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OfflineTeotzlcoatl
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An Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic Society
    #7130548 - 07/05/07 12:49 AM (13 years, 14 days ago)

OK so i wanna create an Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic self-sufficent Commune Society based around Agriculture and Entheogenic spirituality....Who's in???


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb


Edited by Teotzlcoatl (07/05/07 01:49 PM)


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: An Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic Society [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7130586 - 07/05/07 12:59 AM (13 years, 14 days ago)

Not me, thanks though. I prefer to live in a democratic republic based around science and technology.


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OfflineEconomist
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Re: An Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic Society [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7131866 - 07/05/07 10:08 AM (13 years, 14 days ago)

Can you explain how that could even work?

To be honest I've never understood socialistic anarchism simply because it seems like an oxymoron. How do you ensure equitable distribution of wealth without a government?

Even if you make the generous assumptions that "voluntary associations" will form horizontally across society, what prevents any one of the associations from amassing wealth and power to lord over the others? What keeps the "doctors trade union" from threatening to let people die if they don't recieve 90% of all societal production in exchange?

Even if we add the more generous assumption that everyone's benevolent, randomized uneven distribution of skills will result in some trade unions being far more productive than others and thus becoming wealthier. Without anyone to measure this and redistribute wealth, you still miss the goal of equality.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, I really do just want to understand the principles behind this kind of political argument.


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InvisibleArp
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Re: An Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic Society [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7131877 - 07/05/07 10:10 AM (13 years, 14 days ago)

yeah something like heavens gate but without the cool-aid :thumbup:

lets buy a piece of land in south america and get started :smile:


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: An Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic Society [Re: Economist]
    #7131994 - 07/05/07 10:48 AM (13 years, 14 days ago)

> yeah something like heavens gate but without the cool-aid

Jonestown had the cool-aid... heavens gate had the nike shoes... easy to confuse.

> Can you explain how that could even work?

It wouldn't...


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Re: An Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic Society [Re: Seuss]
    #7132112 - 07/05/07 11:22 AM (13 years, 14 days ago)

Nothing really works anyway.


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: An Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic Society [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7132150 - 07/05/07 11:32 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/21/16 09:06 PM)


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: An Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic Society [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7132157 - 07/05/07 11:34 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Of course it doesn't mean that they didn't exist. It just means the system won't exist again.


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Re: An Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic Society [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7132160 - 07/05/07 11:34 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
such a society can work, & it has for thousands of years.




Which one you talking about there, eh?


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis


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OfflineTeotzlcoatl
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Re: An Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic Society [Re: implicitli]
    #7132165 - 07/05/07 11:35 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

OK well this certainly isn't a cult, and I'm no madman, It's Democratic, Jones town was a dictatorship. Heres how i could perceive it to work- You use direct Democratic processes to disturbe wealth, so it isn't REALLY anarchism, i just call it that because the government has no formal establishment, it is simply run DIRECTLY by the people. In this type of society excess wealth would be viewed as "illegal" or immoral and if it was noted that you were hoarding wealth, the people could step in and through a direct democratic vote decide weather or not to take you wealth. IF they did decide you had to much money, then your wealth could be taken and through, again another direct democratic vote the wealth could be distributed...


P.S.-
This is a VERY hard subject, creating a perfect society is not easy, I do not have all the answer, but i do believe in democracy, if we work together we can come up with the answers!


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb


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OfflineTeotzlcoatl
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Re: An Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic Society [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7132184 - 07/05/07 11:39 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Tassili-n-Ajjer....? Anybody heard of it? Australian Aborigines...?


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: An Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic Society [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7132194 - 07/05/07 11:41 AM (13 years, 13 days ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (11/21/16 09:07 PM)


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OfflineEconomist
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Re: An Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic Society [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7132280 - 07/05/07 12:00 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Indigenous people from around the world, but I had the Americas specifically in mind when I typed it.




Evidence has been found of trade fairs between Native American groups throughout the Americas (the fairs at Taos, Pecos, and Picuris Pueblos come to mind right off the bat).

Why would you engage in trade with other peoples unless you were looking to expand your own material wealth?

None of the tribes were incapable of supporting themselves, so it's not like trade was necessary to get by. (btw, if they WERE incapable of supporting themsevles, that would also be proof that an "anarchist" system of government doesn't work)

I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but evidence of trade seems to prove that materialism was indeed an objective of Native Americans.


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Re: An Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic Society [Re: Economist]
    #7132320 - 07/05/07 12:12 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

There were some tribes who had a reverse materialism deal going on. Each year they would have a giant pot-luck, and the person who gave the most away was the most revered.

It's still about honour.


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OfflineEconomist
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Re: An Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic Society [Re: implicitli]
    #7132396 - 07/05/07 12:33 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

I believe you're describing the Potlatch ceremony among the Pacific Northwest groups.

It is true that the goal of the ceremony was to give away as much as possible, and that the person who gave the most away did become the most revered.

This would be well and good, except that, pre-European arrival, slaves were routinely "given away" at Potlatch ceremonies, and a society that keeps slaves is not actually anarchist-socialist.


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Invisibleimplicitli
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Re: An Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic Society [Re: Economist]
    #7132631 - 07/05/07 01:44 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Oh yeah, I have no doubt that there has never been a truly anarchis-socialist society, there has certainly never been a truly democratic-capitalist society. That's the thing about political theory - it's impossible to turn ideology into practice, we can only strive towards the ideal.


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OfflineTeotzlcoatl
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Re: An Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic Society [Re: implicitli]
    #7132639 - 07/05/07 01:48 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

I don't think theres ever been a just society...I aim to create one. Politics should evolve just as humans do. And yes i do believe self-sufficiency is VERY important for Anarcho-Demo-Socialist.


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"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb


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Invisibleimplicitli
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Re: An Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic Society [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7132709 - 07/05/07 02:07 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

What is your definition of just?


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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: An Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic Society [Re: Teotzlcoatl]
    #7132749 - 07/05/07 02:16 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

Quote:

Teotzlcoatl said:
OK so i wanna create an Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic self-sufficent Commune Society based around Agriculture and Entheogenic spirituality....Who's in???




What do you do about the severe and crippling diarrhea that many people in the third world often get and many die from? How do you keep your hippy friends from shitting in your drinking water? How do you get them to work on the farm 18 hours a day without having an army to force them, like Stalin and Pol Pot?


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OfflineTeotzlcoatl
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Re: An Anarchistic Socialistic Democratic Society [Re: Luddite]
    #7132970 - 07/05/07 02:47 PM (13 years, 13 days ago)

you don't force anyone to do anything....problems and conflict would arise no doubt, but those problems could be fixed through direct democratic processes, by society as a whole, and not a group of rich individuals. If someone was found to be very bad for the community, the individual could be exiled from the commune.


--------------------
"We are the one's we have been waiting for"-Hopi proverb


Edited by Teotzlcoatl (07/05/07 02:48 PM)


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