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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics > The Psychedelic Experience
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Re: DMT extraction question URGENT [Re: Koala Koolio]
    #7093590 -

Ahh, Acyl. I suggest you read/research around before making those comments. The DMT contained in the dried root bark is in the form of a salt which cannot be absorbed by the solvent until a base is added with water to the powder which releases it for absorption by solvent.

Starting with an acid solution or starting with a base solution makes almost no difference, unless you plan to defat. The acid will still pull out plant gunk along with DMT, no matter whether your acidifying or basifying.

If there is no logic in basifiny the bark, then what logic is there in basifying an acidic solution further than a pH of 6 or 7?

I find that hilarious that you posted up QT's extraction Tek. That is SO outdated, the modern teks going around now have been developed from that tek, and improved greatly. The yeilds from the modern teks are much, much higher than QT's. QT calls for all these uneccesary steps, which in essence destroy alot of the DMT. You won't get anything but fatty goo if you plan on following QT's tek.

There are people out there that have been extracting DMT for decade's, and slowly been improving the tek's to increase yeild AND make them easier. Skipping the acid step and basifying straight away is proven to increase yeild. For those who acidify, basifying the end product to 13-14 is proven to increase yeild.

Acyl, if you actually have any experience with extracting DMT, I might look into what you're saying, but it sounds like you're just pulling out information from a highschool chemistry text book which has no relevance to extracting DMT from bark.

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Re: DMT extraction question URGENT [Re: retrospect]
    #7094060 -

My buddies bowl isnt seperation the goop from the naphtha at ALL.

Should I tell him to add more Naphtha or what?


--------------------
Take off my mask and leave the lies to the liars.

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Re: DMT extraction question URGENT [Re: Chazzersize]
    #7094188 -

Its been about two hours since he added 300 ml to the mix. Still nothing.

If anyone could help ease his mind and tell me what he did wrong, that would REALLY help me right now.


--------------------
Take off my mask and leave the lies to the liars.

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Re: DMT extraction question URGENT [Re: Chazzersize]
    #7094245 -

So are you saying you have a slurry of water+ lye + MHRB.
And you have added some naphtha to get the DMT out of there.
Now you have a thick emulsion in the naphtha / slurry that won't separate into fractions / layers.
Is this right.?

What was the PH when you put the naphtha in ?

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Re: DMT extraction question URGENT [Re: UnderNose]
    #7094252 -

You are correct.

I didnt measure my ph levels. I just went by what the tek instructed me to do.


Do you think there is not enough lye? Or maybe something else?


--------------------
Take off my mask and leave the lies to the liars.

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Re: DMT extraction question URGENT [Re: Chazzersize]
    #7094281 -

You must check & re-check the Ph.

As the water absorbs things from the plant material & they react with the lye the PH level will drop.
With a low PH it is easy to get these emulsions when shaking up the naphtha, also you might not convert all actives into freebase.
IF your PH was at 12.5 you could have shaken it as much as you wanted and there would have been no sticky icky stuff.

My suggestions.
1.Slowly sprinkling table salt evenly over the solution will break up the emulsions as it contacts them.
Try this with a pinch and you will see it dissolve a little bit.
Do it bit by bit. give the naphtha layer a little stir every now & then
Don't use to much.

2.mix up a mega potent batch of lye water. carefully....
Put drops in slowly & stir solution
You need a high PH for the DMT to convert to freebase form and be collected by the naphtha.
You may also need more to react with the rest of the DMT in the MHRB

3.After you have gotten the first batch of naphtha off, test the PH and make sure it's at 12.5 for the next pull

Edited by UnderNose (06/26/07 10:46 AM)

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Re: DMT extraction question URGENT [Re: Chazzersize]
    #7094297 -

I can't help but i just read that warm naptha will extract much better than cool naptha. Maybe you just need to wait longer if its cold


--------------------
:igor: RIP :igor:

Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
:pinkshroom: :supershroom: :mushroom2: :shroomer: :mushroom2: :supershroom: :pinkshroom:

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Re: DMT extraction question URGENT [Re: Chazzersize]
    #7094311 -

The vessel containing your solution should have been put into a warm water bath as part of the extraction.

It's true warm naphtha extracts better, holds more when warm and less when cold, this is part of the theory behind recrystallization.
But in this case there should have been fractions seen by now anyway.
Sometimes patience is needed but when done correctly the process is fast.

P.S.
Shrimp on the barbie.
Dingo ate my baby
:smile:


--------------------

Edited by UnderNose (06/26/07 10:57 AM)

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Re: DMT extraction question URGENT [Re: UnderNose]
    #7094349 -

Thanks for the help guys. I wish you were online a few hours ago :wink:

I added a few more tablespoons of lye (I think my spoons are a little undersized) and I also added 400ml of naphtha again.

There wasnt even a layer at all, so I figured extra solvent couldnt hurt.

I'll have a cigarette and I'll will be back in about five minutes to check on it.

To get the best results, how long should I let it sit for?


--------------------
Take off my mask and leave the lies to the liars.

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Re: DMT extraction question URGENT [Re: Chazzersize]
    #7094374 -

Thats OK:thumbup:

Nah a little extra naphtha won't "hurt" but it wont really help the emulsions

How did you add the lye?
You are going to have to mix the solution a little bit.

And did you try some salt?

Let it sit until there is as close to two layers as you can get.
Then remove naphtha.


--------------------

Edited by UnderNose (06/26/07 11:14 AM)

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Re: DMT extraction question URGENT [Re: UnderNose]
    #7094383 -

Thank you thank you.

Im also in a very cool room right now. Would it help if I let it set in the sun light for a ten minute or so to heat up a tad? This stuff is thicker than motor oil right now.


Thank you again :hippie:


--------------------
Take off my mask and leave the lies to the liars.

Edited by Chazzersize (06/26/07 11:21 AM)

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Re: DMT extraction question URGENT [Re: retrospect]
    #7094427 -

I just searched on the rootbark.

I cant find any reliable sources, but some forums claim that it is in its salted form already. http://www.thenook.org/archives/tek/yoda_dmt.shtml

However, there are plenty that go on the fact that it is in its righteous freebase alkaloid form.(http://www.thenook.org/archives/30.html) From the same website!?



So you can see why this isnt just some "stupid highschool textbook" mistake.


Well I did some searching and found this..

http://pubs.acs.org.ezproxy.lib.ucalgary.ca/cgi-bin/archive.cgi/joceah/1959/24/i09/pdf/jo01091a032.pdf

Quote:
N,N-Dimethyl-5-methoxytryptaminfer om Dictyoloma incanescens.
A 900-g. sample of the ground bark of Dictyoloma
incanescenss was extracted for 8 hr. with 3 1. of boiling petroleum
ether (b.p. 30-60") and filtered. The petroleum
ether extract was nonalkaloidal and was discarded. The
residual bark was then heated under reflux with stirring for
3 hr. with 2 1. of ethanol containing 10% aqueous ammonia.
The process was repeated twice with fresh solvent, the
periods of extraction being extended to 8 hr.





As you can see, university researchers happened to make the same dumb highschool mistake. They thought that the rootbark contained freebase alkaloids also... hmm..!

You are right, but this is not the stupid mistake youve made it out to be.


--------------------
:scrambled:

1 ,2

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Re: DMT extraction question URGENT [Re: Chazzersize]
    #7094502 -

:wtf:

Anyway.

UnderNose said:
The vessel containing your solution should have been put into a warm water bath as part of the extraction.

It's true warm naphtha extracts better, holds more when warm and less when cold, this is part of the theory behind recrystallization.



What kind of container do you have the solution in.?
Put a lid on it and put it into a warm water bath.


--------------------

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Re: DMT extraction question URGENT [Re: UnderNose]
    #7094517 -

It's in a 4 liter glass bowl.

I put it in hot/warm water and topped it with foil. Lets see if this works.

::crosses fingers::


--------------------
Take off my mask and leave the lies to the liars.

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Re: DMT extraction question URGENT [Re: Chazzersize]
    #7094571 -

You could put in more lye and give a little stir maybe,
As the PH level gets higher you need larger amounts of lye to get the PH to move higher & higher.
Don't be shy..
are you able to test PH at all.?

Or try the salt thing I said before.

I can't help anymore because it's 4am here...time for sleep:boring:

Peace:grin:

Undernose


--------------------

Edited by UnderNose (06/26/07 12:16 PM)

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Re: DMT extraction question URGENT [Re: UnderNose]
    #7094828 -

Well, the naphtha is slowly starting to rise after I realized that constantly stirring up was fucking up the process.

Im giving it an hour before I evaporate it. What do you guys think?

How thick should the layer be as well if one used a pound of root bark powder?


--------------------
Take off my mask and leave the lies to the liars.

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Re: DMT extraction question URGENT [Re: Chazzersize]
    #7095031 -

Just a little update, I know some of you might hate seeing me post so often...I apologize.

There is a little layer FINALLY forming and im going to leave it alone for now.

Naphtha will rise on its own, correct?


--------------------
Take off my mask and leave the lies to the liars.

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Re: DMT extraction question URGENT [Re: Chazzersize]
    #7095450 -

KEEP ADDING LYE TILL THE LAYERS SEPARATE!!! The reason they are not separating is because the pH is too low! It'd be great if you could check the pH, if not, add one tablespoon to the mixture, let it sit for 10 minutes, come back, if layers haven't separated, add another tablespoon, sit for 10 mins so on and so on till layers separate. The mixture needs to be at a pH of 13-14 and the layers can be sliced like cheese. When you pull the naptha out make sure the solution is warm, but no matter how cold or warm the solution is, the majority of the naptha should have separated within 10 minutes if the pH is right.

Acyl said:
I just searched on the rootbark.

I cant find any reliable sources, but some forums claim that it is in its salted form already. http://www.thenook.org/archives/tek/yoda_dmt.shtml

However, there are plenty that go on the fact that it is in its righteous freebase alkaloid form.(http://www.thenook.org/archives/30.html) From the same website!?



So you can see why this isnt just some "stupid highschool textbook" mistake.


Well I did some searching and found this..

http://pubs.acs.org.ezproxy.lib.ucalgary.ca/cgi-bin/archive.cgi/joceah/1959/24/i09/pdf/jo01091a032.pdf

Quote:
N,N-Dimethyl-5-methoxytryptaminfer om Dictyoloma incanescens.
A 900-g. sample of the ground bark of Dictyoloma
incanescenss was extracted for 8 hr. with 3 1. of boiling petroleum
ether (b.p. 30-60") and filtered. The petroleum
ether extract was nonalkaloidal and was discarded. The
residual bark was then heated under reflux with stirring for
3 hr. with 2 1. of ethanol containing 10% aqueous ammonia.
The process was repeated twice with fresh solvent, the
periods of extraction being extended to 8 hr.





As you can see, university researchers happened to make the same dumb highschool mistake. They thought that the rootbark contained freebase alkaloids also... hmm..!

You are right, but this is not the stupid mistake youve made it out to be.


Thank God, you actually did some research. I was not talking about the salts/alkaloids in the bark coming from a highschool textbook, nor did I ever call it a 'stupid mistake'. I was talking about the way you were saying, basifiying it would do nothing, and then going off on some nitrogen/molecule rant.

It is proven the DMT is in salt form in the bark, as people defat the bark powder with solvent before adding it to basified water. If it was in alkaloid form it would all come out in the solvent.

Edited by retrospect (06/26/07 04:01 PM)

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Re: DMT extraction question URGENT [Re: retrospect]
    #7095490 -

Yeah, I appologize.

I never usually spew facts like that without knowing for sure.. I just assumed that the alkaloids were in their usual form like they are in the grass. Bad assumption. :shrug:

Chazzersize:

Glad the naphtha started to separate, hope it works out for the best.



To everyone else... this solution seems like it could have been solved by heating the mixture a bit to ensure total extraction of the alkaloids then filtering the naphtha/lye/bark solution to remove the bark gunk. The good shit will be in solution and the bark wont be there to prevent the naphtha/water layers from separating.. Theres no use for the bark after the alkaloids have been pulled.. so this seems like a very reasonable thing to do..

What do you guys think?


--------------------
:scrambled:

1 ,2

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Re: DMT extraction question URGENT [Re: Chazzersize]
    #7098124 -

THANK you for all the generous help guys.

It turns out my problem was that I the ph STILL wasnt high enough after 300 grams of lye. I had to put in around 500 total...then seperate the mix into two smaller bowls and I worked from there.

I cant even begin to tell you all the things I saw and felt.

:hippie:

Im a believer.


PS Now that I got the to experience it first hand, the next batch will probably be the CFC method. Wish us luck :smile:

Again, thank you.


--------------------
Take off my mask and leave the lies to the liars.

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