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InvisibleOJK
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7153279 - 07/09/07 08:07 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

:einstein:

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: OJK]
    #7154852 - 07/10/07 01:46 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

That's just it the law's of physic's as they stand are not correct. Look up the unparticle universe on physorg.com Oh and diploid you should look on there aswell they just devised a way to create a teleportation system dealing with entanglement fascinating stuff. I also think Helium-3 will be a great energy source which we will have within 20 years max. But right now we have Mpi and Steorn's technology at are disposal so I suggest you look into the casimir effect just a little more on that site. It's not just a nutjob site it's coming from reputable scientific study's and mention's nothing but pure science conducted by real scientist's. In particular the book I have is extremely informative on the subject just look at it with a open mind Diploid what do you got to lose?


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (07/10/07 01:57 AM)

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OfflineSymmetryGroup8
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7157257 - 07/10/07 05:25 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I dunno man. You talking about the quantum dot thing? That's still quantum teleportation right. You still have to send classical information...

Sorry for any ignorance on my part, I'm not a physist (actually pretty ignorant about physics).


--------------------
Be like water my friend!

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Invisibleadrug

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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7158162 - 07/10/07 09:04 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

buddhahoodlum said:
That's just it the law's of physic's as they stand are not correct. Look up the unparticle universe on physorg.com Oh and diploid you should look on there aswell they just devised a way to create a teleportation system dealing with entanglement fascinating stuff. I also think Helium-3 will be a great energy source which we will have within 20 years max. But right now we have Mpi and Steorn's technology at are disposal so I suggest you look into the casimir effect just a little more on that site. It's not just a nutjob site it's coming from reputable scientific study's and mention's nothing but pure science conducted by real scientist's. In particular the book I have is extremely informative on the subject just look at it with a open mind Diploid what do you got to lose?




First of all, learn how to use punctuation correctly. "Law's of Physic's"?

Secondly, we do NOT have Steorn's technology at our disposal, in fact, they can't even demonstrate it for anyone yet. Due to "heat" or some other ridiculous excuse. You just keep digging yourself deeper and deeper here...

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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7159125 - 07/11/07 01:29 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

http://www.lepp.cornell.edu/spr/1999-02/msg0014964.html

Take a look at this, and the responses to it.

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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Seuss]
    #7159688 - 07/11/07 07:51 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

You sir called it correctly. This is very close to the Minato motor. Or at least the general idea.

http://dispatchesfromthefuture.com/2007/07/first_glimpse_of_an_orbo.html


Amidst all the talk about Steorn's spectacularly failed demonstration, it's easy to overlook the most interesting new bit of information that did come out of all this -- Steorn finally revealed what a working Orbo looks like. It appears that their press package for what they seem to have anticipated would be a successful media event included photos of Sean holding an Orbo device, and the central "rotor" disc does look to be spinning. The photo showed up in several articles during the past week, including coverage by the BBC, here. Below is a closeup of the Orbo:

Whether the Orbo is capable of working as claimed is as yet unknown, but that hasn't stopped people from analyzing how it's put together and how it would work if it could. Steorn forum member Axle posted several images showing an exploded view of the Orbo based on the published photos:



The "stator" is shown in green and blue, and contains a circular arrangement of eight magnets fitted into slots around the periphery of a central cavity. In that cavity spins the "rotor", with four magnets around its circumference. The stator and rotor are connected by two bearings, seen in orange -- the weak links that, according to Sean, put an end to the demo.

Some of this detail is conjecture, given the quality of the photos that the design is drawn from. The design resembles a variation of a classic magnet motor, a recurring motif among attempts to create perpetual motion machines. A magnet motor cannot generate more energy than is put into it because, due to the way magnetic fields work, there will either be a stable state where the rotor is being pushed in one direction just as strongly as it is being pushed in the other direction, or else the operation of the motor will progressively weaken the magnets themselves until the spinning stops. If Orbo does work, then it's doing something very unusual with the configuration of magnets, perhaps (according to Sean) somehow taking advantage of the time variance involved in the effect of magnetic viscosity. (Some members of the Overunity forum are trying to figure out how this might work).

Until (and unless) Steorn reveals just how their Orbo is put together, all we can do is make speculations based on what little we have seen. But if Sean is holding a spinning Orbo device in these published photos, I think we can narrow down the possibilities of what it actually is to these four:

1) A fake -- hidden in there somewhere is a battery, strong enough to keep the device running for a few days (or maybe, as it turned out, just a few hours).

2) A type of "magnet motor" that will spin for a while, during which time the magnets themselves are weakened, eventually stopping the motion. This is in direct contradiction with Steorn's statement that tests showed no weakening of the magnets... but we've seen that Steorn's engineers (like any, to be fair) are not infallible.

3) A very low friction magnet motor that will keep spinning if held and jostled a bit, but that without this small input of energy will eventually slow to a halt. It's possible that such a device could have fooled Steorn into believing they had a perpetual motion machine. This is difficult to reconcile with Sean's claim that a test Orbo has been run continuously for several weeks, however -- unless it was being carefully cradled by a hopeful and deluded energy source for part of that time.

4) It just might, of course, be the real thing.


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #7160930 - 07/11/07 01:43 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Seriously read the book I posted it explain's all of your question's in detail.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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Invisiblesupercollider
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7161364 - 07/11/07 02:46 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quit telling us to read books, when it's obvious you've never read one yourself. If you had, you would know when it is and is not appropriate to use an apostrophe.


--------------------
Supercollider? I just met her!

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: supercollider]
    #7161549 - 07/11/07 03:22 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Actually I did read it but it is to long to reiterate that much info as I've already said. And stop talking about my grammar I really don't care it's a freaken forum.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7161669 - 07/11/07 03:46 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

If any of the reading material you've offered up was anything more than fantasy, we would already have a perpetual motion machine.

That people have been WRITING about this for hundreds of years, but no one has ever actually BUILT such a machine should tell you something. This is no different than people who TALK about their paranormal abilities but never actually DEMONSTRATE them.

Talk is cheap.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7162360 - 07/11/07 06:19 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

buddhahoodlum said:
Seriously read the book I posted it explain's all of your question's in detail.




What questions? I haven't asked anything, I simply relayed information concerning Steorn's Orbo.


--------------------
I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine

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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7162996 - 07/11/07 08:39 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

buddhahoodlum said:
Seriously read the book I posted it explain's all of your question's in detail.


Books generally arnt the best place for new scientific research. Anybody can write a book on anything. There is no independent third party peer review on books. There is no verification at all, save that of the publisher (and the publisher only wants to sell books, not publish factual books).

Even wikipedia has more peer review than books.

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: DieCommie]
    #7164111 - 07/11/07 11:52 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

LOL by all mean's take it with a grain of salt but if you understand science and thermodynamics well enough you'll come to the same conclusion as I did. This technology is real and they have created a way to extrapolate energy from the zero point energy field. Also known as the casimir force.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (07/11/07 11:56 PM)

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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7164455 - 07/12/07 01:16 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

buddhahoodlum said:
LOL by all mean's take it with a grain of salt but if you understand science and thermodynamics well enough you'll come to the same conclusion as I did.


But you dont believe in the laws of thermodynamics right? Because thermodynamics says that what you are saying is B.S. If you could get free energy from the casimir effect, then you could build fantastic heat engines which violate thermodynamic principles. For example, you could use the work from the casimir effect do drive an isolated heat engine who's sole result is the transfer of heat from a colder to hotter body. Or, likewise you could completely transform heat into work. These would obviously be in conflict with the 'accepted' laws of thermodynamics wouldn't they?

So you must agree then, that if what you are saying is true, then the current laws of thermo. are not complete. You cannot argue that thermo. backs up your claim can you?

(Bear in mind how resilient the laws of thermo have been since there inception... They are the only branch of physics (that I know of) that survived both relativity and the quantum revolution completely unscathed. )

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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7164785 - 07/12/07 03:18 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

buddhahoodlum said:
LOL by all mean's take it with a grain of salt but if you understand science and thermodynamics well enough you'll come to the same conclusion as I did. This technology is real and they have created a way to extrapolate energy from the zero point energy field. Also known as the casimir force.




For people with such a solid ability to extract this energy, they sure as hell aren't very good at proving it.

People with successful inventions can show them to others. It's not just bad science to have absolute faith in someone who hasn't provided an ounce of proof, it's outright dumb. If they're onto something so damned solidly feasible, then they'll show it working. Until then, they have nothing but an army of people who follow them because they want to believe and will latch onto any pathetic excuse to give themselves hope.

It's not hard to find a following of people who can be misled into thinking you have somehow risen above the laws of science which have been proven by people with more education and brainpower than 5 people such as yourself... the problem is attempting to prove your bluffs to people who aren't devoid of basic skepticism. Steorn managed the mediocre feat of the former, but the latter has proven unsuccessful... because to achieve the latter you actually have to have done some REAL inventing, rather than touting some snake oil to people who believe you because they don't understand what you're saying... people who believe you just because you have the ability to sound smart.

Hell, even if the damned thing is "working" on some visually appreciable level, what kind of reliable energy source is so fickle that a few hot light bulbs can reduce it to complete inoperability?

Think with your mind, not with your dreams.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Konnrade]
    #7164939 - 07/12/07 06:21 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

> people who believe you just because you have the ability to sound smart

There has to be more to it than that. I'm taking the thread for a bit of a ride here... but, why do people that are uneducated in the fields of science/engineering latch onto these scams with such passion? Since the dawn of science it has been proven, given what we know, that perpetual motion does not (and cannot) exist... and since the dawn of science, thousands upon thousands of people have failed trying to show science wrong... and yet, after all this time, people with no scientific background keep trying and people with no scientific background keep believing. I would honestly be more surprised to find somebody created an over unity device than I would be to see the sun rise in the west and set in the east.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Seuss]
    #7165720 - 07/12/07 11:35 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Obviously the skeptic's out there including some scientist's who still only believe in the standard model need to get a clue and realize that 95% percent of are universe is missing. This is called the unparticle universe and it is theoretical physic's right now. That is why it hasn't been proven yet it's all just theoretical but that doesn't mean it can't be tested. Also that orbo is nothing more than a plastic disc that is designed to show the zero point energy field at work. This isn't just some stupid magnetic motor either they are using a high tech receiver operating at the ZPE field frequency to gather this energy and make it usable. Also you seem to quickly forget the video steorn put out explaining the reason why it failed he said it was the bearing's on the Orbo it had nothing to do with the actual machine. Continue to be disbeliever's it really doesn't matter to me but what do's matter is that this science is made more readily available to the public. When was the last time you guy's were educated extensively on the casimir effect in school?

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (07/12/07 11:59 AM)

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OfflineRuNE
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: Diploid]
    #7165765 - 07/12/07 11:45 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I love these perpetual motion machine threads.

:popcorn:


--------------------
~Happy sailing~

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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7165778 - 07/12/07 11:48 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

buddhahoodlum said:
When was the last time you guy's were educated extensively on the casimir effect in school?




When is the last time you were?


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: Steorn Perpetual Motion Machine Flops [Re: trendal]
    #7165796 - 07/12/07 11:50 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Never now your getting it lol. Except for a brief overview in physic's when I was a senior hardly worth mentioning. If the science isn't even tought in school of course your gonna deam it unreal it's beyond your standard model so to speak. Also I would like you all to answer one question for me where doe's the energy in the casimir force come from?


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla


Edited by buddhahoodlum (07/12/07 12:01 PM)

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