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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Meeting a "loser" [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7030494 - 06/10/07 03:17 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

who knows though. Even bad trips can be a catalyst for very deep, rewarding introspection.
Maybe he would realize that he is at rock bottom and that all the chains he perceives to be on him are of his own doing.

Many of these bums spend every waking second trying to run away from the severity and reality of their situation and life. Be it taking drugs for fleeting moments of gratification, or the search for drugs, as long as they dont have to think about how much of a fuck up they are.

I mean, if someone is at rock bottom, how much more damage could you do to them by giving them mushrooms?

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OfflineKinematics
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Registered: 10/01/06
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Re: Meeting a "loser" [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7030501 - 06/10/07 03:20 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

psilocyberin above posted up about how a lot of homeless people have become so lost they are just selfish and manipulative to the max, and I think this is true as well.. but I really think the best thing to do in this situation is to continue to be compassionate and generous, and maybe just hope one day that honest compassion for them will spark something inside, and they could change for the better.

For the ones that continue to be selfish, maybe it is less of an opportunity for them and more of an opportunity for you. How long can one continue to show compassion in the face of that sort of person? Maybe this is your test to find out.

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Meeting a "loser" [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7030536 - 06/10/07 03:35 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

who knows though. Even bad trips can be a catalyst for very deep, rewarding introspection.




True but not in all cases. Like PhanTomCat said, being homeless is not the best set and setting and I don't think that being a meth head helps either. Psychedelics are known for helping people getting out of addictions, but with additional and specialized help.

Quote:

Maybe he would realize that he is at rock bottom and that all the chains he perceives to be on him are of his own doing.

Many of these bums spend every waking second trying to run away from the severity and reality of their situation and life. Be it taking drugs for fleeting moments of gratification, or the search for drugs, as long as they dont have to think about how much of a fuck up they are.





Again depends on the circumstance. One could realize that one is in deep shit and decide to chance while somebody else could decide to kill himself or somebody else.
That is exactly why I sustained that specialized help can help since we need to be able to discern and analyze things from case to case.
What about those who really have no option? Who have no way real chance of changing their lives even if they want so? There cases like those too you know... What would happen in such a case, what the psychedelics dissolve all your illusions? I think that cases like these are catalysts for desperate decisions.

Quote:

I mean, if someone is at rock bottom, how much more damage could you do to them by giving them mushrooms?




Just look at irresponsible kids which take mushrooms and which have no real problems. Some of them decide to kill themselves or harm those around them. I think that the desperation a homeless and addict can have would only bring even more tragic results.
Psychedelics are not for everyone :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: Meeting a "loser" [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7030538 - 06/10/07 03:36 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Honestly, I can't answer that with any certainty....
I guess I was just regurgitating what "they" say is the most important aspect to taking a psychedelic - set and setting....

I personally have not ever had a bad trip - as other's have described....
I have had trips with passing negative physical effects, but never bad mental....
But, I have also never used a psychedelic in a less than positive mood....
Which, knowing that I am going to trip, usually puts me in a pretty good mood....  :grin:  :tongue:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Meeting a "loser" [Re: Lion]
    #7030882 - 06/10/07 05:37 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

bug said:
Don't tell Fireworks, though, he seems like the jealous type. :rolleyes: :tongue:




Jealous of myself, maybe. :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineLion
Decadent Flower Magnate
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Re: Meeting a "loser" [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7030978 - 06/10/07 06:09 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

:mad: hmph :tongue2:


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Offlinefigurine
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Re: Meeting a "loser" [Re: Lion]
    #7031219 - 06/10/07 07:18 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

This guy is going to die cold, alone, and unloved of unnatural causes. There's probably nothing that you, as an individual, can really do to improve his quality of life unless you're some exceptionally rich or connected person.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Meeting a "loser" [Re: figurine]
    #7031229 - 06/10/07 07:19 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Jesus went around helping people like that all the time, and he was neither exceptionally rich or connected, or so the fable goes... :shrug:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Meeting a "loser" [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7031316 - 06/10/07 07:48 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
a little bit of loser in all of us
how we pull it together in our own way matters to us uniquely




:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlineshakercee
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Re: Meeting a "loser" [Re: Silversoul]
    #7032303 - 06/11/07 12:56 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

If it were only easy to know other people's real motivations. In such cases, it would be best to go by experience.

And i agree with MT about not giving him mushrooms. You couldn't know for sure what this guy has been through.


--------------------
Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane

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OfflineSheerTerror
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Re: Meeting a "loser" [Re: shakercee]
    #7032345 - 06/11/07 01:20 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

why not though, might be enlightening, i once sold a quarter to a full blown schizophrenic guy

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Offlineshakercee
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Re: Meeting a "loser" [Re: SheerTerror]
    #7032375 - 06/11/07 01:40 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

And then, what happened, what was his experience?


--------------------
Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane

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OfflineSheerTerror
ST
Male


Registered: 11/28/03
Posts: 2,348
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Re: Meeting a "loser" [Re: shakercee]
    #7032400 - 06/11/07 02:00 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

he had fun with it, he was probably used of it so much, i worked with him at KFC he would get into fights with invisible people all the time, he was completly gone, the shrooms must have given him a positive

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OfflineFrenchSocialist
DarwinianLeftist

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 883
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
Re: Meeting a "loser" [Re: Silversoul]
    #7032409 - 06/11/07 02:04 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
A couple nights ago, I was talking with someone else outside of a party, when this guy strolled by on his bike, overhearing our conversation. He talked to us about his own life, with great despair in his voice. He was homeless, an alcoholic, high on meth, possibly schizophrenic(though it may have just been the meth), and a self-proclaimed "loser." He seemed to be looking for help, but did not want to accept that he was the only person who could help himself. It would easy to condemn him for being the cause of his own problems, which is true. But I prefer to view this fact from the perspective of compassion rather than condemnation. But what can a compassionate being do for someone who is so lost?




That is BS. Read my sig. I've known admirable people who run homeless shelters, and two of my friends personally helped take time to create a homeless shelter. What you are saying is what those people are doing is worthless, and a waste of time.

Seriously, you don't really need to change someone to provide a better quality of life. You just need appropriate funding for organized programs. If some meth head has a place to sleep, I don't mind paying a few pennies.


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

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OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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Re: Meeting a "loser" [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #7032527 - 06/11/07 04:11 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

so, if at any point, you want to just give up on life and become a full time addict.... it is ok? because there will always be other people who feel compelled through compassion or the relief of karmic debt will pick up your slack? Because no matter how much of a useless, degenerate you become, you can never run out of people to get pocket change from or steal from?

why do you think people become officially homeless? sure everyone here has some story about how their parents kicked them out, or they had to sleep in their car for a week, but I mean truly homeless?
It is because they shit on every single one of their friends and family, the very people who are supposed to pull your slack when you become a degenerate.
Once you have stolen enough, broken enough shit, used up enough money on bail...... that point where everyone you know washes their hands of you because time after time you have fucked them over while they break their asses trying to help you time and time again.

that is how someone becomes homeless.... usually. there is probably 1% of bums who genuinely had a bad run of luck coupled with some shitty decisions and does work hard to get their head above water and keeps having setbacks.
it isnt like it is hard to make enough money in america to keep food in your belly and a roof over a pillow.

Where is the motivation to get a job when you have people giving you money, food, and shelter? You get to make your own hours when you panhandle.

I always like the story I heard about Atlanta. I heard that they gave every homeless person in the city a non-refundable, one-way bus ticket to anywhere in the US.

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Meeting a "loser" [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #7035846 - 06/11/07 10:43 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

FrenchSocialist said:
That is BS. Read my sig. I've known admirable people who run homeless shelters, and two of my friends personally helped take time to create a homeless shelter. What you are saying is what those people are doing is worthless, and a waste of time.



It's BS that he's an alcoholic and drug addict, and that this has lead to his current circumstances? Funny, that's what he told me. I'm not making any blanket statements about homeless people, so don't put words in my mouth. I'm talking specifically about the predicament of a particular individual.


--------------------

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OfflineFrenchSocialist
DarwinianLeftist


Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 883
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
Re: Meeting a "loser" [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7036103 - 06/11/07 11:39 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
so, if at any point, you want to just give up on life and become a full time addict.... it is ok?




No, because addiction goes against an organisms long-term interests, likely causes them immediate harms, hampers their ability to form meaningful bonds with others, and is generally bad according to several recognized standards of morality, including virtue ethics, utilitarianism, and to an extent even deontological morality.

Quote:

psilocyberin said:because there will always be other people who feel compelled through compassion or the relief of karmic debt will pick up your slack?




I don't believe in karma.

Quote:

psilocyberin said:Because no matter how much of a useless, degenerate you become, you can never run out of people to get pocket change from or steal from?




If you do so it is inevitable, and I wouldn't blame you for it in the sense of thinking you made the wrong choice, however I would see such action as an indicator of immoral and untrustworthy character.

Quote:

psilocyberin said:why do you think people become officially homeless?




Quote:

The major reasons and causes for homelessness as documented by many reports and studies include:[24][25]

* Lack of affordable housing
* Low paying jobs
* Substance abuse and lack of needed services
* Mental illness and lack of needed services
* Domestic violence
* Unemployment
* Irresponsible life style
* Poverty
* Prison release and re-entry into society
* Change and cuts in public assistance
* Natural Disaster





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness


Quote:

psilocyberin said:that is how someone becomes homeless.... usually. there is probably 1% of bums who genuinely had a bad run of luck coupled with some shitty decisions and does work hard to get their head above water and keeps having setbacks.




If you are referring to the chronic homeless, even then they only account for 10% of the homeless population:

Quote:

[19]

* 80% of those who experience homelessness do so for less than 3 weeks. They typically have more personal, social, or economic resources to draw upon.
* 10% are homeless for up to two months. They cite lack of available or affordable housing as responsible for the delay.
* 10% are so called “chronic” and remain without housing for extended periods of time on a frequent basis. They typically struggle with mental illness, substance abuse, or both.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States


Quote:

psilocyberin said:it isnt like it is hard to make enough money in america to keep food in your belly and a roof over a pillow.




Well apparently it's harder to feed yourself here then in most other places in the first world:



http://people-press.org/commentary/display.php3?AnalysisID=75


And as for affordable housing:

Quote:

Housing Opportunities
There are three aspects of the current housing market that are as equally pivotal in causing homelessness:

1. Housing costs, particularly for rental housing which disproportionately affect lower income households, are rising drastically. In the five years 1999 through 2004, rental price of primary residences rose by 19% and the consumer price index (CPI-U) rose by only 13%[39]--the price of housing, in other words, is outpacing the rate of inflation. There is not a single jurisdiction in the country where a person working 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year at the prevailing minimum wage can afford a one-bedroom apartment.[40] Aside from just low wage earners, many workers cannot afford to live where they work, and even in moderately priced communities housing costs continually require a larger portion of a household’s annual income.[41]
2. Although residential construction has been robust in recent years, zoning and the implementation of rent controls has reduced the profitability of constructing low income housing. In 2003 there was a supply deficiency of 1.7 million units of housing to meet the demand of 7.7 million extremely low income (ELI) renting households.[42]
3. Government housing-assistance programs are massively over-burdened. Currently, only one-fourth of all eligible families receive any federal housing assistance due to program funding constraints,[43] and the average wait for Section 8 vouchers is 35 months.[44]





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

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OfflineFrenchSocialist
DarwinianLeftist


Registered: 08/02/06
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Re: Meeting a "loser" [Re: Silversoul]
    #7036127 - 06/11/07 11:45 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

FrenchSocialist said:
That is BS. Read my sig. I've known admirable people who run homeless shelters, and two of my friends personally helped take time to create a homeless shelter. What you are saying is what those people are doing is worthless, and a waste of time.



It's BS that he's an alcoholic and drug addict, and that this has lead to his current circumstances? Funny, that's what he told me. I'm not making any blanket statements about homeless people, so don't put words in my mouth. I'm talking specifically about the predicament of a particular individual.




Maybe there are reasons why he has engaged in substance abuse, reasons which reveal no aspect of his general character:

Quote:

Backgrounds[15]

* 23% are veterans (compared to 13% of general population).
* 25% were physically or sexually abused as children.
* 27% were in foster care or similar institutions as children.
* 21% were homeless at some point during their childhood.
* 54% were incarcerated at some point in their lives.





I mean what would you honestly do if you were homeless and had no friends and family to take you in? It's not like a lot of employers are looking for homeless people to fill job openings.


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

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Offlineporcupine
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Re: Meeting a "loser" [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7036333 - 06/12/07 01:11 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
who knows though. Even bad trips can be a catalyst for very deep, rewarding introspection.
Maybe he would realize that he is at rock bottom and that all the chains he perceives to be on him are of his own doing.





if he's a meth addict, chances are he has already tried mushrooms. in fact, i can't think of a single person i know who has used meth but not mushrooms.

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OfflineSheerTerror
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Re: Meeting a "loser" [Re: porcupine]
    #7036561 - 06/12/07 02:46 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

well mushrooms are not that commonly used, shrooms are alot harder on the mind

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