the whole world for the rest of time, and you think the most important consequence is not having to recharge your damn cell phone?

:bored:

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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7136840 - 07/06/07 10:55 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Update:
Quote:

Further to Steorn’s announcement yesterday (5th July) regarding the technical difficulties experienced during the installation of its “Orbo” technology at the Kinentica Museum in London, Steorn has decided to postpone the demonstration until further notice.

Sean McCarthy CEO stated that “technical problems arose during the installation of the demonstration unit in the display case on Wednesday evening. These problems were primarily due to excessive heat from the lighting in the main display area. Attempts to replace those parts affected by the heat led to further failures and as a result we have to postpone the public demonstration until a future date.”

He continued that “we apologise for the inconvenience caused to all the people who had made arrangements to visit the demonstration or were planning on viewing the demonstration online.”

Over the next few weeks the company will explore alternative dates for the public demonstration.



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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7142652 - 07/07/07 03:42 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Video Q&A with CEO of Steorn about the debacle. Sound gets better about a minute in and apparently they aren't blaming the lighting anymore, but I haven't finished watching it yet.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-410336726209552529&hl=en-GB


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #7147041 - 07/08/07 03:47 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I'll state it again as I have on all of these post's. Understand the casmir effect and you will realize that this type of technology is completely plausible.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7148061 - 07/08/07 08:09 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Understand the casmir effect and you will realize that this type of technology is completely plausible.

You keep assuming that people are not familiar with the Casimir effect.

But since it seems like you know more about it than I do, educate me. How does one get free energy form the Casimir effect?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleOJK
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7150011 - 07/09/07 05:50 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

You just reverse the polarity of the flux capacitor!

Geez, what kind of a scientist are you? :smirk:

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: OJK]
    #7150374 - 07/09/07 08:46 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

> You just reverse the polarity of the flux capacitor!

Sttawagig 12.1? What the hell is a Sttawagig?


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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InvisibleLe_Canard
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7150828 - 07/09/07 11:24 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

It amazes me that quacks are still trying to make perpetual motion machines.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Le_Canard]
    #7150850 - 07/09/07 11:32 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

> It amazes me that quacks are still trying to make perpetual motion machines.

Give a duck a magnet and sit back...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Seuss]
    #7151723 - 07/09/07 02:36 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

These link's are the definitive website's on Zero-Point Energy most notably zpower.com.

http://www.zpower.com/en/technology_energypapers.htm#ZeroPointEnergyArticles

http://www.zpenergy.com/

http://zpenergy.com/downloads/Iannuzzi.pdf

This is the book that I learned all of my info on this subject from. This is also on zpower.com's site but I posted a direct link below incase you don't want to look through it.

http://www.mediafire.com/?c3dn3vdxjie


If you all really want to understand the science behind the talk than you need to look through everything this book & website has to offer. There are links on there to downloadable book's that fully explain how the casimir effect influence's this type of technology. If that isn't enough info for you then you probably need to go back to high-school and take some more science class's. And I would explain it in my own word's but I'm def no professor and this book has far more info then I could reiterate.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (07/09/07 02:57 PM)

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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7152069 - 07/09/07 03:52 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

All things tend to reach a state of energetic equilibrium. Meaning if you were to place magnets in a certain pattern, no matter what ingenious pattern it was, they would eventually configure themselves into a non-moving state.

As far as using Casimir effect to generating electricity... you're better off collecting the heat/kinetic energy from a pile of ants. The energy harness from the Casimir effect is so small that it is insignificant to our energy concerns.

The most practical approach to our energy concerns is using a slow-burning fuel source in an efficient process... ie. H-3 Fusion. Maybe that and a combination of highly efficient solar panels (which have a max. energy efficiency of 30% of sunlight per square inch or something like that -- or I'm completely off).


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.


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InvisibleOJK
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7152365 - 07/09/07 04:59 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

buddhahoodlum said:
If you all really want to understand the science behind the talk than you need to look through everything this book & website has to offer.




I imagine that if you "really want to understand the science behind the talk" you need to study it at a reputable higher learning institution, or read about it in a peer-reviewed scientific journal.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7152510 - 07/09/07 05:27 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

If you all really want to understand the science behind the talk

Yeah, I learn all my science from nutjob websites instead of peer reviewed science journals. And I get my medical advice from the short order cook at the local Denny's.

If you want anyone to take you seriously, link up a real science journal. You won't because none of them bother with crap pseudoscience any more than with alien abductions and anal probes. :rolleyes:

Extracting energy from the vacuum soup of virtual particles is not possible because in order to do that, the system from which you extract the energy would fall below the zero-point. This is like removing 10 apples from a bag that contains only 5.

Energy is ALWAYS conserved and there has never been the slightest, tiniest hint that this may not be true.

That people with no science education insist this can be done even though they don't understand the basic science they're trying to use is very amusing and not unlike how people misconstrue entanglement as a method for communicating faster than light. :yesnod:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleOJK
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7153279 - 07/09/07 08:07 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

:einstein:

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: OJK]
    #7154852 - 07/10/07 01:46 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

That's just it the law's of physic's as they stand are not correct. Look up the unparticle universe on physorg.com Oh and diploid you should look on there aswell they just devised a way to create a teleportation system dealing with entanglement fascinating stuff. I also think Helium-3 will be a great energy source which we will have within 20 years max. But right now we have Mpi and Steorn's technology at are disposal so I suggest you look into the casimir effect just a little more on that site. It's not just a nutjob site it's coming from reputable scientific study's and mention's nothing but pure science conducted by real scientist's. In particular the book I have is extremely informative on the subject just look at it with a open mind Diploid what do you got to lose?


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (07/10/07 01:57 AM)

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OfflineSymmetryGroup8
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7157257 - 07/10/07 05:25 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I dunno man. You talking about the quantum dot thing? That's still quantum teleportation right. You still have to send classical information...

Sorry for any ignorance on my part, I'm not a physist (actually pretty ignorant about physics).


--------------------
Be like water my friend!

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Invisibleadrug

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7158162 - 07/10/07 09:04 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

buddhahoodlum said:
That's just it the law's of physic's as they stand are not correct. Look up the unparticle universe on physorg.com Oh and diploid you should look on there aswell they just devised a way to create a teleportation system dealing with entanglement fascinating stuff. I also think Helium-3 will be a great energy source which we will have within 20 years max. But right now we have Mpi and Steorn's technology at are disposal so I suggest you look into the casimir effect just a little more on that site. It's not just a nutjob site it's coming from reputable scientific study's and mention's nothing but pure science conducted by real scientist's. In particular the book I have is extremely informative on the subject just look at it with a open mind Diploid what do you got to lose?




First of all, learn how to use punctuation correctly. "Law's of Physic's"?

Secondly, we do NOT have Steorn's technology at our disposal, in fact, they can't even demonstrate it for anyone yet. Due to "heat" or some other ridiculous excuse. You just keep digging yourself deeper and deeper here...

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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7159125 - 07/11/07 01:29 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

http://www.lepp.cornell.edu/spr/1999-02/msg0014964.html

Take a look at this, and the responses to it.

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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Seuss]
    #7159688 - 07/11/07 07:51 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

You sir called it correctly. This is very close to the Minato motor. Or at least the general idea.

http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2007/07/first_glimpse_of_an_orbo.html


Amidst all the talk about Steorn's spectacularly failed demonstration, it's easy to overlook the most interesting new bit of information that did come out of all this -- Steorn finally revealed what a working Orbo looks like. It appears that their press package for what they seem to have anticipated would be a successful media event included photos of Sean holding an Orbo device, and the central "rotor" disc does look to be spinning. The photo showed up in several articles during the past week, including coverage by the BBC, here. Below is a closeup of the Orbo:

Whether the Orbo is capable of working as claimed is as yet unknown, but that hasn't stopped people from analyzing how it's put together and how it would work if it could. Steorn forum member Axle posted several images showing an exploded view of the Orbo based on the published photos:



The "stator" is shown in green and blue, and contains a circular arrangement of eight magnets fitted into slots around the periphery of a central cavity. In that cavity spins the "rotor", with four magnets around its circumference. The stator and rotor are connected by two bearings, seen in orange -- the weak links that, according to Sean, put an end to the demo.

Some of this detail is conjecture, given the quality of the photos that the design is drawn from. The design resembles a variation of a classic magnet motor, a recurring motif among attempts to create perpetual motion machines. A magnet motor cannot generate more energy than is put into it because, due to the way magnetic fields work, there will either be a stable state where the rotor is being pushed in one direction just as strongly as it is being pushed in the other direction, or else the operation of the motor will progressively weaken the magnets themselves until the spinning stops. If Orbo does work, then it's doing something very unusual with the configuration of magnets, perhaps (according to Sean) somehow taking advantage of the time variance involved in the effect of magnetic viscosity. (Some members of the Overunity forum are trying to figure out how this might work).

Until (and unless) Steorn reveals just how their Orbo is put together, all we can do is make speculations based on what little we have seen. But if Sean is holding a spinning Orbo device in these published photos, I think we can narrow down the possibilities of what it actually is to these four:

1) A fake -- hidden in there somewhere is a battery, strong enough to keep the device running for a few days (or maybe, as it turned out, just a few hours).

2) A type of "magnet motor" that will spin for a while, during which time the magnets themselves are weakened, eventually stopping the motion. This is in direct contradiction with Steorn's statement that tests showed no weakening of the magnets... but we've seen that Steorn's engineers (like any, to be fair) are not infallible.

3) A very low friction magnet motor that will keep spinning if held and jostled a bit, but that without this small input of energy will eventually slow to a halt. It's possible that such a device could have fooled Steorn into believing they had a perpetual motion machine. This is difficult to reconcile with Sean's claim that a test Orbo has been run continuously for several weeks, however -- unless it was being carefully cradled by a hopeful and deluded energy source for part of that time.

4) It just might, of course, be the real thing.


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #7160930 - 07/11/07 01:43 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Seriously read the book I posted it explain's all of your question's in detail.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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Invisiblesupercollider
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7161364 - 07/11/07 02:46 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quit telling us to read books, when it's obvious you've never read one yourself. If you had, you would know when it is and is not appropriate to use an apostrophe.


--------------------
Supercollider? I just met her!

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: supercollider]
    #7161549 - 07/11/07 03:22 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Actually I did read it but it is to long to reiterate that much info as I've already said. And stop talking about my grammar I really don't care it's a freaken forum.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7161669 - 07/11/07 03:46 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

If any of the reading material you've offered up was anything more than fantasy, we would already have a perpetual motion machine.

That people have been WRITING about this for hundreds of years, but no one has ever actually BUILT such a machine should tell you something. This is no different than people who TALK about their paranormal abilities but never actually DEMONSTRATE them.

Talk is cheap.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7162360 - 07/11/07 06:19 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

buddhahoodlum said:
Seriously read the book I posted it explain's all of your question's in detail.




What questions? I haven't asked anything, I simply relayed information concerning Steorn's Orbo.


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7162996 - 07/11/07 08:39 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

buddhahoodlum said:
Seriously read the book I posted it explain's all of your question's in detail.


Books generally arnt the best place for new scientific research. Anybody can write a book on anything. There is no independent third party peer review on books. There is no verification at all, save that of the publisher (and the publisher only wants to sell books, not publish factual books).

Even wikipedia has more peer review than books.

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: DieCommie]
    #7164111 - 07/11/07 11:52 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

LOL by all mean's take it with a grain of salt but if you understand science and thermodynamics well enough you'll come to the same conclusion as I did. This technology is real and they have created a way to extrapolate energy from the zero point energy field. Also known as the casimir force.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (07/11/07 11:56 PM)

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7164455 - 07/12/07 01:16 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

buddhahoodlum said:
LOL by all mean's take it with a grain of salt but if you understand science and thermodynamics well enough you'll come to the same conclusion as I did.


But you dont believe in the laws of thermodynamics right? Because thermodynamics says that what you are saying is B.S. If you could get free energy from the casimir effect, then you could build fantastic heat engines which violate thermodynamic principles. For example, you could use the work from the casimir effect do drive an isolated heat engine who's sole result is the transfer of heat from a colder to hotter body. Or, likewise you could completely transform heat into work. These would obviously be in conflict with the 'accepted' laws of thermodynamics wouldn't they?

So you must agree then, that if what you are saying is true, then the current laws of thermo. are not complete. You cannot argue that thermo. backs up your claim can you?

(Bear in mind how resilient the laws of thermo have been since there inception... They are the only branch of physics (that I know of) that survived both relativity and the quantum revolution completely unscathed. )

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7164785 - 07/12/07 03:18 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

buddhahoodlum said:
LOL by all mean's take it with a grain of salt but if you understand science and thermodynamics well enough you'll come to the same conclusion as I did. This technology is real and they have created a way to extrapolate energy from the zero point energy field. Also known as the casimir force.




For people with such a solid ability to extract this energy, they sure as hell aren't very good at proving it.

People with successful inventions can show them to others. It's not just bad science to have absolute faith in someone who hasn't provided an ounce of proof, it's outright dumb. If they're onto something so damned solidly feasible, then they'll show it working. Until then, they have nothing but an army of people who follow them because they want to believe and will latch onto any pathetic excuse to give themselves hope.

It's not hard to find a following of people who can be misled into thinking you have somehow risen above the laws of science which have been proven by people with more education and brainpower than 5 people such as yourself... the problem is attempting to prove your bluffs to people who aren't devoid of basic skepticism. Steorn managed the mediocre feat of the former, but the latter has proven unsuccessful... because to achieve the latter you actually have to have done some REAL inventing, rather than touting some snake oil to people who believe you because they don't understand what you're saying... people who believe you just because you have the ability to sound smart.

Hell, even if the damned thing is "working" on some visually appreciable level, what kind of reliable energy source is so fickle that a few hot light bulbs can reduce it to complete inoperability?

Think with your mind, not with your dreams.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Konnrade]
    #7164939 - 07/12/07 06:21 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

> people who believe you just because you have the ability to sound smart

There has to be more to it than that. I'm taking the thread for a bit of a ride here... but, why do people that are uneducated in the fields of science/engineering latch onto these scams with such passion? Since the dawn of science it has been proven, given what we know, that perpetual motion does not (and cannot) exist... and since the dawn of science, thousands upon thousands of people have failed trying to show science wrong... and yet, after all this time, people with no scientific background keep trying and people with no scientific background keep believing. I would honestly be more surprised to find somebody created an over unity device than I would be to see the sun rise in the west and set in the east.


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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Seuss]
    #7165720 - 07/12/07 11:35 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Obviously the skeptic's out there including some scientist's who still only believe in the standard model need to get a clue and realize that 95% percent of are universe is missing. This is called the unparticle universe and it is theoretical physic's right now. That is why it hasn't been proven yet it's all just theoretical but that doesn't mean it can't be tested. Also that orbo is nothing more than a plastic disc that is designed to show the zero point energy field at work. This isn't just some stupid magnetic motor either they are using a high tech receiver operating at the ZPE field frequency to gather this energy and make it usable. Also you seem to quickly forget the video steorn put out explaining the reason why it failed he said it was the bearing's on the Orbo it had nothing to do with the actual machine. Continue to be disbeliever's it really doesn't matter to me but what do's matter is that this science is made more readily available to the public. When was the last time you guy's were educated extensively on the casimir effect in school?

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (07/12/07 11:59 AM)

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7165765 - 07/12/07 11:45 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I love these perpetual motion machine threads.

:popcorn:


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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7165778 - 07/12/07 11:48 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

buddhahoodlum said:
When was the last time you guy's were educated extensively on the casimir effect in school?




When is the last time you were?


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: trendal]
    #7165796 - 07/12/07 11:50 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Never now your getting it lol. Except for a brief overview in physic's when I was a senior hardly worth mentioning. If the science isn't even tought in school of course your gonna deam it unreal it's beyond your standard model so to speak. Also I would like you all to answer one question for me where doe's the energy in the casimir force come from?


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (07/12/07 12:01 PM)

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7165849 - 07/12/07 12:02 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Are you aware that no one at Steorn has either?

Oh, they claim they have eight PhD physicists on staff who reject the first law of thermodynamics, but they CONVEEEENIIENTLY refuse to name them citing confidentiality agreements.

WTF?

You have to be big time gullible to believe this shit.

where doe's the energy in the casimir force come from?

The Casimir force is a force. It's not energy. :dumblol:

And no one is denying that that zero-point energy exists. What we're denying is that it can be harnessed. What Steorn is proposing is about the same as having a ship sailing the oceans with no fuel and getting its energy by sucking up ocean water, removing the heat for its own use, then dumping ice cubes overboard.

If you think this is possible, then I have some swampland you might want to buy.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7165906 - 07/12/07 12:14 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Also I would like you all to answer one question for me where doe's the energy in the casimir force come from?

The effect is only actually observed with conducting plates, and comes from the fact that two parallel conducting plates only have a certain subset of electromagnetic waves in between them. In the area outside the plates, there are virtually infinite number of EM waves that can exist. This creates a tiny energy imbalance, observed as a tiny force drawing the two plates together.

I emphasize "tiny" because the observed effect is so small.

The "zero point field" is incredibly weak...so weak in fact that it is the weakest possible energy state. Let that sink in for a second...

OK, so if it's the lowest of all possible energy states...why do you think that you can extract energy from it?

Much more plausible, but also much harder, would be to find a way to have energy flow into the ZPF...and to use that energy flow to get energy out in the process (kind of like a water wheel...you can extract some of the energy from the falling water).


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7165911 - 07/12/07 12:15 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Dude if you think force's aren't energy then you just ended your agruement with me right there. Oh the casimir effect is weak is it maybe to the observer but inside the ZPE it has the energy density of a atomic nucleus. Im not saying there going to extract the casimir effect. Im saying the casimir effect show's that there is energy appearing out of nowhere and this is the where ZPE will be extracted from the very wheel-work of nature as the great genius Nikola Tesla pointed out to the world 100 year's ago yet no one listened then either. Kinda sad how everyone spend's their time trying to disprove thing's that might actually be be the most important discovery of our age.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (07/12/07 12:23 PM)

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7165932 - 07/12/07 12:19 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Force is not energy. :rolleyes:

How much energy is given off by a book applying a force to a desk by sitting there?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7165942 - 07/12/07 12:21 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

No offense, but if you think forces are energy...maybe you should take a few more classes on physics at your local high school... :smirk:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7165977 - 07/12/07 12:31 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Force is not energy. :rolleyes:

How much energy is given off by a book applying a force to a desk by sitting there?





That's not what you were debating but what you did say is that a force has no energy so how do assume that force was created to begin with?


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7165995 - 07/12/07 12:38 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I don't even know where to begin. Clearly, your misunderstanding of basic high school physics precludes even discussing this with you in any meaningful way.

Force is not energy no matter how many times you say it is and until you understand this basic foundation, I might as well be discussing physics with a chicken. :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7165999 - 07/12/07 12:39 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

No again force in itself is not energy but it's created with energy that's what I already said quit misinterpreting me you are uncanny at it.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (07/12/07 12:43 PM)

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7166073 - 07/12/07 01:01 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

buddhahoodlum said:
Dude if you think force's aren't energy then you just ended your agruement with me right there.




Quote:

buddhahoodlum said:
No again force in itself is not energy but it's created with energy that's what I already said quit misinterpreting me you are uncanny at it.




So which is it?


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7166130 - 07/12/07 01:16 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

> force in itself is not energy but it's created with energy

Force = newtons = kg.m/s^2
Energy = joules = kg.m^2/s^2
Power = watts = kg.m^2/s^3


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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7166199 - 07/12/07 01:33 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

OK Buddha, I'm amazed you're still going on about this and I realize now that nobody here is going to change your mind.

That means it's the perfect time to make a bet! I propose a very real cash bet, any amount you're comfortable with. My money says Steorn will never successfully demonstrate this or any other free energy device. Do you accept?


--------------------
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: trendal]
    #7166251 - 07/12/07 01:46 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Let's get some frame of reference built up here. The casimir force is a weak force, this is accepted as a fact.

To help others (and me, honestly) understand this... how does the casimir force compare to another weak force... such as gravity?


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Konnrade]
    #7166325 - 07/12/07 02:03 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Well to be exact, the Casimir effect is not a force...but rather a reaction to a set of forces, such as gravity. It isn't usually worked out for a field like gravity, because due to gravity's astounding weakness the effect would be equally as small.

The EM force is the only one of consequence to the Casimir effect, and even that produces a very weak effect.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7166370 - 07/12/07 02:12 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Some business student made this shit up with the intent to scam the general uneducated public after having read some cool physics stuff.

Its pretty elaborate, probably had atleast 10 people working full time on it for months. Props to him.


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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: trendal]
    #7166374 - 07/12/07 02:12 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Ack, that zoomed right over my head... this is why I wasn't terribly fond of phsyics, so many questions have answers with a very intimidating syntax.


--------------------

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: trendal]
    #7167011 - 07/12/07 04:53 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

So would I be correct to assume that the Casimir effect would not work inside of a Faraday cage?

In case it isn't clear, this is just something I thought about when reading your post and should in no way identify me as being in agreement with buddhahoodlum. In fact it's quite the contrary.


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #7167075 - 07/12/07 05:10 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

The Casimir effect is an all-pervasive property of space, like gravity and the electromagnetic field. A Faraday cage can't change that.

What a Faraday cage does is attenuate the propagation of disturbances in the electromagnetic field. This is why they're used in the testing and calibration of radios during manufacturing, for example.

Way back when I used to work, I spent many hours refining radio designs in Faraday cages at Motorola's facility in Boynton Beach, Florida. My cell phone never worked in there for some strange reason. :wink:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7167113 - 07/12/07 05:22 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Ah. I had believed that a Faraday cage blocked all electromagnetic waves


--------------------
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #7167168 - 07/12/07 05:35 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

It mostly blocks them, yes, that's why they're used to design and calibrate radios. Almost no EM waves from outside can get in because the cage is connected to a grounding system which shunts (essentially) all EM waves to ground.

But the Casimir effect is given rise by virtual particles which are unrelated to electromagnetism.

The theories that characterize virtual particles make some very weird predictions. For example, the Feynman diagrams used to study them show them oscillating back and forth through time at picosecond scales. But weird though that may be, they can't be exploited for a free lunch (energy).


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7167513 - 07/12/07 07:02 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

You'll see steorn will prove the skeptic's wrong.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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OfflineFocusHawaii
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7167580 - 07/12/07 07:16 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_thermodynamics

Thermodynamics explains the nature of energy in systems and why energy cannot be "re-used". Even if energy is derived from some force, it doesn't change the nature of energy. Entropy always trends down.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7167584 - 07/12/07 07:16 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, and Jesus is coming back any day now. You'll see.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7168075 - 07/12/07 08:37 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

The one idea I see present in every post is the idea that the Casimir Effect has to do with zero-point energy. The fact is that no experimental evidence exists for zero-point energies of quantum fields.
Casimir originally calculated the force without invoking this, and a bit later formulated the force using it to make the calculation easier and more intuitive. However, it can be calculated purely from S-matrix elements, in terms of Feynman diagrams with external lines without any reference to the vacuum. All that this means is that the Feynman graphs that define the zero-point energy do not contribute to the calculation of the force and so only the graphs with external lines do.
Also energy and force are related, just look up the relationship between potential energy and Force, but of course they are not the same thing.

Theres a good MIT research paper I had to read last quarter about the formulation of the Casimir Effect, Im sure someone can find it. The Casimir Force is just the van der Waals force, a bit modified.

In terms of free energy from the Casimir Effect, Id love to see how someone plans on doing that.

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InvisibleBoom
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: TheCow]
    #7168431 - 07/12/07 09:33 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

:lol:

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Boom]
    #7168560 - 07/12/07 10:03 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

TheCow just read the book I posted on this subject it explain's everything you need to know. This type of technology was first conceieved by Nikola Tesla but never made widely available. Mr.Hal Puthoff is another name you should investigate he is with the Magnetic Power Incorporation which is another company like Steorn that will be releasing this technology this year.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7169132 - 07/13/07 12:03 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

This type of technology was first conceieved by Nikola Tesla

Do you always make shit up?

Tesla died before the Casimir effect was ever proposed. You're just spouting dogma now.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7169440 - 07/13/07 01:06 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Did you not read his quote Diploid

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7169611 - 07/13/07 02:03 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

So a prediction means to you that he already invented it? He was fond of induction, although his schemes would have been impractical and horrible

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: TheCow]
    #7169914 - 07/13/07 05:01 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

> You'll see steorn will prove the skeptic's wrong.

Yes, he has done a very good job at that so far... advertises in an economics magazine for funding, then claims not to be accepting funding, technology validated by eight (not seven, but eight!) phd's, but he can't name them because, well, he has a reason (perhaps they majored in underwater basket weaving?), and to top it off, his demonstration fails, completely, because the lights in the room were too warm, or his dog ate his homework, or something, and yet, some people still believe that his snake oil is something real. Steorn could come out and claim it was all a hoax and people would still think he was on to something... amazing...


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Seuss]
    #7170011 - 07/13/07 06:34 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

LoL are we still talking about this if you guy's would show some patience and understanding you would've already read the book I posted and come to the same conclusion as I did. These guy's aren't hoaxer's they could be doing far better thing's for the world if there was something better for them to do. Honestly do you think it somehow work's to their advantage to have this test demo fail? In the end they will come out on top and how do I know this you ask because I have a good understanding of the physic's behind it. All of the evidence is right in front of your face if your not too blind and jaded to see it. Most of you refuse to believe in it because every other free energy device has been a hoax and I agree with you but this doesn't mean that there won't ever be a free energy machine. If you guy's think this another minato motor your sadly mistaken and your in for a quite a surprise.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (07/13/07 06:39 AM)

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7170022 - 07/13/07 06:46 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

> Honestly do you think it somehow work's to their advantage to have this test demo fail?

Yes. The demo failed due to heat from the lights... continue to fund us and we will have a new heat-proof version to demonstrate soon... and to all the people that think we are fakes... we had a demo; if we were fakes, would we have had a demo knowing it would fail? I think not.

> if you guy's would show some patience and understanding you would've already read the book I posted and come to the same conclusion as I did.

I've have over 200 hours of science and engineering college credit. There is nothing, short of a non-affiliated third party reproducing the effects (peer review), that will convince me that somebody has created an over unity device. I have several thousand years of science to base my skepticism upon.

> and stuck on false-judgement's based on other people's failure's

Actually, I am "stuck on" other people's success... Newton, Einstein, Galileo, Kepler, Bohr, etc.

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Seuss]
    #7170567 - 07/13/07 10:44 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Seuss the people that make this machine are just as smart as Einstein,Newton, Galileo. These are the true innovator's Hal Puthoff who has a PHD from Stanford and both guy's at Steorn are Engineer's that are to work for the oil biz but now they are looking for a better alternative, but of course to you there nothing but some crazy looney's. And why is it the people that mean to do us nothing but good are the one's that are immediately shunned I really don't get it. And yes they will harness the energy of the casimir effect the Zero-Point Energy field is a vast ocean of energy with basically unlimited energy density to suck from. Honestly I've taken alot of science class's and I would be the last person to perpetuate this bullshit if I didn't deam it to be real in the first place. When you read that book it take's away the speculation and instead educates you to a higher level of thinking that not many scientist's have even fathomed over the past couple thousand year's except for one and that's Nikola Tesla. Were is the disconnect here is it the fact that the book is from zpower.com or is it because you are arrogant that you're way is the only way. And I'm not saying I'm completely right but there are force's at play here that need to be clarified before we move on in particular the casimir effect. Please explain to me without sidestepping the question. Where doe's this energy come from and why would it be so difficult to extract the energy given you had the proper tool's which I firmly believe steorn possesses. You can speculate all you want but until you are able to garner the knowledge you are all blind in your quick assumption's. Dissolve your ego and look at this my shoe's for a sec and realize the casimir force is a force to be reckoned with.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (07/13/07 02:10 PM)

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Seuss]
    #7170736 - 07/13/07 11:27 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleZippoZM
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: trendal]
    #7171043 - 07/13/07 12:40 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

:popcorn:


--------------------
PEACE

:mushroom2:zippoz:mushroom2:



"in times of widespread chaos and confusion, it has been the duty of more advanced human beings - artists, scientists, clowns, and philosophers - to create order. In such times as ours however, when there is too much order, too much m management, too much programming and control, it becomes the duty of superior men and women and women to fling their favorite monkey wrenches into the machinery. To relieve the repression of the human spirit, they must sow doubt and disruption"

"People do it every day, they talk to themselves ... they see themselves as they'd like to be, they don't have the courage you have, to just run with it."

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: ZippoZ]
    #7171377 - 07/13/07 02:02 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Very cool trendal that's exactly what this is and can do.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_E._Puthoff


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (07/13/07 02:39 PM)

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7171460 - 07/13/07 02:20 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

> What do all think about this technology now?

If a twelve year old patent for "free energy" hasn't changed the world, then I suspect that it doesn't work.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Seuss]
    #7171536 - 07/13/07 02:38 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)



--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7171830 - 07/13/07 03:52 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I want to see a picture of a working prototype.

Just because something is patented doesn't mean it works at all. There are patents on the books for things that don't work.

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Seuss]
    #7172067 - 07/13/07 05:06 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Patents are issued for ideas, not ideas that necessarily work.

Here are some other hilarious examples of goofy patented ideas that don't work:

5107620: Electrified table cloth - Dsigned to discourgage bugs from crawling on a table cloth, the electrified table cloth shocks them, much like an invisible dog fence. I'm not sure this idea is so crazy -- if anyone knows where to get one of these, let me know :smile: Submitted by Karan Morrow.

4858627: A smoker's hat with an air intake, which filters and then expels the air. Looks pretty much like wearing the exhaust hood for a stove on your head.

5265827: Paddle Wheel Airplane - Does this thing really fly??? I'd be amazed.

5901666: Pet display clothing - wearable hamster Habitrail! This is a system of tubes that you can wear around, while your hamster crawls around in them. I have yet to see anyone wearing this, so I am guessing that it wasn't a smashing success at the pet stores (or clothing stores?).

5443036: Method of exercising a cat - In 1993 the USPTO issued this patent for using a laser pointer to exercise a cat (yes, by moving the laser pointer beam around and having the cat chase it). Come on now... Not only is this crazy to patent, but this idea had surely been thought of long before this patent came about. In fact, a bit of research turned up the book "One Hundred and Eighty-Seven Ways to Amuse a Bored Cat" (Ballantine Books; May, 1982) that describes the exact same idea, but using a flashlight. Sorry guys -- the use of a laser pointer for the same thing is obvious.

6368227: Method of swinging on a swing - So these fools think that in all the years of swinging no one has ever before thought to pull on the opposite chains and swing form side to side? Well, I guess they got the patent office to issue the patent, so I'm not sure who the fool really is... But, even so, what do these guys expect to do with this anyway? Are they going to go around and collect royalties from kids on the playground?

And my favorite:

3216423: Apparatus - for facilitating the birth of a child by centrifugal force This one is too old to have full-text, so you are going to have to look at the pictures -- but it's worth it. I can't help but wonder if this device was ever actually used? Submitted by Dan.

Many more idiot patents here: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/crazy.html

Summary: patents (especially 12 year old ones) mean little unless you have a working prototype like Steorn doesn't.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7172106 - 07/13/07 05:20 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

buddhahoodlum said:
I have a good understanding of the physic's behind it.



:rofl:
hahaha
How much physics do you actually know?  Hell Ive taken a year of quantum physics, and a physics class that went over various quantum topics including Quantum Field Theory and I don't even have a good understanding of the physics at the moment anymore. 

Im not going to read a book meant to persuade people who know nothing of physics about their bullshit.  If the book isn't composed primarily of topics with explanations which include long derivations of equations then it is irrelevant to me

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Offlineiateshaggy
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7172239 - 07/13/07 06:04 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

buddhahoodlum is Steorn. he came here to learn to grow shrooms so he can have one semi legit business to fall back on after his investors come after him.

hey steorn, can u make me some zero point AA batteries, my new camera is eating them up.


--------------------
You are a filipina sex goddess who wants to fuck me until I fall asleep, so then you can tickle my balls and see if the legend of my diamond filled nutsuck is true.  I am a white man from costa rica, who smells like lime jello.


I can flash/jtag/repair 360's, pm for details.

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7172298 - 07/13/07 06:28 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

So what your saying is...

5107620: works, but it's stupid
4858627: works, but it's stupid
5265827: I've seen a foam disc that flew and was controllable...
5901666: works, but it's stupid
5443036: works, but it's stupid
6368227: works, but it's stupid
...

I thought you couldn't patent a thing which you couldn't build...but maybe that's just me. :shrug:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: trendal]
    #7172328 - 07/13/07 06:43 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I thought you couldn't patent a thing which you couldn't build...but maybe that's just me. :shrug:


Generally that is the case, but its not always true.

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Offlineiateshaggy
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7172843 - 07/13/07 09:38 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

there is actually a guy who got rich dreaming up products that he thought might get invented in the future and getting patents on them and then suing the person who actually does invent it. he never invented shit, just invented the idea of products.


--------------------
You are a filipina sex goddess who wants to fuck me until I fall asleep, so then you can tickle my balls and see if the legend of my diamond filled nutsuck is true.  I am a white man from costa rica, who smells like lime jello.


I can flash/jtag/repair 360's, pm for details.

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: iateshaggy]
    #7173153 - 07/13/07 10:54 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

iateshaggy said:
buddhahoodlum is Steorn. he came here to learn to grow shrooms so he can have one semi legit business to fall back on after his investors come after him.

hey steorn, can u make me some zero point AA batteries, my new camera is eating them up.





HaHaHa now that's some funny shit right there.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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OfflineRuNE
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7173275 - 07/13/07 11:25 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I have a good understanding of the physic's behind it.




Quote:

Honestly I've taken alot of science class's...




*classes

But anyway, what sort of credits do you posses? A Master's at least, since our teeny heads are so far under the sand for you.

Can you give us a bit of further insight into your education?


--------------------
~Happy sailing~

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: RuNE]
    #7173359 - 07/13/07 11:57 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I took physic's my senior year of high school. Then I discovered this technology because I saw a episode on tech tv about Mark Tomlion and his his space ship that use's this tech that's what first got me interested. Oh and thanks for correcting my grammar again.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (07/13/07 11:59 PM)

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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7173673 - 07/14/07 02:33 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

The Apostrophe

Brought to you by the Purdue University Online Writing Lab


The apostrophe has three uses:

1) to form possessives of nouns
2) to show the omission of letters
3) to indicate certain plurals of lowercase letters.

Apostrophes are NOT used for possessive pronouns or for noun plurals, including acronyms.


Forming possessives of nouns

To see if you need to make a possessive, turn the phrase around and make it an "of the..." phrase. For example:

the boy's hat = the hat of the boy

three days' journey = journey of three days

If the noun after "of" is a building, an object, or a piece of furniture, then no apostrophe is needed!

room of the hotel = hotel room

door of the car = car door

leg of the table = table leg

Once you've determined whether you need to make a possessive, follow these rules to create one.

add 's to the singular form of the word (even if it ends in -s):
the owner's car

James's hat

add 's to the plural forms that do not end in -s:

the children's game

the geese's honking

add ' to the end of plural nouns that end in -s:

houses' roofs

three friends' letters

add 's to the end of compound words:

my brother-in-law's money

 • add 's to the last noun to show joint possession of an object:

Todd and Anne's apartment

Showing omission of letters

Apostrophes are used in contractions. A contraction is a word (or set of numbers) in which one or more letters (or numbers) have been omitted. The apostrophe shows this omission. Contractions are common in speaking and in informal writing. To use an apostrophe to create a contraction, place an apostrophe where the omitted letter(s) would go. Here are some examples:

don't = do not

I'm = I am

he'll = he will

who's = who is

shouldn't = should not

didn't = did not

could've= could have (NOT "could of"!)

'60 = 1960


Forming plurals of lowercase letters

Apostrophes are used to form plurals of letters that appear in lowercase; here the rule appears to be more typographical than grammatical, e.g. "three ps" versus "three p's." To form the plural of a lowercase letter, place 's after the letter. There is no need for apostrophes indicating a plural on capitalized letters, numbers, and symbols (though keep in mind that some editors, teachers, and professors still prefer them). Here are some examples:

p's and q's = a phrase indicating politeness, possibly from "mind your pleases and thankyous"?

Nita's mother constantly stressed minding one's p's and q's.

three Macintosh G4s = three of the Macintosh model G4

There are two G4s currently used in the writing classrom.

many &s = many ampersands

That printed page has too many &s on it.

the 1960s = the years in decade from 1960 to 1969

The 1960s were a time of great social unrest.


Don't use apostrophes for possessive pronouns or for noun plurals.

Apostrophes should not be used with possessive pronouns because possessive pronouns already show possession -- they don't need an apostrophe. His, her, its, my, yours, ours are all possessive pronouns. Here are some examples:

 

wrong: his' book

correct: his book

 

wrong: The group made it's decision.

correct: The group made its decision.

(Note: Its and it's are not the same thing. It's is a contraction for "it is" and its is a possesive pronoun meaning "belonging to it." It's raining out= it is raining out. A simple way to remember this rule is the fact that you don't use an apostrophe for the possesives his or hers, so don't do it with its!)

 

wrong: a friend of yours'

correct: a friend of yours

 

wrong: She waited for three hours' to get her ticket.

correct: She waited for three hours to get her ticket.


Proofreading for apostrophes

A good time to proofread is when you have finished writing the paper. Try the following strategies to proofread for apostrophes:

• If you tend to leave out apostrophes, check every word that ends in -s or -es to see if it needs an apostrophe.

• If you put in too many apostrophes, check every apostrophe to see if you can justify it with a rule for using apostrophes.

We have interactive exercises on using apostrophes: you can try apostrophe exercise one or apostrophe exercise two.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Anno]
    #7174185 - 07/14/07 09:17 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

He didn't take English in school, Anno. He was too busy taking physic's. :tongue:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineRuNE
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7174615 - 07/14/07 11:40 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Your 'mood icon' is correct my friend.


--------------------
~Happy sailing~

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Offlineiateshaggy
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7174619 - 07/14/07 11:41 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

i wish i went to his school. when i went to high school, my physics teacher never even mentioned zero point energy. he just taught us about projectile trajectories and energy wave interaction.


--------------------
You are a filipina sex goddess who wants to fuck me until I fall asleep, so then you can tickle my balls and see if the legend of my diamond filled nutsuck is true.  I am a white man from costa rica, who smells like lime jello.


I can flash/jtag/repair 360's, pm for details.

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7184689 - 07/16/07 07:27 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

If energy cannot be created then what was the big bang?

Am I confused or is science a contradiction?

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Ego Death]
    #7184696 - 07/16/07 07:30 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

If energy cannot be created then what was the big bang?

The Big Bang didn't create any energy. All of the energy currently present in the universe was present at the Big Bang.

Am I confused or is science a contradiction?

You're confused :wink:


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: trendal]
    #7184705 - 07/16/07 07:32 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

***Raises Hand***

I guess I am in the Confused Club too....    :frown:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: trendal]
    #7194509 - 07/18/07 08:33 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

How did the energy become present?

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Ego Death]
    #7194615 - 07/18/07 08:58 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

The energy is an intrinsic property of empty space. What you're asking amounts to asking where the universe came from.

Nobody knows.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7195851 - 07/19/07 12:41 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

&mode=related&search=

&mode=related&search=



--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (07/19/07 09:06 PM)

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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7197922 - 07/19/07 01:26 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
5265827: Paddle Wheel Airplane - Does this thing really fly??? I'd be amazed.




I'm not sure this is the same thing, but interesting nonetheless.

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3115272#3115272


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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OfflineFocusHawaii
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7198770 - 07/19/07 05:00 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I love your second video Buddha.

I mean, using the properties of energy to logically link it to a theologians perspective of God; brilliant. Not to mention the ability of energy to do work. Hey! We can do work, so we're energy and therefore God!

This is rubbish, forcing connections between a scientific phenomenon and a supernatural being by a "philosopher", playing some eerie background music, and pretending this stuff is truth is potentially dangerous.

Another thing, I like the structure of the film. Have the scientists talk about energy and then convolute it with a philosopher's idea about the universe to pretend that the scientist agrees with him.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: FocusHawaii]
    #7201226 - 07/20/07 04:46 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

This is rubbish, forcing connections between a scientific phenomenon and a supernatural being by a "philosopher", playing some eerie background music, and pretending this stuff is truth is potentially dangerous.




By Richard Feynman:

Quote:

I think the educational and psychological studies I mentioned are
examples of what I would like to call cargo cult science. In the
South Seas there is a cargo cult of people. During the war they saw
airplanes land with lots of good materials, and they want the same
thing to happen now. So they've arranged to imitate things like
runways, to put fires along the sides of the runways, to make a
wooden hut for a man to sit in, with two wooden pieces on his head
like headphones and bars of bamboo sticking out like antennas--he's
the controller--and they wait for the airplanes to land. They're
doing everything right. The form is perfect. It looks exactly the
way it looked before. But it doesn't work. No airplanes land. So
I call these things cargo cult science, because they follow all the
apparent precepts and forms of scientific investigation, but
they're missing something essential, because the planes don't land.

Now it behooves me, of course, to tell you what they're missing.
But it would be just about as difficult to explain to the South Sea
Islanders how they have to arrange things so that they get some
wealth in their system. It is not something simple like telling
them how to improve the shapes of the earphones. But there is one
feature I notice that is generally missing in cargo cult science.
That is the idea that we all hope you have learned in studying
science in school--we never explicitly say what this is, but just
hope that you catch on by all the examples of scientific
investigation. It is interesting, therefore, to bring it out now
and speak of it explicitly. It's a kind of scientific integrity,
a principle of scientific thought that corresponds to a kind of
utter honesty--a kind of leaning over backwards. For example, if
you're doing an experiment, you should report everything that you
think might make it invalid--not only what you think is right about
it: other causes that could possibly explain your results; and
things you thought of that you've eliminated by some other
experiment, and how they worked--to make sure the other fellow can
tell they have been eliminated.

Details that could throw doubt on your interpretation must be
given, if you know them. You must do the best you can--if you know
anything at all wrong, or possibly wrong--to explain it. If you
make a theory, for example, and advertise it, or put it out, then
you must also put down all the facts that disagree with it, as well
as those that agree with it. There is also a more subtle problem.
When you have put a lot of ideas together to make an elaborate
theory, you want to make sure, when explaining what it fits, that
those things it fits are not just the things that gave you the idea
for the theory; but that the finished theory makes something else
come out right, in addition.




The entire thing can be read at http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/cargocul.htm


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Seuss]
    #7202507 - 07/20/07 01:13 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Dude are you serious if anyone knew about this type of technology it would be someone just like Richard Feynman. People used to think nanotechnology was impossible 60 year's ago but now we are finally realizing the benefit's of it and putting it into action. So what make's you think this technology is any different?


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7202773 - 07/20/07 02:26 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

> So what make's you think this technology is any different?

Oh, I donno, maybe, perhaps, because nanotech doesn't violate one of the foundations of everything we understand to be true about how our reality works?

> if anyone knew about this type of technology it would be someone just like Richard Feynman

No, Feynman was being very blunt about how harmful people like Steorn are to science and how much of a joke people like Steorn are in the eyes of professional, educated scientists.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineFocusHawaii
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Seuss]
    #7203109 - 07/20/07 03:52 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Amusing and insightful link. Thanks for the post.

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: FocusHawaii]
    #7203353 - 07/20/07 05:01 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

If it were all up to Seuss we wouldn't even investigate quantum phenomenon because apparently he thinks all of the mechanic's of the universe have been figured out already.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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OfflineFocusHawaii
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7203394 - 07/20/07 05:20 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Speculate absent-mindedly a little more, it's always the surest sign of a good scientist.

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: FocusHawaii]
    #7204187 - 07/20/07 08:58 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Ya and any scientist with a mind would be able to ascertain that this is legit if presented with strong evidence which is were Steorn come's into play.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7204232 - 07/20/07 09:05 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

presented with strong evidence which is were Steorn come's into play

Did I miss something? Steorn's demonstration was a failure. :rolleyes:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7223065 - 07/25/07 04:59 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

This book is a must read for anyone who wants to understand the underlying ether of are universe.

http://www.teslatech.info/ttstore/books/260003.htm


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7223346 - 07/25/07 05:55 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

From your link:

Rho Sigma's classic book on Anti-Gravity and Free Energy is back in print! First published in 1977, this ground-breaking book delves into the international efforts at gravity control and discoid craft propulsion.

I find it amusing that it doesn't seem to bother you one little bit that these people have been writing books since 1977, but they haven't managed to build a single machine that even comes close to working.

You remind me of the Catholic church. :rofl:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineSymmetryGroup8
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7223512 - 07/25/07 06:47 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

LOL... Either buddaha works for them or he's the biggest sucker for fucking buying this book for $12 dollars.

LOL LOL LOL.


--------------------
Be like water my friend!

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Offlinedelta9
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: SymmetryGroup8]
    #7223569 - 07/25/07 07:03 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I've been thinking he was trying to make money for them since his first posts about it. I mean, really, he keeps spamming us with all these book links and clearly is not a reasoning entity!


--------------------
delta9

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: delta9]
    #7226551 - 07/26/07 12:49 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Ha ha I'm not spamming anything delta9 just trying to help get the info out there that's all. And Diploid you shouldn't just assume that because they have had this technology for awhile that they should also have a working prototype. This technology is very advanced and even most scientist's have trouble comprehending ether mainly because none of them have seen it, but for the theory of relativity to be complete it call's for this missing ether in the universe. Otherwise an atom would simply collapse onto itself. Go do some more reading on the material's that I already gave you and you'll have alot greater comprehension of the subject. This isn't just pseudoscience it's unexplained science which is what every great scientist in the world is striving to figure out.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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Offlinedelta9
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7226735 - 07/26/07 01:38 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

buddhahoodlum said:
Ha ha I'm not spamming anything delta9 just trying to help get the info out there that's all.



You're spamming inane book links to this subforum. Subjectivity, part of this reality, for good or bad.

Quote:

And Diploid you shouldn't just assume that because they have had this technology for awhile that they should also have a working prototype. This technology is very advanced and even most scientist's have trouble comprehending ether mainly because none of them have seen it, ...



Sorry, I *am* a bit into syntax and grammar (trust me, they are important). At any rate, unclear underlined section aside, the bold section literally SCREAMS. Scientists *love* showing off their stuff to other scientists. It is particularly not science-like at all for TONS of scientists to have NOT seen this technology.


--------------------
delta9

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7226767 - 07/26/07 01:56 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

> And Diploid you shouldn't just assume that because they have had this technology for awhile that they should also have a working prototype.

Technology is tangible... theories are not. They have a theory, not technology. The fact that no technology has been developed as a result of their theory tends to lead one to suspect that their theory may be bunk.

Take relativity for example. It is a theory. Within a few years of publication of the theory there were tangible technologies/experiments that had been developed to test the theory.

> This technology is very advanced

Again, it is a theory, not technology.

> even most scientist's have trouble comprehending ether mainly because none of them have seen it

Lame excuse. If they published their theory in a scientific journal, then scientists would see it. Of course, the theory has to be scientifically sound before any reputable journal will publish it. Again, this would lead me to believe that what they have is bunk.

> for the theory of relativity to be complete it call's for this missing ether in the universe

Quite the opposite. Relativity explains how the mass, space, and time are related in the absence of some mythical ether. Relativity came about after experiments (gasp) showed that there was no ether.

> Go do some more reading on the material's that I already gave you

Not until you provide me with something that is peer reviewed by other scientists. I don't waste time reading non-journal pseudo-science. (Just because something is in a scientific journal does not mean that it is correct, only that it meets the criteria of being scientific or founded in science.)

> This isn't just pseudoscience

By your own admission it is party pseudoscience, and that is enough for me...

> it's unexplained science

No, it isn't science at all. It is fantasy. In terms you can relate with, Harry Potter isn't just fantasy, it is unexplained reality?!

> which is what every great scientist in the world is striving to figure out

I don't know of any "great scientist" that is working to figure out perpetual motion... lots of great con artists working to convince people that they have figured out perpetual motion...

I have worked with great scientists, including a nobel prize winner, on everything from high temperature superconductors (measuring seabeck coefficients of ceramics from near absolute zero to a thousand degrees kelvin) to quantum entanglement and spin theory (not that I understood much of it; I mainly wrote code for the project).

How many years of graduate level physics have you had again? How did you do in those upper mathematics classes... certainly line integrals and calculus of variations don't give you problems, do they? You can explain what an eigenvalue is, yes? How about Z-transforms, any good with those? Can you label an Feynman diagram? If you don't know what I am talking about, then you really have no place telling us that our understanding of science is incorrect and that your understand is not.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineRuNE
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7226946 - 07/26/07 02:43 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

buddhahoodlum said:*





:owned:


--------------------
~Happy sailing~

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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Seuss]
    #7227568 - 07/26/07 05:57 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Wow. That couldn't be any more clear and should be the end of this discussion.

Something tells me he won't believe you though.

By the way, it's 0 years of graduate level physics.  Further back he explained that his experience is limited to high school physics.  That's how he's able to understand this so much better than everyone else, he wasn't indoctrinated with higher level education and consequently has no wool over his eyes.:D


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #7228850 - 07/27/07 12:31 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Seuss I'm not here to discuss my credential's. I have heard of everything you said thought and I understand it a little but I'm not exactly a math major so I'm sure I wouldn't understand alot of the equation's involved but that's beside the point here. People this technology is also being developed by Hal Puthoff he used to work for the CIA this guy is no joke and his company MPI will be making ZPE available to the public soon and I'm sure Steorn will be too. This technology is just now going mainstream if can read then you should be able to comprehend it. Here Seuss is this a little more credible info for ya http://www.calphysics.org/zpe.html

Part pertaining to extraction of energy from ZPE field.


FORWARD THOUGHT EXPERIMENT

There is growing interest concerning the possibility of tapping zero-point energy and many claims exist of ''over unity devices'' (gadgets yielding a greater output than the required input for operation) driven by zero-point energy. In spite of the dubious nature of these claims (to date no such device has passed a rigorous, objective test), the concept of converting some amount of zero-point energy to usable energy cannot be ruled out in principle. Zero-point energy is not a thermal reservoir, and therefore does not suffer from the thermodynamic injunction against extracting energy from a lower temperature reservoir.

In 1993 Cole and Puthoff published a thermodynamic analysis, ''Extracting energy and heat from the vacuum'' (see below), in which they concluded that ''extracting energy and heat from electromagnetic zero-point radiation via the use of the Casimir force'' is in principle possible without violating the laws of thermodynamics.

A thought experiment for a device that readily demonstrates how the Casimir force could be put to use in principle was proposed by physicist Robert Forward in 1984 (see below). A ''vacuum fluctuation battery'' could be constructed consisting of stacked conducting plates. Applying the same polarity charge to all the plates would yield a repulsive force between plates, thereby opposing the Casimir force which is acting to push the plates together. Adjusting the electrostatic force so as to permit the Casimir force to dominate will result in adding energy to the electric field between the plates, thereby converting zero-point energy to electric energy.

One can imagine an even simpler microdevice in which the Casimir force pushes two plates together thereby engaging some kind of lever which does work.

There is no practical application in these examples since ideally it would take just as much energy, and in practice somewhat more energy owing to frictional and other losses, to separate the plates for a second cycle. Nevertheless, this would demonstrate the concept of conversion of zero-point energy in principle if the Casimir effect attribution to zero-point energy is correct (which is debatable).


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7228884 - 07/27/07 12:43 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Man definitely need to read that shit when I'm had 8 hours of sleep, because right now it's just wha?


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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: SymmetryGroup8]
    #7228888 - 07/27/07 12:44 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

All I can say is I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY HOPE free energy works!!!!!!!!!!!!

WHY WOULD I NOT!


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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7229464 - 07/27/07 04:40 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

> Here Seuss is this a little more credible info for ya

Be sure you read the last line...

Quote:

Nevertheless, this would demonstrate the concept of conversion of zero-point energy in principle if the Casimir effect attribution to zero-point energy is correct (which is debatable).




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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Seuss]
    #7230174 - 07/27/07 11:19 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Which is exactly what I'm doing. I'm trying to debate this with you and show you the evidence that's been presented to me. It's up to you to make your own decision on whether it's real or not. Me I prefer to believe the PHD from Stanford rather than people who are quick to clame hoax's without any previous background dealing with this type of technology. Hal Puthoff I'll say it one more time he is the man.


Link incase anyone missed it
http://www.calphysics.org/zpe.html


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7230282 - 07/27/07 11:48 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Last line of the above link, in case anybody missed it:

Quote:

Nevertheless, this would demonstrate the concept of conversion of zero-point energy in principle if the Casimir effect attribution to zero-point energy is correct (which is debatable).




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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7232140 - 07/27/07 09:46 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Excerpt from an interview with Sean McCarthy, the CEO of Steorn:

Q: So do you have a time-frame that you're looking at for the next demo?

A: What we've decided to do this time, is rather then beating ourselves with a stick, we're going to get it running in a location and then we are going to announce that people can watch it online.

Watch it online instead of examine it in person? You mean so you can cheat?

He does say he'll provide public access, but why not at a university engineering department instead of an art gallery with hot lights or online where he can fake it?

These guys are such transparent shysters (or maybe genuinely delusional) I'm still absolutely floored every time I hear someone defending them. Geezuz! When will people get it?

Read the whole interview here.


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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7232320 - 07/27/07 10:59 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Who care's that's irrelevant anyways they just need to have the scientist's validate the theory. I'm sure Hal Puthoff is also pursuing this same course.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7232389 - 07/27/07 11:24 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

They have not published any theory to validate and they don't have a working prototype.

All they have is a failed demonstration, unkept promises, and a full page newspaper ad asking for investors. Go figure.


--------------------
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2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7232412 - 07/27/07 11:32 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

By the way, it turns out that Hal Puthoff is the same gullible guy who was bamboozled by the phony psychic Uri Geller's spoon bending trickery. He still believes it's genuine.

He's clearly being duped again and tossing his name around as validation for a magic machine is ironically hilarious.

Thanks for the laugh. :rofl2:


--------------------
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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7232586 - 07/28/07 12:48 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

You might wanna read his wiki again all it said is that he investigated Uri Geller's Paranormal Activities conducted by the NSA so I guess that make's them crazy too with your logic . It also said nothing of the sort that he believed any of the evidence they gathered. Again besides the point this is what happening now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institute_for_Advanced_Studies_at_Austin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_E._Puthoff


This guy is also big in this field

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Haisch

There exists a background sea of quantum light filling the universe and that light generates a force that opposes acceleration when you push on any material object. That is why matter seems to be solid, stable stuff that we, and the world, are made of. So maybe matter resists acceleration not because it possesses some innate thing called mass as Newton proposed and we all believed, but because the zero-point field exerts a force whenever acceleration takes place.

– Bernard Haisch, The God Theory


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (10/26/07 03:02 PM)

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7232621 - 07/28/07 01:04 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

From http://skepdic.com/geller.html

Quote:

In the 1970s, Geller was tested at the Stanford Research Institute (SRI) by Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ. Puthoff and Targ deemed Geller such a gifted psychic that they invented a term to describe his powers: the "Geller effect."



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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Anno]
    #7233476 - 07/28/07 12:06 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Anno said:
From http://skepdic.com/geller.html

Quote:

In the 1970s, Geller was tested at the Stanford Research Institute (SRI) by Hal Puthoff and Russell Targ. Puthoff and Targ deemed Geller such a gifted psychic that they invented a term to describe his powers: the "Geller effect."






check this guy out who exposes these people, at the end of the vidio he owns a televangelist.


--------------------
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: iateshaggy]
    #7233545 - 07/28/07 12:31 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

LMAO again who care's all this guy did is investigate people with esp power's that doesn't mean he actually believed any of it. This is what scientist's do they investigate claims made my people. If we didn't have people like Hal Puthoff we would never progress in science at all because we would dismiss everyone's claim's of new invention's. Even if Uri Gellar was proven to be fake that doesn't mean Hal Puthoff is fake because he investigated them doe's it. I would sure hope not. So please stop with the petty arguments and come up with something that actually argues the point were talking about here.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (10/26/07 03:05 PM)

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7233601 - 07/28/07 12:48 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

that doesn't mean he actually believed any of it

You didn't read Anno's excerpt. Here it is again:

Quote:

Puthoff and Targ deemed Geller such a gifted psychic that they invented a term to describe his powers: the "Geller effect."




So please stop with the petty argument

It's not a petty argument to point out that your star witness is a gullible fool.

and come up with something that actually argue's the point were talking about here

You mean like that the Steorn demonstration was a flop?


--------------------
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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7233785 - 07/28/07 01:40 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Yes actually I did read his excerpt. Ya wow they were duped one time by this guy. What matters is that those are two highly esteemed scientist's that are doing far better things with their time, but I sincerely commend them for investigating him since no one else seems to really care. Also you seem to forget that your own government funded most of these experiment's. These are Physicist's with PHD's and yes they too have come out and said that this technology could very well be completely wrong but you know what I think it's the best idea we have left to clean up this dirty world. So with that being said give them some respect there a whole lot more knowledgeable on the subject then you or I. So instead of being a non-believer be the person that disproves their equations. Oh and if you want those I got them aswell since you seem to think that it's not on paper yet or something.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (10/26/07 03:07 PM)

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7234213 - 07/28/07 04:12 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

do u still believe this crap or do u just not want to admit that u were wrong? the faster u realize that steorn scammed u out of money, the faster u can stop sending him more money, unless u are steorn, in which case, we are not sending u any money.


--------------------
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: iateshaggy]
    #7234293 - 07/28/07 04:36 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I dont think he will ever admit he was wrong to us here on the forum. He was backed into a corner and has no way to change his opinion without looking (more) foolish.

Of course the best way to convince somebody is to leave them a way out, so they can agree with you without looking like they were "wrong". This is hard to do with an unorganized debate like this one.

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: DieCommie]
    #7240525 - 07/30/07 04:41 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Yes Shaggy I usually do tend to side with Cal State Physicist's rather than people on the shroomery even though I know some of you are very smart.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7240627 - 07/30/07 05:26 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

At least Shroomerites are smart enough to know that Uri Geller's a phony. :razz:


--------------------
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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7563332 - 10/26/07 01:12 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Great article on Bernard Haish and ZPE. http://www.metroactive.com/papers/metro/11.04.99/lightphysics-9944.html. Also you should check out Joe Firmages videos on youtube.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7563506 - 10/26/07 02:09 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

The only "free energy" that I support is this

The refrigerator in your kitchen is the only "free energy machine" you currently own. It's an electrically operated heat pump. It uses one amount of energy (electricity) to move three amounts of energy (heat). This gives it a "coefficient of performance" (COP) of about 3. Your refrigerator uses one amount of electricity to pump three amounts of heat from the inside of the refrigerator to the outside of the refrigerator. This is its typical use, but it is the worst possible way to use the technology. Here's why. A heat pump pumps heat from the "source" of heat to the "sink" or place that absorbs the heat. The "source" of heat should obviously be HOT and the "sink" for heat should obviously be COLD for this process to work the best. In your refrigerator, it's exactly the opposite. The "source" of heat is inside the box, which is COLD, and the "sink" for heat is the room temperature air of your kitchen, which is warmer than the source. This is why the COP remains low for your kitchen refrigerator. But this is not true for all heat pumps. COP's of 8 to 10 are easily attained with solar assisted heat pumps. In such a device, a heat pump draws heat from a solar collector and dumps the heat into a large underground absorber, which remains at 55° F, and mechanical energy is extracted in the transfer. This process is equivalent to a steam engine that extracts mechanical energy between the boiler and the condenser, except that it uses a fluid that "boils" at a much lower temperature than water. One such system that was tested in the 1970's produced 350 hp, measured on a Dynamometer, in a specially designed engine from just 100-sq. ft. of solar collector. (This is NOT the system promoted by Dennis Lee.) The amount of energy it took to run the compressor (input) was less than 20 hp, so this system produced more than 17 times more energy than it took to keep it going! It could power a small neighborhood from the roof of a hot tub gazebo, using exactly the same technology that keeps the food cold in your kitchen. Currently, there is an industrial scale heat pump system just north of Kona, Hawaii that generates electricity from temperature differences in ocean water.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_thermal_energy_conversion

This method is good as well. Still solar power, but works at night, and it's efficent compared to unreliable photovoltaic cells.


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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #7563587 - 10/26/07 02:34 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Honestly though just because there is no prototype yet doesn't mean anyone has refuted there mathematics on Zero-Point Energy conversion. Thats pretty cool about the fridge though I had no idea that worked but still nothing compares to extracting energy out of the vacuum that we are all submerished in at every point in our lives.

On a side note here is some more info on what I'm talking about http://www.physorg.com/news100753984.html

Financier

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Firmage

Bernard Haish's book and no i'm not a freaken salesman but this book explain's everything.
http://amazon.com/gp/product/1578633745/ref=s9_asin_title_1/105-9732711-0282068?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=1W54ZCNMD4RGMTGWVX4J&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=278240301&pf_rd_i=507846


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (10/26/07 02:59 PM)

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7563744 - 10/26/07 03:37 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

still no proof of it working, when that happens, we will believe you...

explanations are nice...but still it just doesn't work

peace

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7564210 - 10/26/07 06:09 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Virtual particles are nice, but the technology is expensive and crude. Heatpumps exist and we use them and they are efficent. Solar power through heatpump extraction should be the power all of us use.


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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #11505335 - 11/22/09 04:26 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

So, old thread, I know, but there's new news.

I'm pretty sure some big energy corporation is to blame, but Steorn, three years after their imminent public demonstration that will change the world with free zero-point energy abruptly closed their public forum without warning or explanation.

I guess they milked the people who believe in magic for all they had. If history is any guide, they'll start up again with a new name and begin the milking process one more time. And you know what? The cows will line up. They always do. :yesnod:

http://www.steorn.com/forum/



Here's the timeline so far:

Jury Report
A blog has been set up by the members of the Steorn jury  More...
22 June 2009
Steorn launches SteornLab and sets out plans for 2009 launch of Orbo

Steorn launches the first of the four technology streams associated with the development of Orbo technology  More...
4 February 2009
President Mary McAleese visits Steorn as part of the Bolton Trust 20th anniversary celebrations

Bolton Trust, owners of Docklands Innovation Park, celebrates it's 20th anniversary  More...
4 October 2007
Steorn announcement: Kinetica Demonstration

Further to Steorn’s announcement yesterday (5th July) regarding the technical difficulties experienced during the installation of its “Orbo” technology at the Kinentica Museum in London.  More...
6 July 2007
Steorn announces plans for widespread deployment of its free energy technology post-validation

Dublin, 11th January 2007 - Full access to free energy technology will be made available via online development and support infrastructure  More...
11 January 2007
Steorn finalises contracts for jury to test its free energy technology

1st December 2006 - Steorn, the technology development company, today announces that it has finalised and signed contracts with an independent jury who will test Steorn's free energy technology.  More...
1 December 2006
Steorn announces end of selection process for jury of scientists and academics to test its free energy technology

10 November 2006 - Contracts to be completed with Jury by Friday 1st December  More...
10 November 2006
Steorn moves closer to test phase as it sets deadline for receipt of academic and professional credentials

4 October 2006 - Credentials to be received by midnight, Thursday October 5th 2006  More...
4 October 2006
Steorn calls time on application process for scientists to step forward and test free energy technology

25 August 2006 - Closing date set for 12 midnight, September 8th 2006 after more than 3,000 scientists apply  More...
25 August 2006
Steorn develops free energy technology and issues challenge to the global scientific community

17 August 2006 - Steorn places advertisement in The Economist appealing to the world’s most qualified scientists for public validation of its technology  More...
17 August 2006
Congratulations to Blackhawk.


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1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #11508974 - 11/23/09 04:03 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

You can't fool all the people all of the time, but you can fool enough of the people some of the time to remain profitable... it helps to include a magnet.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #11509849 - 11/23/09 10:19 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
If you all really want to understand the science behind the talk

If you want anyone to take you seriously, link up a real science journal. You won't because none of them bother with crap pseudoscience any more than with alien abductions and anal probes. :rolleyes:




I've posted journal links, they tend to be ignored. Sure there's lots of frauds but most of the great discoveries were considered 'pseudo-science' in their time.
I don't understand the hostility, sure these guys are just selling books and DVDs but when a scientist finally does tap the vacuum, (s)he will have had to take interest.

"It only takes one single white crow to prove that not all crows are black."

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Middleman]
    #11512583 - 11/23/09 04:36 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I don't understand the hostility

I've said this before but lemme explain it to you again...

Many laypeople (Steorn for example) present new cockamamie ideas that are totally contrary to established ideas, and they meet with resistance not because their ideas are contrary, but because they are LAYPEOPLE.

Name one example of a successful, paradigm-changing scientist who wasn't a practiced expert on the OLD paradigm first. Copernicus? Newton? Harvey? Kepler? Einstein? Maxwell? Watson & Crick? Boltzmann? Mendeleev? Planck? Feynman? Gell-Mann? Hubble? Lyell? Agassiz? Darwin? Tesla?

True some of these people's ideas were not accepted initially, but all of them understood and were practiced masters of the old way before they rocked the world with their new way.

Steorn and his ilk are all hacks, not masters. Hacks who've never done anything but dupe gullible people out of their money, and their publications show they don't even understand the old basics taught at high school level, let alone are they proposing anything new or revolutionary.

Deliberately ignoring your predecessors might be a good strategy in entrepreneurship, but it's definitely not in science. And THAT'S why every crackpot who reads Popular Mechanics and thinks he's a physicist is ridiculed and ignored.

The day a real physicist (not some guy who bought a Ph.D for $200 online) says in a peer-reviewed paper that he's invented a perpetual motion machine, I promise you everyone on Earth will sit up and pay attention. Until then, we'll just laugh at all the fools who 'invest' in the new Earth-shaking magnet idea that somehow never shakes anything at all.

So yeah, when some know-it-all nobody's ever heard of shows up proclaiming that he's single-handedly destroyed the foundations of physics and posts ads in finance magazines daring scientists to disprove his contraption, he gets the reaction he deserves.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlineiateshaggy
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #11513450 - 11/23/09 06:20 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

see what cha went and started?  now there is gonna be 50 more tldr post on the web that i'm not gonna read and agree w/ half of them.


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You are a filipina sex goddess who wants to fuck me until I fall asleep, so then you can tickle my balls and see if the legend of my diamond filled nutsuck is true.  I am a white man from costa rica, who smells like lime jello.


I can flash/jtag/repair 360's, pm for details.

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #11517405 - 11/24/09 09:16 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I don't understand the hostility

I've said this before but lemme explain it to you again...

Many laypeople (Steorn for example) present new cockamamie ideas that are totally contrary to established ideas, and they meet with resistance not because their ideas are contrary, but because they are LAYPEOPLE.

Name one example of a successful, paradigm-changing scientist who wasn't a practiced expert on the OLD paradigm first.




I understand that, the hostility seems to extend to academics who work in 'protoscientific' fields, which only seems to slow progress due to academics 'playing it safe' .

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Offlineiateshaggy
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Middleman]
    #11517601 - 11/24/09 09:55 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

the academics didn't play it safe, they used scientific method.
they made a hypothesis: this guy is a crook and his shit will never work.
they tested their hypothysis: gave him plenty of time to make it work.
they reported their findings: dude is a crook.


--------------------
You are a filipina sex goddess who wants to fuck me until I fall asleep, so then you can tickle my balls and see if the legend of my diamond filled nutsuck is true.  I am a white man from costa rica, who smells like lime jello.


I can flash/jtag/repair 360's, pm for details.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Middleman]
    #11521668 - 11/24/09 07:35 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

> academics who work in 'protoscientific' fields

What do you mean 'protoscientific'?  Any academic practicing the traditional meaning of the word, "science" predating the scientific method, such as alchemy, deserves the hostility they receive from the scientific world.  Science is based upon the scientific method.  If an academic cannot support their work within the framework of the scientific method, then they are not really a scientist, and they will be scorned by the scientific community for pretending otherwise.

If, by 'protoscientific' you mean delving into new frontiers of science, as long as they follow the scientific method, they have nothing to fear.  Certainly, their conclusions and methodology will be scrutinized, but that is to be expected of any new research.  One of the primary requirements of the scientific method is repeatability by others.  It is often the lack of repeatability that brings hostility towards fringe researchers, not the topic being researched.

Also, there are plenty of academics that are absolutely worthless.  Just because somebody is teaching, or has a phd, does not mean that they are foolproof, that they are ethical, or that they deserve to be taken at their word without proof.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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InvisibleantiPock
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Seuss]
    #11524701 - 11/25/09 08:01 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

You guys have it wrong, what Steorn was trying to create was actually a perpetual funding machine.

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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: antiPock]
    #11529315 - 11/25/09 10:12 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

antiPock said:
You guys have it wrong, what Steorn was trying to create was actually a perpetual funding machine.




LOL.  And they made a valiant effort at that indeed.

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Offlinesupra
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: ChuangTzu]
    #11538344 - 11/27/09 04:17 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

whatever happened to boodhahoodlum?  He was the one that was always valiantly defending these people, and others doing the same scam.

peace

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OfflineChuangTzu
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: supra]
    #11538604 - 11/27/09 05:05 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

He disappeared when challenged to put his money where his mouth is.  It's a shame too, because I would be $5000 richer right now.

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #11541256 - 11/28/09 05:43 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:

And THAT'S why every crackpot who reads Popular Mechanics and thinks he's a physicist is ridiculed and ignored.




Obviously. My point is that confirmation bias is slowing progress.

"In a standard application of the psychological principle of confirmation bias, scientific research which supports the existing scientific consensus is usually more favorably received than research which contradicts the existing consensus. In some cases, those who question the current paradigm are at times heavily criticized for their assessments. Research which questions a well supported scientific theory is usually more closely scrutinized in order to assess whether it is well researched and carefully documented. This caution and careful scrutiny is used to ensure that science is protected from a premature divergence away from ideas supported by extensive research and toward new ideas which have yet to stand the testing by extensive research. However, this often results in conflict between the supporters of new ideas and supporters of more dominant ideas, both in cases where the new idea is later accepted and in cases where it is later abandoned."

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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Middleman]
    #11542684 - 11/28/09 12:38 PM (14 years, 5 months ago)

LOL!  Its the steorn supporters and other mystics who slow progress with their confirmation bias.  They want to believe the bullshit, so they do - in spite of evidence.  They are true believers.

Real scientists, though not immune to confirmation bias, will accept a revolutionary energy device if there is a working prototype and/or sound theory.  There is neither in this case, yet the true believers still believe.

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