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btronson
first timegrower
Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 159
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
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substrate thickness questions
#7027932 - 06/09/07 09:29 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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ive read tek after tek and have never seen a measurment of how thick to make the substrate layer. ive seen most ppl use the aluminum baking sheets which seem to be about 2.5" thick. ive also read that the casing layer is to be .5" thick. so here are my questions:
1. so am i to assume that the substrate level should be 2" thick? 2. am i supposed to put a casing layer below the substrate as well? 3. also if i make my substrate thicker will i get larger/more flushes? 4. and lastly, what is the optimum substrate thinkness if not 2"?
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xaxphaanes
Mycologist
Registered: 08/08/05
Posts: 2,988
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: substrate thickness questions [Re: btronson]
#7027956 - 06/09/07 09:39 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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1.no i would do min 3 inches max 7 2.no casing layer goes on top of the sub 3.yes since there are more nutes and water to aid in fruit bodies 4.optimum that i have found that works really well with cubes is 5 inches.
-------------------- "Anything i say is fictional" what you should look for in manure
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jccc
just aotherhuman
Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 1,162
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
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Re: substrate thickness questions [Re: btronson]
#7027965 - 06/09/07 09:42 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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1) I am doing a straw gow and it is 8" thick, two inches is a little to small for big mushies to thrive off, but with cakes that are crumbled two inches is thick enough. 2) Yes you should 'sandwhich' the crumbled cakes between whatever your spawning to(the casing layer comes later in the grow) 3)YEP, but this goes for spawning grains to straw, poo, ext... idk ifit makes a difference with crumbled cakes but more that likly with more substarate you will get healthier fruits. 4)I used to use 2 inches. but if you were to be spawning to do a bulk grow all your looking for is a thin layer of spawn because you dont need 4 inoculation point in the same place when you could have one there and it would save spawn
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btronson
first timegrower
Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 159
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
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Re: substrate thickness questions [Re: jccc]
#7028003 - 06/09/07 09:53 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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i always forget to be as speciffic as possible. im using RR's rye tek / coffee soak variant. *confused* not to cause more debate but it seems i get alot of conflicting info from various users. ive seen a tek that cased bottom and top and ive seen some that dont. if 5 inches is the ideal thickness what do you suggest using as a container? most of the aluminum containers are 3" or under
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HippieChick
Chicks can do it too!
Registered: 02/20/05
Posts: 5,958
Loc: Midwest
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: substrate thickness questions [Re: btronson]
#7028030 - 06/09/07 09:59 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Most peeps don't recommend using aluminum foil pans .
Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony Hippie Chick
-------------------- Peace,Love and Happiness HC Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose.............. I LUV My Greenhouse http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5545848#5545848 My First Pans http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/6212058#6212058
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btronson
first timegrower
Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 159
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
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Re: substrate thickness questions [Re: HippieChick]
#7028066 - 06/09/07 10:10 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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i would assume because of some oxidation. i thought the same thing. ill look for some tupperware or something to the like i guess. can most tupperware or rubbermaid containers be autoclaved?
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xaxphaanes
Mycologist
Registered: 08/08/05
Posts: 2,988
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: substrate thickness questions [Re: btronson]
#7028087 - 06/09/07 10:13 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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alot of tupperware can but you have to get the high quality stuff and that costs a little extra oh and the reason for not using aluminum foil pans is because after the first or so flush the mycelium will start to eat through the pans lol,oh and why would you want to autoclave tuperware? i dont see the purpose ? maybe i missed something lol
<------------stoned
-------------------- "Anything i say is fictional" what you should look for in manure
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btronson
first timegrower
Registered: 05/01/07
Posts: 159
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
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Re: substrate thickness questions [Re: xaxphaanes]
#7028123 - 06/09/07 10:24 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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well i just read that this dude autoclaved everything and i figured it might not be a bad idea. i know most tupperware has the bioseal stuff. maybe ill just clean w/alcohol. it does seem a bit obsessive compulsive.
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xaxphaanes
Mycologist
Registered: 08/08/05
Posts: 2,988
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: substrate thickness questions [Re: btronson]
#7028131 - 06/09/07 10:27 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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no need to autoclave everything lol just sterilize wbs,pf,lc's,syringes thats all i use my pc for other than that it is trusty 70% alcohol
-------------------- "Anything i say is fictional" what you should look for in manure
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 29 days
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Re: substrate thickness questions [Re: xaxphaanes]
#7028218 - 06/09/07 11:03 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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If you're casing plain rye, don't go over two inches. Horse manure substrates do well in the two to four inch range. Straw does well up to ten or twelve inches. The key is that air/gasses have to be able to exchange, or the core of the substrate becomes anaerobic and the mycelium dies. No casing layer on the bottom. Casing layers go on top. With dunking/soaking teks, there is really no need for a thicker casing layer than .5 inch. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Dr_T
Random Dude
Registered: 06/03/07
Posts: 1,839
Loc: Colorado
Last seen: 16 years, 5 months
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Re: substrate thickness questions [Re: btronson]
#7028233 - 06/09/07 11:08 PM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
btronson said: it seems i get alot of conflicting info from various users.
It's a fungus. There's lots of ways to grow it. Try different things, experiment and have fun- and use what works for you. The teks are a starting point, not an end point.
Not that I have a grow to my credit- yet.
-------------------- Roger Rabbit said: Growing mushrooms is part art, and part science, but it's not magic.
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Shroomey79
Angry Scientist
Registered: 05/27/07
Posts: 129
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
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Re: substrate thickness questions [Re: RogerRabbit]
#7029111 - 06/10/07 05:07 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: If you're casing plain rye, don't go over two inches.
Is it the same recommendation for WBS or any kind of grain?
Also, what's the recommended depth for crumbled BRF cakes? I have about 18 that are going to be ready in < a week, and I don't have a big enough FC, so I may just do some casings with them.
Edited by Shroomey79 (06/10/07 05:11 AM)
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 1 year, 29 days
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Re: substrate thickness questions [Re: Shroomey79]
#7029417 - 06/10/07 08:43 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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In my experience, dunk and roll will give equal or better yields from pf cakes than crumbling and casing. I'd suggest fruiting them as cakes. If you want to crumble and spawn to manure, use the guidlines I posted above. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Blutjager
Inhuman
Registered: 06/11/06
Posts: 9,220
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Re: substrate thickness questions [Re: RogerRabbit]
#7029569 - 06/10/07 10:05 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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# 1.... I find best results with a depth of about 4 inch's,Thats 2-3 qt jars of WBS spawned to a half brick of coir in a 16 quart sweater box
#2 ....NO
#3.... No,and it actually may do more harm than good,
#4.... See #1
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hyphae
born to grow
Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: substrate thickness questions [Re: RogerRabbit]
#7029587 - 06/10/07 10:13 AM (16 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: If you're casing plain rye, don't go over two inches. Horse manure substrates do well in the two to four inch range. Straw does well up to ten or twelve inches. The key is that air/gasses have to be able to exchange, or the core of the substrate becomes anaerobic and the mycelium dies. No casing layer on the bottom. Casing layers go on top. With dunking/soaking teks, there is really no need for a thicker casing layer than .5 inch. RR
^^^^^^^^^ Don't listen to any other suggestions RR is telling it like it is! And when doing straw compressing the straw as much as possible is very important to fast colonization as well as great yields I will say 12 inches is pushing it as far as anaerobic bacteria getting a foothold but RR knows his straw logs best
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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