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a shamanic path: psychedelics vs. society *DELETED*
    #7066198 -

Post deleted by onlynow

Reason for deletion: went off my off-topic



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Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Re: a shamanic path: psychedelics vs. society [Re: onlynow]
    #7066211 -

onlynow said:
do you ever feel that society interferes with one's desire and ability to expand through the use of psychedelics?

i don't know about you guys, but i want to trip as much as possible during this life.  there is no "too much" for me.  there is only "too much" when i am surrounded by society.

that is why i want a career where i don't have to be around people.  like truck driving.  truck driving would give me the solitude needed to be able to trip out as much as possible.  call me a recluse or anti-social, but i have my friends and that is all i want.  i don't want to work around people i don't want to associate with.  i can't do a lot of psychedelics and be able to maintain that "mask".  it just doesn't work.  this is why i think a lot of psych junkies just say "fuck the working world" you know.

i used to do a lot of psychedelics, and i became pretty disconnected from society.  it was an enlightening experience, but it had to end because i need society right now.  i stopped using psych's and am now reconnected with society.  but i miss my past.  something is missing!

anyone have similar feelings?

does anyone else think life should be all about experience and that society is somewhat of an opposite path? :crazy2:


I think this whole idea of "counter-culture" espoused by Leary and others is completely unproductive. Honestly, it saddens me. People take psychedelics, and they think the only way to be is to separate themselves from society at large. If your intentions were truly noble, and you wanted to "change the world," so to speak, you would work within society, to bring your ideas INTO the mainstream.

The "mainstream" is not some inherently evil thing. It simply is what it is. I feel that those of us who have had our lives touched by psychedelia and who believe that the psychedelic experience has helped us to develop as a human being have a responsibility to the experience itself to bring it to the world at large. We must be heralds of the experience, psychonauts who use our substances safely and responsibly. The idea is not to "form your own society" or "start your own religion" like Leary said, and cut yourself off from society.

You have to work within it if you want to change it.


--------------------
Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.

-Erik Davis

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Re: a shamanic path: psychedelics vs. society [Re: onlynow]
    #7066228 -

I totally agree with you. I think it is the way society is set up that leads us in an opposite path than psychedelics do. I also want to be able to experience much tripping and enlightenment throughout my life, but society these days makes it very hard. That's why I think I will try and get some job where i can be outdoors as much as possible (mycology or botany). If there was no modern day society per se and we were all just a bunch of humans just out to live life ( not make money, or wage wars, or hold a dead end job) and experience what is out there, it would be soooo mush more enjoyable through my perspective (not that life isn't incredibly enjoyable).


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When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will know peace.

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Re: a shamanic path: psychedelics vs. society [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7066230 -

I agree. We can't act like we are "elitists"

I propose we never use the word Revolution again.

The key word is: Intergration.


My names resonate!


--------------------

"I'm looking at you looking at it"

SUBSCRIBE TO MY YOUTUBE CHANNEL PLEASE! www.youtube.com/apollyphelion



Creator of the World's Worst Comic Book

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Re: a shamanic path: psychedelics vs. society [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7066315 -

well other soceities like european ones arnt so bad. but the USA hell yeah it makes me want to live in a cave


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"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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Re: a shamanic path: psychedelics vs. society [Re: thedudenj]
    #7066356 -

The shaman's path is not divergent from society's... in fact they run parallel. There is no "vs.," no conflict here, I believe.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: a shamanic path: psychedelics vs. society [Re: onlynow]
    #7066410 -

yeah, I can DEFINATELY relate to that. Look man, if you feel isolated from society because you can't understand their indifference towards each other, try meditating. Look up vipassana meditation by s.n. goenka.
Peace


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk

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Re: a shamanic path: psychedelics vs. society [Re: imachavel]
    #7066432 -

well it more so depends on the soceity in a society that accepts shamanism then most certainly that shaman needs to be there


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"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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Re: a shamanic path: psychedelics vs. society [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7066483 -

The world's going to shit, guys. Things aren't getting any better, and the way things are now "asking" to change things is only making a faint noise that few will hear, and none will listen to. As a whole, society has been lying to you from the moment you came into it (at least American society). They've been trying to make you into a drone that's sole purpose is make the machine bigger and more powerful no matter what the cost; and if you fail to submit to demand, you are labeled a "criminal" and forced to spend your time with evil human shit. You're not supposed to do what you think is right or necessary, other people decide that for you; you're supposed to do as you've been trained and conditioned to do, which is obey and follow. Just think back to when you were in school. Think of all the fucking lies that were fed to you. Think of all the times history was skewed and distorted to make America look good, and right, and just. It truly is fucking disgusting, and what's worse is that your job was not think about it, it was to chew on this nonsense and regurgitate it back as truth and fact, and to be proud of it.
I know that many of you want to dismiss what I'm saying and just call me antisocial or misanthropic because you so badly want to believe in the good things that humans are capable of; I do too. I so badly want to be at peace with the way things are but i can't look past all this negative shit that is being shown to me. The good in humans is amazingly beautiful, but it is just our silhouette; it is not our true face. And that's where most people get stuck. They are so awe struck at the beauty of the shape that they dont even think to turn on the light; which is a good thing because most people would be terrified to see the greed, horror, and evil that is within us all.
So what I'm saying is do what you want. Live your own life, but make it truly yours. If you KNOW you want to be a drone than be one; if you want to act like an elitist then go and pretend your shit smells like spring rain if that's really what you want. I myself have chosen to say "fuck this society" it's the hallucination. Sure i have a job but it's just so i can live because if i moved out to the mountains to live off the land i would be dead in 3 weeks. My job is just a job, it has nothing to do with my real life. What i want to do is develop a connection between my spirit and that of the earth's using mushrooms as a tool, and to explore whatever realities i can get a glimpse at using other natural tools. It's as simple as that, i want to live, i want to feel, i want to be. And yeah, i do feel like i know more than that 55 year old guy driving a porche, but he feels the same way about me, so fuck him. I'm going to let him be and I'm going to go live MY life, not yours, not theirs.


--------------------
Oh, do not ask "What is it?"
Let us go and make our visit.

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Re: a shamanic path: psychedelics vs. society [Re: burntcokie13]
    #7066595 -

Ehhh... we have a pessimist.

Can you honestly tell me the world was a better place 500, 100, 50 years ago than it is now?


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: a shamanic path: psychedelics vs. society [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7066621 -

See, there you go, dismissed it as soon as you finished reading it, you just called me a different word than the ones i used. And no, i cant tell you that, but i can tell you it aint gettin any better.


--------------------
Oh, do not ask "What is it?"
Let us go and make our visit.

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Re: a shamanic path: psychedelics vs. society [Re: burntcokie13]
    #7066953 -

Sure it sucks. But what makes you say so conclusively it's not getting better at all? There's no logic in saying progress stops now just because it's now.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Tchan909 (06/19/07 06:58 PM)

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Re: a shamanic path: psychedelics vs. society [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7067131 -

Tchan909 said:
The shaman's path is not divergent from society's... in fact they run parallel. There is no "vs.," no conflict here, I believe.


"do you ever feel that society interferes with one's desire and ability to expand through the use of psychedelics?"
------------------------------------------------------------------

PSychedelic use over the years has made me feel seperate from most people and in a very obvious set of ways. I also know that I am way more effected by psychedelics due to my personality, the composition of my brain, and how much I took.

My mind just doenst work the same as most.
My ideas cant seperate from my society though. They are inherently a part of society. Im not the only one........

I dont feel terribly seperate. I just notice how I am different.

Psychedelic shamanism has its place no matter where you go, and it evolves to cator to that which surrounds that base of psychedelic knowledge. It assimilates to how much access it has to any given sect of a society, and treats the people accordingly.

If I didnt want to become a greater part of this country I live in I would take more psychedelic drugs.
As of now though I have learned all I want at this point because I love all people and do not want to isolate myself from most people any longer.

I will always have my inspired capasity to speak in front of others, and my nutty/complex sense of humor. I can thank psychedelics for this too.
Im not a revolutionary, and thats because I know where people like me reside in what is sort of a power struggle.
I spend my time assimilating, and the last thing I want is to seperate further.
If lets say I wanted to teach, I cant seem all too seperate.
I need to take it slow with my mind and the people I communicate with.


--------------------
[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.

Edited by yageman (06/19/07 07:38 PM)

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Re: a shamanic path: psychedelics vs. society [Re: OneMoreRobot3021]
    #7067154 -

OneMoreRobot3021 said:
I think this whole idea of "counter-culture" espoused by Leary and others is completely unproductive. Honestly, it saddens me. People take psychedelics, and they think the only way to be is to separate themselves from society at large. If your intentions were truly noble, and you wanted to "change the world," so to speak, you would work within society, to bring your ideas INTO the mainstream.

The "mainstream" is not some inherently evil thing. It simply is what it is. I feel that those of us who have had our lives touched by psychedelia and who believe that the psychedelic experience has helped us to develop as a human being have a responsibility to the experience itself to bring it to the world at large. We must be heralds of the experience, psychonauts who use our substances safely and responsibly. The idea is not to "form your own society" or "start your own religion" like Leary said, and cut yourself off from society.

You have to work within it if you want to change it.


i in no way want to change society or the world, i am not talking about "counter-culture". i am not against society, i just want to take a path in life that is different from it. i don't think it is unreasonable to say society hinders a certain growth in me that i want to achieve. there are parts of society i am interested in, but i want to be attached to it as little as possible.

Quote:
I feel that those of us who have had our lives touched by psychedelia and who believe that the psychedelic experience has helped us to develop as a human being have a responsibility to the experience itself to bring it to the world at large.



i agree, and that is one of my intentions.


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Re: a shamanic path: psychedelics vs. society [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7067176 -

Tchan909 said:
The shaman's path is not divergent from society's... in fact they run parallel. There is no "vs.," no conflict here, I believe.


in my head, they are two completely different paths :smirk:


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Re: a shamanic path: psychedelics vs. society [Re: imachavel]
    #7067195 -

imachavel said:
yeah, I can DEFINATELY relate to that. Look man, if you feel isolated from society because you can't understand their indifference towards each other, try meditating. Look up vipassana meditation by s.n. goenka.
Peace


i don't feel that isolated, not to the point where i want to change myself. i can work and do everything everybody else does, im just considering a different path.

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Re: a shamanic path: psychedelics vs. society [Re: onlynow]
    #7067415 -

Tchan909 said:
There's no logic in saying progress stops now just because it's now.


I'm not saying there's no progress just because it's right now. Like you said 500, 100, 50 years things were shitty, maybe there has never been any progress.

onlynow said:
i am not against society, i just want to take a path in life that is different from it.


I am against this society in general but it's not by choice. Some outside or inside energy is forcing me to take that other path. Whatever it is i'm thankful for it.


--------------------
Oh, do not ask "What is it?"
Let us go and make our visit.

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Re: a shamanic path: psychedelics vs. society [Re: onlynow]
    #7067432 -

onlynow said:
Tchan909 said:
The shaman's path is not divergent from society's... in fact they run parallel. There is no "vs.," no conflict here, I believe.


in my head, they are two completely different paths :smirk:


Really man?

  You dont see how any shaman is part of a society and cator to the beliefs of shamans of the past and evolve only slightly without outside influences?
Thats why there are more shamans than their should be, and they need some pay...............lol

A shaman works for his people.  If you were a british shaman you would work with your people. 

I just dont see how "society".......lol, can be in an argument with the practices of shamans around the world aside from the fact that they sometimes use drugs that are illegal in some countries.

Society, vs shamanism.

  Yes, that makes sense, but thats actually something that true shamanism bipasses altogether.

  You didnt reply to my response but I might as well reply to yours.

  I dont think anyone here want to argue with you beyond telling you that you need to read more about shamanism.  How vast that term really is, and whether you are just talking about psychedelic shamanism.

  All sorts of shamans out there dude.

  Some would even like to see your head chopped of if you treated them the wrong way...........

  Shamanism VS society  = not a fair fight.

  Not even relavent.


--------------------
[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.

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Re: a shamanic path: psychedelics vs. society [Re: yageman]
    #7067610 -

the shamans path is a solitary path, this is all i am saying. i am also just comparing my path to a shamans, im ignorant of a shaman's subjective experience.


--------------------

Strive to be more than a codified manifestation of a generalized technological consciousness

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Re: a shamanic path: psychedelics vs. society [Re: onlynow]
    #7067630 -

onlynow said:
the shamans path is a solitary path, this is all i am saying. i am also just comparing my path to a shamans, im ignorant of a shaman's subjective experience.


the shamans only purpose of living is other people he is their tool to the wisdom he holds and healing themsleves thru him so i cant really in any way that its a solitary path.


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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