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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Emotions [Re: Rose]
    #7064113 - 06/19/07 01:02 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

If you decide to take ad litteram... which I know you're inclined to but it's not the case :smirk:

Let me rephrase that though:
We a think called self awareness.
Which made us realize that we exist and that we know that we exist. Which in extent made us aware of our feelings that we can control them since we're not strangers to ourselves anymore :smile:
And on that we already came to an understanding earlier.
Since we know that we know (again) that we can control our own feelings, we can't hide behind a theory anymore unless... we really want to find an excuse for self-indulgence.
Now consider this awareness and self awareness as a tool for making our feelings change the way we want. The way we use this awareness as a toll is exactly the way we use airplanes to make us fly.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: Emotions [Re: Rose]
    #7064159 - 06/19/07 01:25 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Cervantes said:
You say you aren't talking about me in particular... but from your last sentence, it seems like you are.




I didn't say I wasn't talking about you, just... not you exclusively. :smile:

Quote:

Well, you'd have a point... if stress weren't a trigger for most emotions, positive and negative. This is why I bring up male, and female stress responses. I could also, link to evidence that ESTROGEN encourages women to feel emotions more often than men... while society encourages men to suppress their emotions.




What are "positive and negative" emotions? I don't know, that's the kind of thinking I was talking about. I'm not calling you simplistic, but I think your analysis is simplistic.

It doesn't say that estrogen encourages women to feel more emotions, just that it may lead them to act more communally in stressful/dangerous situations.

That men don't feel emotions or are taught to somehow suppress them is a tired 1950s stereotype... I don't think anyone can really say that men feel emotions more rarely. Jealousy, rage, fear, love... all these things are emotions, and all people feel them. I do think it is more typical of male psychology not to discuss those emotions or to seek answers to their emotional issues by themselves, but I don't see how that relates to the study quoted. I think this study is a case of sound basic science being assumed to have widespread psychological implications.


By the way, I have no interest in the original post whatsoever that is unrelated to mockery. What's up with this thread? Can we see some age verification?

That's not a jibe... well, okay, it's a jibe, but I really think this is some adolescent stuff that will work itself out. "Love only leads to heartbreak! WOE! WOE!" Ah shit, there I go, proving I'm an insensitive male. :smile:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Emotions [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7064162 - 06/19/07 01:27 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

It doesn't say that estrogen encourages women to feel more emotions, just that it may lead them to act more communally in stressful/dangerous situations.

That men don't feel emotions or are taught to somehow suppress them is a tired 1950s stereotype... I don't think anyone can really say that men feel emotions more rarely. Jealousy, rage, fear, love... all these things are emotions, and all people feel them. I do think it is more typical of male psychology not to discuss those emotions or to seek answers to their emotional issues by themselves, but I don't see how that relates to the study quoted. I think this study is a case of sound basic science being assumed to have widespread psychological implications.




:laugh: :thumbup:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Emotions [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7064164 - 06/19/07 01:29 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I think I understand what you are saying, and if I do... I agree.

Although, I suspect you are as drunk as I am... because your posts are getting hard to read. You actually wrote, "We a think called self awareness."

Heh, it is getting late... we should continue tomorrow, on fresh brains.

Moderator edit: Removed off-topic portion of reply.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by fireworks_god (06/19/07 12:21 PM)

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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: Emotions [Re: Rose]
    #7064167 - 06/19/07 01:31 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

If FG is figgusfiddus, I'm pretty hard to offend, and wish that everyone else in the world were so allowing.


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Emotions [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7064175 - 06/19/07 01:37 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

FG = Fireworks God

Quote:

figgusfiddus said:
What are "positive and negative" emotions? I don't know, that's the kind of thinking I was talking about. I'm not calling you simplistic, but I think your analysis is simplistic.





I agree. My analysis IS simplistic. I like to keep my forum posts... well, post sized. That unfortunately requires cutting corners... from time to time.

I learned here, long ago... make your point... and defend it later. If people don't ask for more info... they didn't want to hear it in the first place.

I provided links to MORE information, BECAUSE my analysis WAS simplistic.

You are as guilty as I... since I have not yet seen analysis from your end to over complicate mine. :tongue:

Fugg... I have one person asking for SIMPLE descriptions of my links, and then I have you, asking for complicated ones. You're getting the shaft... because I haven't known you as long. :tongue:


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (06/19/07 02:04 AM)

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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: Emotions [Re: Rose]
    #7064185 - 06/19/07 01:41 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Well, simplistic and simple are different things, at least the way I see it. But we can let it go. :smile:


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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Emotions [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #7064224 - 06/19/07 01:58 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Keep it simple.

Keep it simplistic.

Whatever...

If I had covered every single thing argued in this thread... I'd have covered everything from the rules of this forum, to weather things can ever actually be, "Positive and Negative".

This thread is about, "Emotions" hence the title... and, "Love" hence the first post. Forgive me for swimming through as many non-sequeters as possible... and attempting to keep it simple.

Forgive me for my simplistic analysis... that is why I posted links, to flesh out my thoughts.

Guilty as charged.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (06/19/07 02:07 AM)

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Emotions [Re: Rose]
    #7064936 - 06/19/07 09:25 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Don't you wonder whether this "chemical fact" would be as factual if women were socialized differently? 

Hmmm...I am reminded of a fascinating study I read in which men who were very involved in the gestation, birth and early care of their children showed major shifts in their endocrinology.  I'll have to see if I can find it online later.  (At work now. :tongue:)

Suffice it to say, our endocrinology is probably far more responsive to our behavior than you are claiming.  Men who choose to be more in touch with their emotions (so-called "feminine side") may develop a different endocrine profile than those who choose to identify with the macho "tough guy" stereotype. 

More later.  :smile:

(Nice to see you around again, Cervantes.)

Found it!

Fathers and Hormonal Changes

Quote:

Parke believes that the research suggests something even more radical: "Men are much more androgynous than we think." We have the capability to be aggressive and nurturing. The traditional view of men as predominantly aggressive really sells men short and denies their capability to experience the range of human emotions.

The research suggests that a man's hormones may play an important role in helping him experience this full range of emotions especially in becoming a loving and devoted dad. In fact, it offers the first evidence that to nurture is part of man's nature.







Edited by Veritas (06/19/07 09:50 AM)

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Emotions [Re: Veritas]
    #7065439 - 06/19/07 12:05 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I SAW that on the news this week. Very cool.

Fathers will practically become mothers, while their girl is preggers.

Not too surprising... hell, some animals will switch sex... if need be.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Emotions [Re: Rose]
    #7065608 - 06/19/07 12:48 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Not just during pregancy, but potentially permanently, if they continue to actively parent their child! 

I suspect that our endocrinology is highly responsive to our behavior, as well as vice versa.  It is not a one-way, set-in-stone by our XX/XY factor, one-size-fits-all chemical composition, but a fluid, responsive, highly-changeable formula.

"The Alchemy of Love and Lust," by Dr. Theresa Crenshaw, is a fantastic book regarding endocrinology in process.  :thumbup:

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Emotions [Re: Veritas]
    #7065623 - 06/19/07 12:53 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Fascinating stuff... both sexes are programmed to act one way...

Then children get put into the mix... and a father becomes maternal... he may even begin the lactation process.

Dead beat dads have no such change... they leave BEFORE the estrogen starts pumping... and continue acting like alpha males.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Emotions [Re: Rose]
    #7065763 - 06/19/07 01:33 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I'd be interested in a study which compares the estrogen/testosterone ratio in men who are emotionally intimate with their partners vs. "loners" or emotionally distant relationships.

I've heard anecdotal evidence which supports my suspicion that it is connection, and not biological imperatives (childrearing) which tips the balance between nurturant (estrogen) and competitive (testosterone) hormones.

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Emotions [Re: Veritas]
    #7065932 - 06/19/07 02:25 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I'm on the same page.

Still human males are much more inconsistent as parents than other primates.

Other monkey males either raise their young, or they don't. Humans are much less consistent.

It is theorized that since humans take so long, and so much energy to mature... the man is hardwired to step in for the woman... when society needs it.

I wonder, if women are wired to step into a man's role...


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (06/19/07 02:36 PM)

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Emotions [Re: Rose]
    #7066021 - 06/19/07 02:50 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Well, as a single mother, I have to fulfill both the "man's" role (providing, protecting) AND the "woman's" role (nurturing, teaching).

So it seems that the sexes are fairly adaptable to what is needed. Perhaps if our culture were more oriented toward androgeny, there would be a less-defined line between these gender roles, and thus fewer hormonal and behavioral distinctions between the sexes?

Of course, there will always be biological differences, as they are necessary for our reproductive functionality, but they do seem to have become fairly exaggerated by our cultural dictates. Both sexes are encouraged to become emotionally stunted in certain aspects, rather than develop into "well-rounded" humans.

I've always aimed for androgeny, myself, as I see many beneficial qualities in both masculinity and femininity.

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Emotions [Re: Veritas]
    #7066126 - 06/19/07 03:21 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

As do I.

I wonder if bisexuality, homosexuality, transgender... etc... I wonder if they become MORE common, as population increases. Sort of nature's way of preventing overpopulation?

There is proof of animals switching sexes during times of underpopulation.

Could overpopulation lead to androgeny?

Certainly big cities are more liberal towards homosexuals... et all.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Emotions [Re: Rose]
    #7066246 - 06/19/07 03:57 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Now, now, androgeny refers to gender performance, NOT sexual orientation.  :lol:  Sexual orientation seems to be "set" in utero, or so the latest studies indicate.  Gender performance is learned, culturally enforced and variable.

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InvisibleWilliamsii
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Re: Emotions [Re: Veritas]
    #7066396 - 06/19/07 04:37 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Well Shakespeare pulled his plots from previous stories. In the case of Othello, Hecatommithi from Cinthio's collection of stories. These stories reflected realities in the human condition.

Quote:

Serontonin makes one vulnerable to paranoia




That is a very simplified statement and is not particularly true.
Serotonin causes one emotional reaction. It is a more complex and subtle balance of chemicals of the brain that leads it to paranoia.

I feel love is too complex to cover in this short medium. There are so many varied opinions and types of love that we could argue about this for a ridiculously long time. Try and accept that you need to learn for yourself because people generally won't believe something until they experience it themselves.

Feel the love

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InvisibleWilliamsii
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Re: Emotions [Re: Williamsii]
    #7066481 - 06/19/07 05:01 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

woops! Didn't realise there were several pages . Sorry guys.

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OfflineRoseM
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Re: Emotions [Re: Veritas]
    #7066497 - 06/19/07 05:07 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Heh, Will... I was wondering if you'd read this whole thing. :wink:

Quote:

Veritas said:
Now, now, androgeny refers to gender performance, NOT sexual orientation.  :lol:  Sexual orientation seems to be "set" in utero, or so the latest studies indicate.  Gender performance is learned, culturally enforced and variable.




Yes, you miss my point.

I wonder if there will be a higher percentage of homosexuals conceived... as the world's population increases. Or if not homosexuals, at least... people with less need to procreate. This was the global, "Androgyny" I was referencing in my last post... not the best word choice... but I'm sticking with it.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


Edited by Rose (06/19/07 05:13 PM)

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