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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Mixed Martial Arts
    #7040571 -

Just a note that NONE of the 'soft' martial arts such as Aikido or Tai Chi Chuan, that are revered as almost magical and INDEFENSIBLE, have any chance whatsoever in the cage, octagon or ring. By the same token, the Westerners in general, dominate the Easterners, despite history, heritage and myth.

Strength and training and technique kicks ass on mumbo-jumbo every single day of the week.


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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7041287 -

depends on the fighter.


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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: AlteredAgain]
    #7041317 -

Until we have the technology to "recreate" Bruce Lee, we shall never know...

BTW, MMA fighting, and the whole UFC is gaining BIG popularity lately. There was a whole segment on the Daily Show about it.

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7041385 -

Somebody who is a Tai Chi master would be untouchable- but such a person wouldn't bother with UFC (and would likely be too old). As an add-on skill, it would be useful, but no more so than (for example) ballet.


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Roger Rabbit said: Growing mushrooms is part art, and part science, but it's not magic.

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: Dr_T]
    #7041426 -

Quote:
Somebody who is a Tai Chi master would be untouchable...


And you base this false legend on what exactly?

Quote:
but such a person wouldn't bother with UFC


You have interviewed such a person and know this to be true?


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Re: Mixed Martial Arts *DELETED* [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7041463 -

Post deleted by fireworks_god

Reason for deletion: This forum is for discussing ideas, and not the personal nature of other posters. If you cannot contribute to the discussion by openly discussing the ideas presented, then feel free to either direct such comments to them through private messages, or keep quiet about it.


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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: FollowTheMusic]
    #7041500 -

I will try to write more useful things such as your insightful contribution to the thread.


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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: FollowTheMusic]
    #7041504 -

:wtf:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs
:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7041518 -

What do Martial arts have to do with either Philosophy OR Spirituality?


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: FollowTheMusic]
    #7041540 -

This is his life. Leave him alone.:monkeydance:

Moderator edit: Removed quotation of deleted post.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by fireworks_god (06/13/07 01:50 PM)

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: Rono]
    #7041546 -

Rono said:
What do Martial arts have to do with either Philosophy OR Spirituality?


That was my first question also.

ORGONE, dude, the Pub needs you. We most likely can live without this.;)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: Icelander]
    #7041680 -

i've wondered alot about this too. i'd like to think poeple who do internal arts couldn't fight in a setup like this, because they would end up killing each other instead of knocking each other out. honestly i don't know though.

i think until a top UFC guy fights a 100lb 80 year old taichi guy and gets his ass kicked i'm going to HAVE to remain skeptical of the internal arts power.


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You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7041703 -

OK, here is a slightly more direct response: your characterization of soft martial arts is derived almost entirely from a 1960's Eastern-Mysticism, Hollywood view, and is not authentic. Chinese soldiers practiced Wushu (Gong fu), not (primarily) Tai Chi. Samurai practiced Bushido; Aikido wasn't even founded until well after hand-fighting was secondary to warfare. The goals of Tai Chi have little or nothing to do with winning MMA tournaments. Etc., etc. -- in short, this is a straw-man argument.

As for my original comment, I sincerely apologize. It would appear that couching one's posts in language that is deliberately aggressive and confrontational can be counterproductive, regardless of the intended meaning. I will contemplate that.

:peace::heart:

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7041849 -

I saw this thread and just couldn't resist.

Man with self proclaimed 200 - 0 fighting record can beat opponents without ever even touching them and puts up $5,000 that he can beat any MMA fighter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

here's a nicer bloodier view of that fight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jf3Gc2a0_8&mode=related&search=


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"Every word I utter for hip hop lovers will reflect forever like two mirrors facing each other."

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: _Monkey_]
    #7042191 -

jet li knows tia chi, ever see twin warriors, i think jet li could kick a UFC guys ass using tia chi and aikido is suppose to be a really strong style


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"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: thedudenj]
    #7042483 -

Hmmm I don't know man unless jet li is highly trained on the ground and doesn't try any of the unnecessary fancy stuff I see in the movies I wouldn't see him winning.


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"Every word I utter for hip hop lovers will reflect forever like two mirrors facing each other."

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: _Monkey_]
    #7042527 -

yeah but tia chi is a fighting style that people often over look and when used right can be devastating, even if you didnt have the feeling of the flow of chi if you know the movments the laws of physics set in cause the movments are based on the flow of energy.


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"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: thedudenj]
    #7042563 -

Well, we could speculate all day long as to which style is more capable of fufilling the intended purpose in combat, etc. etc. etc., but all that it really comes down to is perception of movement and force and of utilizing movement and force. I'd have to imagine that the most effective fighters do not adhere to any specific school of thought as to how one should fight, but simply enter into a state where their senses are magnified and can judge the actions of another and are capable of utilizing their own body to act in accordance with their movement and take their own action.

Its all inertia and force and, like has been said, the laws of physics. :grin:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7042573 -

So do you think Jet Li would pwn the UFC?


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"Every word I utter for hip hop lovers will reflect forever like two mirrors facing each other."

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7042583 -

true that its more about their senses then anything and understanding of physics and their body


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"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: thedudenj]
    #7042590 -

Yes. :thumbup:

Regarding "Jet Li", or the "UFC", I have no fucking clue. :lol:

But, from what I hear, Chuck Norris slammed G*d's face into a wall and grated G*d's face agansit the cold, hard brick until G*d submitted. :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7042610 -

Wesley Snipes is a bad ass too, I heard him and Rogan were suppose to fight a while back.

At least I think it was Rogan.

Either way I would have loved to see Wesley Snipes kick some ass other than vampires.


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"Every word I utter for hip hop lovers will reflect forever like two mirrors facing each other."

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: _Monkey_]
    #7042653 -

word


--------------------

"You all are just  puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain...""
you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: Rono]
    #7043272 -

Rono said:
What do Martial arts have to do with either Philosophy OR Spirituality?


Maybe if you read the post, you would have found your own answer. Do you know what martial arts is? Most martial art practices are centered around a spiritual foundation, and this post offers commentary on this and its practicality when proponents of these practices are engaged in combat with those who are not.

What does motorcycle repair have to do with Zen? What does physics have to do with spirituality? It is the context in which something is placed and discussed that determines whether or not it is open for discussion in this forum. All phenomenon pertains to philosophy and spirituality when viewed with such a lens. :yesnod:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7043481 -

I used to take Aikido, and of course it's not going to do much in the ring against trained MMA fighters. It's a softer martial art based on the much more intense art of Jiujitsu.

BTW, I don't watch MMA, so I can't judge precisely, but aren't most of the contestants white? I'm sure in places like China and Japan, they have their own MMA fights, but as Westerners, we watch TV, and therefore don't see what's going on over there.


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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: Silversoul]
    #7043524 -

I personally don't put a lot of stock in MMA, I think a lot of it is a work and don't truthfully buy that what goes on in the octagon is the best in the world. Just my opinion though.

By the way, the video of the Kai Master had me cracking up.


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Hi  :scrambled:

My god... it's full of stars...

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts *DELETED* [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7045978 -

Post deleted by Lakefingers

Reason for deletion: No reason.

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: Lakefingers]
    #7046036 -

An invisibility cloak is the way to go. :thumbup:


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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7046418 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Just a note that NONE of the 'soft' martial arts such as Aikido or Tai Chi Chuan, that are revered as almost magical and INDEFENSIBLE, have any chance whatsoever in the cage, octagon or ring. By the same token, the Westerners in general, dominate the Easterners, despite history, heritage and myth.

Strength and training and technique kicks ass on mumbo-jumbo every single day of the week.


I have never had a Tai Chi instructor who claimed Tai Chi was the BEST means to kick someone's ass. Those guys know there is no defense for a good grappler. The Gracie clan has a better art for kicking ass. I have never known a teacher to deny it.

Tai-Chi is a mostly 2D form... where you must stay on your feet.
As a means of self defense... it is quite limited.

Of all the "Zen" arts... most had spirituality added at a later date. This worked as a way for the Chinese to continue teaching their religious beliefs, during Confucian times. A way to hide, in plain sight.

I believe Tai-Chi Chuan added the "Zen" later. Hshing-Yi and Pah-Gua (we can argue about the spellings, later) are forms, more closely tied to teaching and learning Zen. They are also, slightly "Harder" forms.

Fighters, are like rappers... they like to claim they are the BEST! Don't buy into the bullshit. The history of Martial arts is interesting enough, without the false bravado.


--------------------
Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: Rose]
    #7046848 -

Cervantes said:
I have never had a Tai Chi instructor who claimed Tai Chi was the BEST means to kick someone's ass. Those guys know there is no defense for a good grappler. 


Except to be a better grappler? :rolleyes:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you
:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7046903 -

Damn... I coulda' written that thought better.

My Tai-Chi instructors knew that a grappling capitalizes on the weakness of Tai-Chi and other Asian forms.

I personally had my ass kicked in a match with a Gracie chick half my size. Didn't hurt... I just couldn't move... once she got me off my feet, I was on her turf. Kinda' hot getting your ass handed to you by a girl.


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7047795 -

The cage, the ring and the octagon are not martial arenas they are sporting events.:heart:

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: Rose]
    #7048156 -

Quote:
Kinda' hot getting your ass handed to you by a girl.


Yeah, right! The ego will use ANY excuse to protect its self image. :rolleyes:


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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7049573 -

She kicked everyone's ass in the room.

It was my Tai-Chi instructor's way of showing us... there are better means of self defense out there.


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Fiddlesticks.


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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: Rose]
    #7054590 -

It's all about Jeet Kune Do. It is no one style. It is what is practical; it is what's effective; it is seeing "MMA" as ONE style. When you break it down and call it "mixed martial arts" then you have people from all different backgrounds fighting. Now when you have these different backgrounds and fighting styles competing against each other, some styles are simply more practical than others. No offense to any of you Kung Fu people out there, but Kung Fu is incredibly impractical. They're trying to look pretty while still being functional, it just doesn't work. However, a person who has dedicated their entire life to Kung Fu, could kick a Jiu-jitsu fighter's ass if he let his years of pretty kick dancing fly out the window and focus on systematically tearing down his opponent's attempts at taking the fight to the ground. If he does get taken down though, he's pretty much fucked. But then again, jiu-jitsu is simply more practical. you're not trying to look pretty, you're trying to destroy your opponent's ability to fight. So i say train in every style you can, they all have great things to offer, but only use what works in a fight.


--------------------
Oh, do not ask "What is it?"
Let us go and make our visit.

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Re: Mixed Martial Arts [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7054762 -

OrgoneConclusion said:
Just a note that NONE of the 'soft' martial arts such as Aikido or Tai Chi Chuan, that are revered as almost magical and INDEFENSIBLE, have any chance whatsoever in the cage, octagon or ring. By the same token, the Westerners in general, dominate the Easterners, despite history, heritage and myth.

Strength and training and technique kicks ass on mumbo-jumbo every single day of the week.


I dunno man, As a 110 lb. woman, I'm never going to be particularly 'strong', but I hold out a pretty great degree of confidence, that the fluid movement of 'soft' forms is more of a tool for me than trying to outmuscle an opponent. There are few potential attackers I'd be likely to outmuscle. I agree that training is important, but I don't believe that having formalized 'hard' movements is particularily useful for a person like me. As far as martial arts go, I find Systema more appealing than most. It's too bad that no one teaches it where I live.

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Shop: Myyco.com Golden Teacher Liquid Culture For Sale   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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