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linkdead13
Stranger
Registered: 06/16/07
Posts: 2
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
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Alcohol Extraction of Amanita Muscaria poss?
#7053141 - 06/16/07 03:17 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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I was just wondering if the alcohol extraction of psilocybins would work on Amanita considering the Muscimol is more soluble in water?
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Entersandman
Wings of Tomorrow


Registered: 06/19/06
Posts: 618
Loc: behind the border
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Re: Alcohol Extraction of Amanita Muscaria poss? [Re: linkdead13]
#7053250 - 06/16/07 03:57 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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of course it would work...
think of the Siberian people who put amanitas in alc and let them rest some days up to some weeks to become intoxicated after ingestion.
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linkdead13
Stranger
Registered: 06/16/07
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Re: Alcohol Extraction of Amanita Muscaria poss? [Re: Entersandman]
#7053276 - 06/16/07 04:05 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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Would it lose potency?
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figgusfiddus
Arrogant Worm


Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 2,126
Loc: Figgus, Fiddia
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: Alcohol Extraction of Amanita Muscaria poss? [Re: linkdead13]
#7053508 - 06/16/07 05:15 PM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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Uh. Alcohol extraction will give you baddies as well as goodies.
Ibotenic acid is soluble in methanol, so I assume it's also soluble in ethyl/drinking alcohol.
Supposedly the best method of preparation involves boiling the muscaria in salted water, then consuming. This is supposed to break down most of the ibotenic (the stuff that gives you the cramps and shits and such) while leaving most of the muscimol. I don't know if that's true, and have never tried fly agaric, so don't take my word for it.
And, yes, any extraction will result in some potency loss. Use your head--do you expect that 100% of the actives will be extracted? None of us can say for sure how much, I expect, unless you get lucky and find someone who's tried to do it for some reason or another.
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Entersandman
Wings of Tomorrow


Registered: 06/19/06
Posts: 618
Loc: behind the border
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Re: Alcohol Extraction of Amanita Muscaria poss? [Re: figgusfiddus]
#7055653 - 06/17/07 03:32 AM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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the best way you can do is:
1)dry the amanitas (air-dried) or in the oven-that would destroy the nasty ibotenic acid... 2)grind the mushrooms after the amanitas become dried as bones... 3)put the grinded material in Alc (Vodka,Everclear,whatever...) 4)let the whole stuff rest for at least 1 month 5)filter the liquid after the resting time 6)try very small amounts to prove its potency 7)have fun!
i will try this method in some weeks-first i need to find some amanitas
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figgusfiddus
Arrogant Worm


Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 2,126
Loc: Figgus, Fiddia
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Re: Alcohol Extraction of Amanita Muscaria poss? [Re: Entersandman]
#7055778 - 06/17/07 05:14 AM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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A month? Jesus. That sounds like one of those special "pulled out of my ass" teks.
Don't ever try a tek someone suggests without having tried and vouched for themselves. You'd might as well make your own tek.
Warning: Half the time, users will lie about this.
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coopypants
Stranger


Registered: 12/27/05
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Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
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Re: Alcohol Extraction of Amanita Muscaria poss? [Re: figgusfiddus]
#7055817 - 06/17/07 05:43 AM (16 years, 8 months ago) |
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alcohol extractions are usually best when left to sit over time, unless heat is used.
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Ogla


Registered: 02/16/04 
Posts: 11,320
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Re: Alcohol Extraction of Amanita Muscaria poss? [Re: coopypants]
#7056368 - 06/17/07 10:21 AM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Question. alcohol evaporates right? well duh. After soaking shrooms in everclear or whatever, can you let it dry till there is psilocybin powder left over or something?
Also, since psilocybin can be extracted with ethanol, that means it is a polar alkaloid?
Edited by Ogla (06/17/07 10:24 AM)
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Tamadragon
Stranger



Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 382
Loc: CAN
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: Alcohol Extraction of Amanita Muscaria poss? *DELETED* [Re: Ogla]
#7057027 - 06/17/07 01:34 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Post deleted by TamadragonReason for deletion: ===
-------------------- ~Tama Peace I get real lonely
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figgusfiddus
Arrogant Worm


Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 2,126
Loc: Figgus, Fiddia
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: Alcohol Extraction of Amanita Muscaria poss? [Re: Tamadragon]
#7057089 - 06/17/07 01:46 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah, the local mystic would eat the shroom, get sick and trip... then he'd pee and give it to people, which would only contain the "happy" agonist, muscimol, while his body metabolized the ibotenic, that being the "sad" agonist.
I'd be interested to try a little fly agaric sometime, but when I do I am not going to start concentrating it and fucking with the doses. I want to know what the hell I'm taking. I don't think muscimol extraction is a terribly bright idea.
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Civ
Pinning



Registered: 10/14/04
Posts: 2,537
Loc: California
Last seen: 7 months, 5 days
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Re: Alcohol Extraction of Amanita Muscaria poss? [Re: figgusfiddus]
#7057581 - 06/17/07 03:46 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
eah, the local mystic would eat the shroom, get sick and trip
That isn't how they did things... close... they would actually pee and let it turn into ice, then examine the ice and only "dose" the most pure specimines. It was also 99% f So much more involved. Even if you extract the baddies, ONLY picking the muscari with _7_ dots.
you still have an extract and not 30g dry of some funk to chunk down. extracts are always great.
-------------------- "...Gal's seem to hate the thought of blending chicken shit in a blender. So, wash it well afterwards & DON'T tell them..." -Agar
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Tamadragon
Stranger



Registered: 02/29/04
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Re: Alcohol Extraction of Amanita Muscaria poss? *DELETED* [Re: Civ]
#7060542 - 06/18/07 08:24 AM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Post deleted by TamadragonReason for deletion: ====
-------------------- ~Tama Peace I get real lonely
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figgusfiddus
Arrogant Worm


Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 2,126
Loc: Figgus, Fiddia
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: Alcohol Extraction of Amanita Muscaria poss? [Re: Tamadragon]
#7062171 - 06/18/07 03:48 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Fly agaric is really easy to ID. Sources shouldn't be a problem. The problem is that it's not a happy-fun-time mushroom like cubensis... it's a complicated-apeshit-fucking-crazy-time mushroom.
No personal experience, just from all I've read.
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slackophage
Misanthropist



Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 1,112
Loc: Seattleish
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Re: Alcohol Extraction of Amanita Muscaria poss? [Re: figgusfiddus]
#7062204 - 06/18/07 03:57 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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I like them, the initial intoxication is like being drunk, but you're more in control of your facilities. Then you usually pass out for a few hours and wake up feeling reborn, still high for hours. They're quite pleasant IME, but I haven't dosed much over 7g dry at once (I'm about 110lbs with a fast metabolism, never takes me much).
Alcohol extraction never crossed my mind (probably because I'm a recovering alcoholic), they always wound up in meals and have a pretty good taste to them.
7 dots though? That part sounds like mystic BS....
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figgusfiddus
Arrogant Worm


Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 2,126
Loc: Figgus, Fiddia
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: Alcohol Extraction of Amanita Muscaria poss? [Re: slackophage]
#7062243 - 06/18/07 04:09 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yeah, definitely. The dots are not likely to be genetically determined, so they wouldn't be some kind of characteristic marker.
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slackophage
Misanthropist



Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 1,112
Loc: Seattleish
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Re: Alcohol Extraction of Amanita Muscaria poss? [Re: figgusfiddus]
#7062267 - 06/18/07 04:20 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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The dots are just parts of the broken veil. They brush right off with little effort or after a good rain.
The one in the middle here got rained on before I got to it.

And here's what the dehydrator looked like last year:

Got me through the winter, great for seasonal depression.
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figgusfiddus
Arrogant Worm


Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 2,126
Loc: Figgus, Fiddia
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: Alcohol Extraction of Amanita Muscaria poss? [Re: slackophage]
#7062287 - 06/18/07 04:28 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Wow, they're gorgeous. Impossible to cultivate, right? Or nearly so, due to symbiosis, I mean.
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slackophage
Misanthropist



Registered: 11/16/06
Posts: 1,112
Loc: Seattleish
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Re: Alcohol Extraction of Amanita Muscaria poss? [Re: figgusfiddus]
#7062299 - 06/18/07 04:32 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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I've read the mycellium can be cultivated, but because of the mycorhizzial (sp?) association with host trees, they will not fruit.
Towards the end of the season, I started removing the stems and cutting them into chunks while I picked them, saving only the caps. The stem chunks were buried under the kinds of trees I'd seem them fruit under in hopes of new growth, we'll see how well that worked over the next few years.
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Tamadragon
Stranger



Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 382
Loc: CAN
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Re: Alcohol Extraction of Amanita Muscaria poss? *DELETED* [Re: figgusfiddus]
#7067047 - 06/19/07 07:13 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Post deleted by TamadragonReason for deletion: ===
-------------------- ~Tama Peace I get real lonely
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fastfred
Old Hand



Registered: 05/17/04
Posts: 6,899
Loc: Dark side of the moon
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Re: Alcohol Extraction of Amanita Muscaria poss? [Re: Tamadragon]
#7070642 - 06/20/07 04:33 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Solubility
Muscimol (water, slight ethanol) Its salt nature renders it very soluble in water but only sparingly soluble in organic solvents, i.e. alcohol.
Muscimol hydrobromide ethanol: 1 mg/mL methanol: 10 mg/mL H2O: 19 mg/mL
Ibotenic acid (soluble methanol) Water: to 10 mM H2O: 1 mg/mL with sonication 0.1 M NaOH: 10.7 mg/mL 0.1 M HCl: 4.7 mg/mL
As far as decarboxylating ibotenic acid to muscimol... You supposedly need 100C and pH extremes to get a good yield.
Some papers have shown that adding DMSO and using D2O or 3H2O instead of water will give ~95% yields at normal temps. You could also try copper salts as a catalyst.
Both compounds are more soluble in water than alcohol. So unless you're trying to avoid extracting some substance and you think it's not soluble in alcohol I wouldn't use alcohol extraction.
-FF
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