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Invisibledaytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
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Re: The Ancients [Re: shakercee]
    #7085965 - 06/24/07 02:47 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

shakercee said:
May be history is all sexed up rumors.




For sure.

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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods


Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: The Ancients [Re: daytripper23]
    #7086609 - 06/24/07 09:56 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

im on of the people that dont use super sexed up story and just say it straight. and encourage others to keep it that way.


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"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: The Ancients [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7089568 - 06/25/07 02:06 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

"The Ancients" were here between 50,000 and 10,500 BC, long before our ancestors.

Their cities were destroyed by earthquakes and floods in the same event that killed off the Woolly Mammoths.
That is why there is a pyramid twice the size of Kufu's on the floor of the Pacific Ocean between SF and Hawaii.

That is why the same Flood Mythos appears in nearly every culture on Earth,
supposedly there are even more ancient "Ancients" than them...

Their technology was completely organic and crystalline, that's why there are no metal artifacts.

There were survivors that tried to pass on the knowledge but it was lost (suppressed).

Many of the destroyed cities had temples rebuilt on them like Tiahuanaco, Giza, and Angkor Wat.

That is why Sumeria and Egypt started off at their height and then slowly disintegrated.
That is why the Sphinx has 10,000 year old water weathering, and a head too small for it's body.

Artifacts

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Invisiblethedudenj
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Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: The Ancients [Re: Middleman]
    #7090972 - 06/25/07 01:53 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

word man glad someone knows about that


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"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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Offlinemikebart101
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Re: The Ancients [Re: thedudenj]
    #7091133 - 06/25/07 02:45 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

That is what I'm talking about. Those artifacts really make you wonder how much we still don't know about our own history. I'm positive that most of the larger, revealing artifacts about human origin are locked away and hidden from the public. Imagine what 2 billion year old artifacts would do to religion? Holy crap.

I've always wondered why ancient civilizations seemed much more spiritual and enlightened when compared to people today.

Take the Egyptians for example. They practically had a God for everything, which I feel is a very spiritual take on reality. If we all contribute to this "dream' world then it would make sense that certain beings control the stars, death, birth, etc. I always get the chills when I think about ancient civilization.


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So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.

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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: The Ancients [Re: thedudenj]
    #7093162 - 06/26/07 12:13 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
"The Ancients" were here between 50,000 and 10,500 BC, long before our ancestors.

Their cities were destroyed by earthquakes and floods in the same event that killed off the Woolly Mammoths.
That is why there is a pyramid twice the size of Kufu's on the floor of the Pacific Ocean between SF and Hawaii.

That is why the same Flood Mythos appears in nearly every culture on Earth,
supposedly there are even more ancient "Ancients" than them...

Their technology was completely organic and crystalline, that's why there are no metal artifacts.

There were survivors that tried to pass on the knowledge but it was lost (suppressed).

Many of the destroyed cities had temples rebuilt on them like Tiahuanaco, Giza, and Angkor Wat.

That is why Sumeria and Egypt started off at their height and then slowly disintegrated.
That is why the Sphinx has 10,000 year old water weathering, and a head too small for it's body.

Artifacts




Quote:

thedudenj said:
word man glad someone knows about that




Gullability loves company, I guess. Congrats for being retards together.

Yes, I don't care if he's a mod. Spade's a spade, and I plan to call it as such.

Anyway, if we're going to flood a potentially rational and intelligent thread with absolute bullshit, could we at least move it to MRP so that it might find itself in good company?

Or perhaps we could all just nail our junk to a board and wear tin-foil hats from here on out?


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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: The Ancients [Re: mikebart101]
    #7093239 - 06/26/07 12:26 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mikebart101 said:
I'm positive that most of the larger, revealing artifacts about human origin are locked away and hidden from the public.




The conspiracy is everywhere.

HEY, WATCH IT! I think I saw a time-travelling Freemason dressed as Mr. Gray behind you. Or was it Abe Lincoln's home-built android? No, over there! No, you missed it. Too slow!

I've always held speculative, or science, fiction in the highest regard, even when it serves only the purpose of entertainment. Nonetheless, I feel that it has done a great disservice to the mentally incapable of the world by miseducating them, even as it entertains. Congratulations--you have left objective reality. You have entered the realm of "confused by-product of civilization". Enjoy your stay.


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Offlinemikebart101
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Re: The Ancients [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7093687 - 06/26/07 04:28 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

figgusfiddus said:

I've always held speculative, or science, fiction in the highest regard, even when it serves only the purpose of entertainment. Nonetheless, I feel that it has done a great disservice to the mentally incapable of the world by miseducating them, even as it entertains. Congratulations--you have left objective reality. You have entered the realm of "confused by-product of civilization". Enjoy your stay.




Are you christian or a fan of the other modern day religions? Be honest.


--------------------
So we finish the eighteenth and he's gonna stiff me. And I say, "Hey, Lama, hey, how about a little something, you know, for the effort, you know." And he says, "Oh, uh, there won't be any money, but when you die, on your deathbed, you will receive total consciousness." So I got that goin' for me, which is nice.

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Invisiblethedudenj
Man of the Woods


Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
Re: The Ancients [Re: mikebart101]
    #7093695 - 06/26/07 04:37 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

geez it was anikan skywalker that built a android...


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: The Ancients [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7094204 - 06/26/07 10:08 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Today I stumbled across a very interesting read that pertains to our earlier argument:

Quote:

In my utter impotence to test the authenticity of my report of my senses, to know whether the impressions they make on me correspond with outlying objects, what difference does it make, whether Orion is up there in heaven, or some god paints the image in the firmament of the soul? The relations of parts and the end of the whole remaining the same, what is the difference, whether land and sea interact, and worlds revolve and intermingle without number or end,- deep yawning under deep, and galaxy balancing galaxy, throughout absolute space,-or, whether, without relations of time and space, the same appearances are inscribed in the constant faith of man?




-Ralph Waldo Emerson

Quote:

figgusfiddus said:
It seems to be your thesis that the complexity of an individual's perceived world is proportional to his wisdom. I would suggest that an ancient individual's world was in fact much simpler, and as such, he would be considered less wise by that guideline.




What is the difference between knowledge and wisdom? When weighed against an infinite reality, quantifiable knowledge is meaningless. I interpret wisdom is holistic understanding, not quantifiable understanding.

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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: The Ancients [Re: mikebart101]
    #7094788 - 06/26/07 01:14 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mikebart101 said:
Are you christian or a fan of the other modern day religions? Be honest.




I am a "fan" of my mind and my senses, my ability to reason, and my ability to recognize what may not be assumed or known without just cause. I am a "fan" of the notion that any fallacious but assumed truth, no matter how fascinating, comforting, or appealing, is unlikely and may be regarded as untrue when there is no solid evidence in all the world to support it. If you do not see that this would lead me neither to Christianity nor any other "modern day religion", I doubt we are communicating.

I don't see why my honesty on that matter should be in question.


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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: The Ancients [Re: daytripper23]
    #7094853 - 06/26/07 01:28 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Today I stumbled across a very interesting read that pertains to our earlier argument:

Quote:

In my utter impotence to test the authenticity of my report of my senses, to know whether the impressions they make on me correspond with outlying objects, what difference does it make, whether Orion is up there in heaven, or some god paints the image in the firmament of the soul? The relations of parts and the end of the whole remaining the same, what is the difference, whether land and sea interact, and worlds revolve and intermingle without number or end,- deep yawning under deep, and galaxy balancing galaxy, throughout absolute space,-or, whether, without relations of time and space, the same appearances are inscribed in the constant faith of man?




-Ralph Waldo Emerson

Quote:

figgusfiddus said:
It seems to be your thesis that the complexity of an individual's perceived world is proportional to his wisdom. I would suggest that an ancient individual's world was in fact much simpler, and as such, he would be considered less wise by that guideline.




What is the difference between knowledge and wisdom? When weighed against an infinite reality, quantifiable knowledge is meaningless. I interpret wisdom is holistic understanding, not quantifiable understanding.




Meaning is attributed, not innate. The vastness of the universe does nothing to diminish the wisdom of an individual human. The term "holistic" is abused so thoroughly now that I question whether anyone using it--not just you, mind, this isn't a barb--really examines it. Something which is holistic is not necessarily unquantifiable, it is not ethereal, it is not magical. It's just a scientifically valid term which has been associated with those things by the post-hippie new agers, in their attempts to credit their alchemical pseudoscience with a fancy-schmancy adjective.

"Holistic" wisdom or intelligence, to me, indicates an understanding of one's surroundings that is well-rounded, and which--by my subjective judgment--would indeed involve some philosophical consideration of the world's "true" nature. Of course, none of us really know what that might be, do we? And wisdom, like concrete information, is only there if it is indeed correct. Nonetheless, I guess true wisdom resonates in such a way that we simply know it to be correct, even when we can't always pinpoint the reasons this is so. I think this is the source of the quasi-mystical connotation surrounding the word "holistic" when it is used in this sense.

My original point, though, is that there is no reason to believe that ancient man had more wisdom--holistic or otherwise--than does the modern man. His world was simpler, in most senses, involved fewer years of life and generally, less action. It was a world of mystery and mysticism, where true knowledge, guesses, and superstitious fears were intertwined to form what people now would call the "wisdom" of that age. There is nothing wise about knowing something for sure which is truly incorrect--it simply makes one seem wise, to those who do not know it to be incorrect. As such, the holy man of 5000BC who knew for sure that the sky was made of mystic apple juice, and was well respected for knowing this, was not wise at all, but simply an interesting and truly creative fool.

Now, I will not pretend that modern man (and modern woman, since modern man is more egalitarian) does not have its various incorrect assumptions, its superstitions, and its blissful ignorances. But, it knows, in general, more, whether about practical matters, matters of the mind and self-improvement, or matters of little or no consequence, but which help it to produce a more complete "holistic" image of the world as we know it.

For each of the criticisms that rightly apply to modern man, there are ten which rightly apply to ancient or prehistoric man--we simply overlook them, because we consider them to come "in the package" of "prehistoric". E.g., "Well, no kidding he couldn't read or write, he's from 10,000BC." Well, yes, that's true, but don't you still have to take into account the fact that his communication with others--and his ability to learn about his surroundings--is limited, as a result? The same could be said of fire, stone and metal tools, the wheel, et cetera. Progress is real, even when it is neglected in favor of the mystery of ancient times.


Meanwhile, Emerson's quote is an interesting, but simplistic take on pragmatism. Knowledge which has no obvious use in the immediate has the potential for use later, when our circumstances change--this is the purpose of learning. As such, it is rather good for us to know that the night's sky is an image generated not by God doing his Bob Ross impression, but by the vast multitude of stars that exist in the distances. Practical knowledge has arisen from that realization, and it has served us in ways that Copernicus and Galileo would not have expected.


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Edited by figgusfiddus (06/26/07 01:39 PM)

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OfflineArchemetis
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Re: The Ancients [Re: Diploid]
    #7094986 - 06/26/07 02:04 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
More bullshit. The Dogon believed until recently that Sirius is a binary star, not a triple star. This is what they told anthropologists in the 30s. Now that science knows it to likely be a triple star, they've changed the song and call it a triple star.




not that i really care about this argument, but their legends did say sirius had 3 stars. look at Griaule and Dieterlen's documents if you like. robert temple's book "a siruis mystery" was written before 95 and also talked about there being a third star.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Ancients [Re: Archemetis]
    #7095010 - 06/26/07 02:10 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

not that i really care about this argument




Translation: I care enough to attempt to present 'evidence' for my world view. When facts counter that world view, I will claim apathy.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Ancients [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7095023 - 06/26/07 02:12 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

I am a "fan" of my mind and my senses, my ability to reason, and my ability to recognize what may not be assumed or known without just cause. I am a "fan" of the notion that any fallacious but assumed truth, no matter how fascinating, comforting, or appealing, is unlikely and may be regarded as untrue when there is no solid evidence in all the world to support it.




:thumbup:  I approve.

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: The Ancients [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7095566 - 06/26/07 04:21 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Well now I can see we clearly see things differently.


Quote:

Meaning is attributed, not innate. The vastness of the universe does nothing to diminish the wisdom of an individual human. The term "holistic" is abused so thoroughly now that I question whether anyone using it--not just you, mind, this isn't a barb--really examines it. Something which is holistic is not necessarily unquantifiable, it is not ethereal, it is not magical. It's just a scientifically valid term which has been associated with those things by the post-hippie new agers, in their attempts to credit their alchemical pseudoscience with a fancy-schmancy adjective.




I particularly used holistic understanding as a definition of wisdom. In my understanding, reality is infinite, and that does give holism, and thus wisdom a mystical attribute to me. I think its also important to note that this is more of an attempt to understand something I perceive as mystical, than to be logically confounded and then realize it must be mystical. Its kind of just the best way I can logically define something I find mystical.

Quote:

"Holistic" wisdom or intelligence, to me, indicates an understanding of one's surroundings that is well-rounded, and which--by my subjective judgment--would indeed involve some philosophical consideration of the world's "true" nature. Of course, none of us really know what that might be, do we?




I don't know if you just threw in the "or intelligence" but that kind of steamrolls my whole idea. A difference between intelligence and wisdom is central to my thesis: heres another example: intelligence and knowledge is quantifiable- IQ testing for the former and Sat's and other normal tests of knowledge. A measurement of achieved knowledge, and processing power of the brain. Sure IQ testing is not a perfect test of intelligence, but after all intelligence is just a word, and this is just a theoretical dichotomy of a concept. In reality they are impossible to separate I think.

Quote:

And wisdom, like concrete information, is only there if it is indeed correct. Nonetheless, I guess true wisdom resonates in such a way that we simply know it to be correct, even when we can't always pinpoint the reasons this is so. I think this is the source of the quasi-mystical connotation surrounding the word "holistic" when it is used in this sense.




Correctness doesn't apply to wisdom in my understanding of it...

Quote:

My original point, though, is that there is no reason to believe that ancient man had more wisdom--holistic or otherwise--than does the modern man. His world was simpler, in most senses, involved fewer years of life and generally, less action.




Again, I understand wisdom to be holistic understanding, so holistic wisdom doesn't mean anything to me. His world is simpler, and thus easier to achieve a holistic understanding of it. Here Ill give you an example. Ancient man was not aware of the crazy technologies today. He understood nature enough to grow plants, and hunt animals, particularly the how to of these things. Ancient man raises livestock for most of his life. One day ancient man runs into a buffalo instead of a cow. But he takes what he understands about life in general and applies it to the situation so he doesn't get killed. OK so now we have modern man. Hes a computer programmer and a helicopter flier. He is asked to fly a jet by his company. Does his understanding of reality apply as well as ancient mans would to the myriad of technologies he could encounter? I think I made my point earlier about this and you disagreed that circumstance of environment affects wisdom. I believe wisdom is very much tied to simplicity. I don't see it as less action.

Quote:

It was a world of mystery and mysticism, where true knowledge, guesses, and superstitious fears were intertwined to form what people now would call the "wisdom" of that age. There is nothing wise about knowing something for sure which is truly incorrect--it simply makes one seem wise, to those who do not know it to be incorrect. As such, the holy man of 5000BC who knew for sure that the sky was made of mystic apple juice, and was well respected for knowing this, was not wise at all, but simply an interesting and truly creative fool.




Let me guess, your not a religious man? :lol: Hey, I wouldn't even call myself religious, but I do very much buy into histories mythologies. I do not see Mythologies as only fear based reaction, or best guesses.

Quote:


Meanwhile, Emerson's quote is an interesting, but simplistic take on pragmatism.




Its pretty easy to label something and then think you know it in and out. Sure its simple. So is the Tao Te Ching. Try to not look at as a list of facts or arguments, but poetry.

On that note, I believe the Taoism generally advocates simple living for wisdom. Ancient man lived more simply. Its a simple matter of a relationship between man and reality, which I view as one in the same, meaning all these absurd circumstances are meaningless. Put a cave man in the future, hes not the same man, because its not the same reality.

But even if you don't believe this you can throw all different circumstances into the mix- give a cave man a rocket launcher, and hed be out of his element. But is there a limit to the technological concepts we can possibly create anyway? The only limit I can see is our desire. If there's no limit, any ancient medieval or modern man could theoretically be put to face with infinitely complex technologies. Like I earlier said if reality is infinite, quantifiable knowledge is meaningless.
:zoom:

This is my understanding of wisdom, and I don't expect you to agree or disagree, its just a perspective. Maybe its not a valid conclusion, but obviously thats not what I'm about. Take from it what you will.

:japsmile:

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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: The Ancients [Re: daytripper23]
    #7095648 - 06/26/07 04:37 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Its kind of just the best way I can logically define something I find mystical.




Indeed, we do think differently. You seem to believe that you can approach mysticism with logic, when they are diametrically opposed.

Quote:

Correctness doesn't apply to wisdom in my understanding of it...




Then you have an all-inclusive, non-exclusive definition of wisdom. A definition which includes everything by definition means nothing. Why do you bother talking about this if your philosophical approach essentially involves declarations which can neither be refuted, nor reasonably affirmed, because they have been reduced to senseless non-statements?

Quote:

Like I earlier said if reality is infinite, quantifiable knowledge is meaningless.




Again, meaning is attributed, not innate. It is something humans give things. I think that with your relativistic approach, you should appreciate this notion.

As I define it, wisdom is knowledge which people can apply to live well. Sometimes, wisdom comes in the form of falsehoods, as in useful mythological parables. Meanwhile, many things people know are doubly false, both factually and in that they do not aid them in living well. An example would be an unfounded mysticism that produces no utilitarian end for the individual or the society.

I do not think that your conception of wisdom is truly self-examined. I think it has more to do with the perception of being wise, a perception that can easily be achieved by any charlatan. There were those in ancient times that were quite wise, and who made statements that are universally applicable to the human race. Nonetheless, there were millions more who said things which seemed wise, but which had no basis in truth, either factual truth or the truth of utility. I don't think you make any distinction between truth and falsehood on any level, and I believe that is a misuse of the mind.

Quote:

Taoism generally advocates simple living for wisdom.




That it does. And simple living can be a sign of wisdom. Living simply, however, is not wisdom, or else the amoeba would surpass all humans in its wisdom, a thousand times over. If your definition of wisdom is an ignorance of everything but your most basic urges and the means to meet them, then you are misled, in my mind. The ancient man was not a wandering monk, in tune with holiness at every turn. The ancient man was much like the modern man--but ancient. As modern man resembles an educated animal, ancient man most often resembled an uneducated animal.


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: The Ancients [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7095895 - 06/26/07 05:38 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

figgusfiddus said:
Quote:

Its kind of just the best way I can logically define something I find mystical.




Indeed, we do think differently. You seem to believe that you can approach mysticism with logic, when they are diametrically opposed.

Quote:

Correctness doesn't apply to wisdom in my understanding of it...




Then you have an all-inclusive, non-exclusive definition of wisdom. A definition which includes everything by definition means nothing. Why do you bother talking about this if your philosophical approach essentially involves declarations which can neither be refuted, nor reasonably affirmed, because they have been reduced to senseless non-statements?





Yes I know I cant escape my subjectivity. I apply this to everything. Doesn't mean that everything is meaningless. Ironicly, if everything was truly objective I would find it all meaningless. So whats the point in anything if its not clearly definable? The only meaning we can derive of reality is out of this kind of meaninglessness.

Quote:

figgusfiddus said:
Quote:

Like I earlier said if reality is infinite, quantifiable knowledge is meaningless.




Again, meaning is attributed, not innate. It is something humans give things. I think that with your relativistic approach, you should appreciate this notion.





Well we know for sure that it is attributed, but that does not mean it doesn't have innate qualities as well. If all of meaning was all due to our interpretation of it, wouldn't life be more like a very abstract piece of modern art?

Quote:

figgusfiddus said:
As I define it, wisdom is knowledge which people can apply to live well.





So wisdom is essentially useful knowledge?

Quote:

figgusfiddus said:
Sometimes, wisdom comes in the form of falsehoods, as in useful mythological parables. Meanwhile, many things people know are doubly false, both factually and in that they do not aid them in living well. An example would be an unfounded mysticism that produces no utilitarian end for the individual or the society.





Doubly false? That maybe your perspective.


Quote:

figgusfiddus said:
I do not think that your conception of wisdom is truly self-examined. I think it has more to do with the perception of being wise, a perception that can easily be achieved by any charlatan. There were those in ancient times that were quite wise, and who made statements that are universally applicable to the human race. Nonetheless, there were millions more who said things which seemed wise, but which had no basis in truth, either factual truth or the truth of utility. I don't think you make any distinction between truth and falsehood on any level, and I believe that is a misuse of the mind.





Quote:

figgusfiddus said:
Quote:

Taoism generally advocates simple living for wisdom.




That it does. And simple living can be a sign of wisdom. Living simply, however, is not wisdom, or else the amoeba would surpass all humans in its wisdom, a thousand times over. If your definition of wisdom is an ignorance of everything but your most basic urges and the means to meet them, then you are misled, in my mind. The ancient man was not a wandering monk, in tune with holiness at every turn. The ancient man was much like the modern man--but ancient. As modern man resembles an educated animal, ancient man most often resembled an uneducated animal.




I never said simplicity equals wisdom.
Can wisdom be found in not making assumptions? I believe so. But what your what you said is like assuming i meant that wisdom is not making assumptions. Dogs dont make assumptions so are they wiser than us?

Again, I am not offering a definition here. I only said what I said because this perspective was lacking in this thread. These aren't all my thoughts upon wisdom, as I agree with much of what you and many other posters said as well, although I might not have made that clear. So is what you've said any more complete of a definition? Useful knowledge?

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The Ancients [Re: Archemetis]
    #7096024 - 06/26/07 06:00 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

look at Griaule and Dieterlen's documents if you like.

I have. Have you?

Griaule and Dieterlen published their findings on the Dogon's amazing knowledge in passing even though such a discovery would shake the anthropology world to its core.

Fortunately, science is a self-correcting system and bullshit eventually gets found out.

Anthropologist Walter Van Beek points out that Griaule and Dieterlen stand alone in the world in their claims on the secrets of the Dogon. No other anthropologist supports their opinion.

In 1991, Van Beek led a team of anthropologists who declared that they could find absolutely no trace of the detailed Sirius lore reported by the French anthropologists.

Griaule had stated that about fifteen percent of the Dogon tribe knew about this secret knowledge, but Van Beek could, in a decade of research with the Dogon, find not a single trace of this knowledge.

That people still believe the Dogon balony even though it's clearly not true is more evidence that once a True Believer makes up his mind, he does not change it no matter how much evidence undermining the belief is presented.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Posts: 2,126
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Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: The Ancients [Re: Diploid]
    #7096092 - 06/26/07 06:18 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Daytripper, if your response to every criticism is, "Well, that's subjective," and "Well, that's your opinion," I'm not sure why you feel the need to engage in debate. If everything is truly relative, why does it matter what you do, or what I think about it? Life is relative, death is relative, everything is relative; why not kill yourself now? Oh, you'd rather not? Well, perhaps some things are preferable to others. Perhaps you do live in reality with a few objective features.

Your style of debate is certainly unfulfilling and counterproductive to all parties involved, or at least all parties interested in an actual intellectual conversation. It is not so much even debate as the simple refusal to debate, make concession, or even produce any rational defense of your argument other than "Well, I'd say it's relative."

Quote:

Again, I am not offering a definition here.




I can't say I've seen that you're offering anything here. A conversation without definitions is a circlejerk, at best.

Quote:

I only said what I said because this perspective was lacking in this thread.




The introduction of relativism can either provide perspective or remove all perspective by expanding the field indefinitely. You seem to favor the latter.

Quote:

These aren't all my thoughts upon wisdom, as I agree with much of what you and many other posters said as well, although I might not have made that clear. So is what you've said any more complete of a definition? Useful knowledge?




Yes. Yes, "knowledge that is useful for living a good life" seems a very good definition of wisdom to me, and it is much more complete than the simple addition of the denatured word "holistic" before everything you say.

I'm going to characterize your statements into a simple dialogue. People hate this, but I think I'm giving you accurate treatment, even though I'm sure you don't.

"No, really, you don't understand my definition of wisdom... when I say wisdom, I mean wisdom about everything, man. You know, the universe. Infinity. Infinity is big, like the universe. It's everywhere, and that's what wisdom is all about."

"Yeah. So what the fuck are you talking about?"


--------------------
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS

Edited by figgusfiddus (06/26/07 06:24 PM)

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