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 hongomon
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 opinions 
#701769 - 06/25/02 07:33 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just wondering, how do you guys form your opinions? How do you test your opinions out to be sure they're good?
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Ellis Dee
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Re: opinions [Re: hongomon]
#701849 - 06/25/02 08:12 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Generally from observations and learing about life. For instance when I met a cattle rancher from texas with a 5,000 acre rance that makes $45 per acre and the taxes he has to pay on his land are $38 an acre just from the property tax and he sold his ranch because the taxes were too damned high I learned that high taxes are bad for business. Low taxes make people prosperous and the economy grow, high taxes make people lose their farms and companies.
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"If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon
And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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 GabbaDj
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Re: opinions [Re: Ellis Dee]
#701969 - 06/25/02 09:44 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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I ask my mom.
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GabbaDj
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nugsarenice
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Re: opinions [Re: hongomon]
#702032 - 06/25/02 10:57 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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thas a a pretty general question, let's take mary j want to, as an example. I was born, then I went to school, then I met my unclen when I was 11, who has very long hair, beard, (like god, I seen pictures of god before this time) was very good at the guitar, was very funny, had a young attractive girlfriend, had the big vw bus, not the trendy one, and yeah. So then I formed an opinon that I like people with long hair,who play the guitar, and drive vw bus, cuz I don't like my parents, the petifile, murder, money oriented, etc. , so I guess you can tell where the rest went, all up to present day, where I don't really trust anyone who does'nt smoke, I do have friends who don't smoke, but they support my right of indian heritage, so we still chill, do stuff like hackeysack.
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mr freedom
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Re: opinions [Re: hongomon]
#702166 - 06/26/02 03:00 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think this is a test. If so, I didn't study.
How do I form my opinions? Rational thought, reason, with my basic premise, ALWAYS, individual liberty. I disagree with my parents with just about everything, but I bow to their, much greater, life experience than I and so I listen to them.
I abhore ignorance, especialy in myself, so I read everything that I can relating to whatever it is that I have a question on; if the FBI actually does monitor reading habits at the library then I am driving them nuts.
I listen to other people's opinions but reserve the right to reject them out of hand if they are not considerate of a rational stance. Meaning, the statement "it's my opinion and I have a right to it" is no exercise in rational consideration of any argument and I would dismiss this statement out of hand. It is a must that one consider WHERE they got their opinion, just because you have the right to have one, does not make that opinion correct.
It is also not relevant that I respect your opinion. I may respect your person, but not your ignorance, that is my right.
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Anonymous
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Re: opinions [Re: hongomon]
#716590 - 07/01/02 07:00 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have a basic moral precept which governs and colors all my opinions of political philosophy. It is this, it is wrong to initiate the use of physical force to achieve political or social goals. I couple this with an adherence to rational thought processes in an examination of the possible consequences (especially unintended consequences) that can be shown or deduced as resulting from any state policy or activity.
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Innvertigo
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Re: opinions [Re: hongomon]
#717502 - 07/02/02 07:46 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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****Just wondering, how do you guys form your opinions****
I form my opinions through common sense with a foundation structure of individual rights. If a situation presents itself whereas it contradicts this foundation then i oppose it.
****How do you test your opinions out to be sure they're good? ***
I look at things with my mind, NOT with my feelings that is how i find out if they are good. The quickest way to have your opinions faulter is to base them on your heart instead of your brain. Therefore I back up my opinions with research and basic human thought process, that sooooo many people (liberals) lack
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Rono
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Therefore I back up my opinions with research and basic human thought process, that sooooo many people (liberals) lack
That's a pretty broad not to mention extremely inaccurate statement...I've found "Liberals" to be the most intelligent people I've ever met..they are usually very well read, and up to date on world events..not just what is happening in their own city.
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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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Innvertigo
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Re: opinions [Re: Rono]
#717605 - 07/02/02 08:31 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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****I've found "Liberals" to be the most intelligent people I've ever met..they are usually very well read, and up to date on world events..not just what is happening in their own city****
Name one
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Rono
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Noam Chomsky
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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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Innvertigo
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Re: opinions [Re: Rono]
#717634 - 07/02/02 08:42 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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if he's a liberal he can't be smart..that was my point
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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nugsarenice
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you ever seen linguistic research invert?
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Innvertigo
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Re: opinions [Re: Rono]
#717643 - 07/02/02 08:45 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Innvertigo
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you're the wrong person to be discussing research you dope.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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nugsarenice
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I never seen chomsky's.
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Innvertigo
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well here's your chance you dope
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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LOBO
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Re: opinions [Re: ]
#717652 - 07/02/02 08:49 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Isak Asimove in one of his books use to say.
"The use of force or violence, is the recourse of the incompetent"
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nugsarenice
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that does'nt mention any of his linguistic studies.
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Innvertigo
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Re: opinions [Re: Rono]
#717657 - 07/02/02 08:50 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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.......Noam Chomsky, a linguist at the Massachussetts Institute of Technology, revolutionized linguistics with his innatist theory of language, but he is perhaps best known for his left wing political views. Although rarely receiving much attention from mainstream media, Chomsky is an icon on college campuses and within the radical political movement which formed from the ashes of the New Left.
There is plenty of material on the web about Chomsky, but unfortunately almost all of it is bland hero worship which ignores the fact that while Chomsky is certainly right about many things, he is wrong about numerous others and is ultimately not all that far from those he subjects to intense scrutiny and criticism.
This page contains original essays pointing out some of Chomsky?s factual errors and his tendency to not apply the same standards to the Left that he applies (for the most part correctly) to the Right........
use my link to get more
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Innvertigo
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you were dropped as a kid...weren't you?
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Rono
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I think you would be harder pressed to find an intelligent "right winger"...if your best example is Rush Limbaugh then we better just stop this debate now... 
And just for the record the link you provided would hardly be considered an impartial and unbiased web site...."Welcome to LeftWatch.Com. This main purpose of this site is to debunk claims made by Leftists" "Debunk" apparently means warping the truth to their own means...although I agree Chomsky is guilty of this as well on occasion, but he is human after all...in other words, he has flaws like anybody else...but to say that he is not intelligent would simpy be not true. He is a professor at MIT...one the most respected schools in the world...I doubt they just give that kind of position to anybody.
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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
Edited by Rono (07/02/02 09:11 AM)
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Innvertigo
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Re: opinions [Re: Rono]
#717698 - 07/02/02 09:09 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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***I think you would be harder pressed to find an intelligent "right winger"...****
why do people assume if you dispise liberals then you are a right winger? I'm a libertarian that thinks liberals and conservatives are the opposite sides of the same coin and equally useless.
It's funny how Noam Chomsky is smart until he expresses his opinion on his leftist views. It goes to show you that you can read all the books in the world and still be stupid.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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nugsarenice
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It shows you that your just bringing up other people, why don't you talk about the linguist you support, and his right wing political theory.
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Innvertigo
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****It shows you that your just bringing up other people, why don't you talk about the linguist you support****
Who said that i support a linquist you dope?
****and his right wing political theory. ****
eh?..you dope
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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nugsarenice
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I'm just saying, you slamming this left wing linguist,, you label him a linguist,, and you are trying to argue against his work, without talking about his linguistic study.
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nugsarenice
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Does he even have a linguistic study book?
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Rono
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why do people assume if you dispise liberals then you are a right winger? I'm a libertarian that thinks liberals and conservatives are the opposite sides of the same coin and equally useless.
For the same reason people assume that I am a Left Wing person...I have no politcal affiliations whatsoever...I simply stated that in General I find "Left" wing people to be highly intelligent and well read.
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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
Edited by Rono (07/02/02 09:16 AM)
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Innvertigo
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****I'm just saying, you slamming this left wing linguist****
I'm not slamming him...that web site is.
***you label him a linguist***
Are you high right now? He is a linquist you dope.
****and you are trying to argue against his work, without talking about his linguistic study. ***
Rono and I aren't discussing his linquistics ability rather his leftist stances....keep up...
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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nugsarenice
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That reading sounds way too intelligent for me. Have you read any? Which book does he talk about math?
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Innvertigo
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Re: opinions [Re: Rono]
#717732 - 07/02/02 09:22 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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***For the same reason people assume that I am a Left Wing person...I have no politcal affiliations whatsoever...I simply stated that in General I find "Left" wing people to be highly intelligent and well read. ****
I've seen quite the opposite in my observations. I see too many "enlightened" liberals and republicrates giving their opinions while there philosophical base crumbles beneath them. Being well read means nothing if you can't use common sense to make decisions. Liberals are the worst of the lot where they base every decision in their being on feelings. This is a road liberals take and those roads tend to smack right into a dead end. ie: Klinton.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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nugsarenice
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He definitely has a poltical opinion different from the two party systems', because he believes that trade embargos are the wrong way towards world peace, and stopping war.
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Innvertigo
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****That reading sounds way too intelligent for me****
you don't say....
****Have you read any? Which book does he talk about math? ****
I haven't the will nor interest. Liberals don't inspire me in the least...
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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luvdemshrooms
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Innvertigo....
Trying to get a sensible response from nugs, is like trying to pull a full grown elephant out of a newborn baby?s ass. It just can't be done.
At least with Rono, while his opinions and view of the world are ludicrous at best, he at least can express them well and he writes a coherent sentence.
Thanks for the link on Chomsky, I?d seen some of his crap but to see so much of it in one place was amazingly informative.
Nugs, give up drugs for awhile, they?re not helping.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Innvertigo
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***Trying to get a sensible response from nugs, is like trying to pull a full grown elephant out of a newborn baby?s ass***
true..i still don't know why i try....i wonder if it is our education system?
****At least with Rono, while his opinions and view of the world are ludicrous at best, he at least can express them well and he writes a coherent sentence****
true, and we haven't got personal with the insults, however i can't help but rip on nugs..he needs it
****Thanks for the link on Chomsky****
I think there should be a disclaimer when someone is perceived to be smart. Yes he's book smart but he's in the shallow end of the gene pool when it comes to common sense.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Rono
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At least with Rono, while his opinions and view of the world are ludicrous at best, he at least can express them well and he writes a coherent sentence.
Luvdemshrooms, Although I appreciate the fact that you like my sentence structure...It would seem that a large percentage of the worlds population agree with my "ludicrous" views...considering you aren't exposed to anything outside of the heavily censored U.S. media, your opinion of me carries little weight.
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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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Innvertigo
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Re: opinions [Re: Rono]
#717925 - 07/02/02 11:09 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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why do those that live outside the US always think that they are enlightened by their media? If you listen to the BBC it's just as trashy as CNN....
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Rono
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Perhaps it is...but considering the U.S is censored, you need to rely on the media from the other countries for information on what the U.S. is REALLY like, since CNN won't broadcast anything that is "Anti-American". It's a sad fact, but it is true.
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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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nugsarenice
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Re: opinions [Re: Rono]
#717958 - 07/02/02 11:30 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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The way I feel about corporate media is that is sometimes privately hijacked to promote ideas outside of what the corporation expects. Take for an example a small radio station that got bought out last year. They broadcasted the Nader, and Ventura interviews, no other station got that. But after it happened they were bought out, so that was a one time occurence. So now the only way to find out about these people is on the internet.
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Innvertigo
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Re: opinions [Re: Rono]
#718047 - 07/02/02 12:28 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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That's why i don't get my information from CNN...but to say that CNN is any more useless than Canadian or the ever popular socialist slanted french media is absurd. As for CNN never being anti american that couldn't be further from the truth..you should know that.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Anonymous
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Re: opinions [Re: Rono]
#718112 - 07/02/02 01:20 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think you would be harder pressed to find an intelligent "right winger"
There are quite a few, but they tend to be more libertarian than what is commonly passed off on the public as "conservative" these days. William F. Buckley is fairly intelligent. Milton Friedman is a Nobel Prize winner. The governor of New Mexico, Gary Johnson seems pretty intelligent.
I used to attend a local libertarian supper club in my area. The first time I had a friend go along with me, he noticed people's college rings on their fingers at our table, there were two graduates of MIT and one from Cal Tech seated with us. One of the founders of the Libertarian Party, David Nolan is a graduate of MIT. Robert Poole who used to edit Reason magazine is a graduate of MIT. Durk Pearson who my wife met at a libertarian function, graduated from MIT with a degree in physics and enough extra credits for degrees in biology and psychology as well. I would be willing to wager any amount of money that the average I.Q. of Libertarians is higher than that of Democrats, Republicans, Socialists, Greens, Reform Party members, Natural Law Party members or Communists.
Edited by Evolving (07/02/02 01:25 PM)
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luvdemshrooms
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Re: opinions [Re: ]
#718161 - 07/02/02 01:49 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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In reply to:
I think you would be harder pressed to find an intelligent "right winger"
To "their" way of thinking, intelligent means someone whos views are in lock-step with theirs.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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luvdemshrooms
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Re: opinions [Re: Rono]
#718168 - 07/02/02 01:56 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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In reply to:
considering you aren't exposed to anything outside of the heavily censored U.S. media, your opinion of me carries little weight.
For you to assume I only read and watch US based news is both foolish, and more than a little pompous.
I venture to say that I do far more reading and thinking than the average person.
As to the "large percentage" agreeing with your views... that only re-enforces my view of the sorry state of most peoples minds. The simple fact that many, perhaps even the majority, think along the same lines as you carries no weight whatsoever. If there are ten fools in a room and one intelligent person, it does not have to follow that the ten fools are correct. It simply means that there are ten fools.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
Edited by luvdemshrooms (07/02/02 01:58 PM)
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hongomon
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Alright, I propose a truce in the "who's smarter than who" debate.
Innvertigo, you say,
"I form my opinions through common sense with a foundation structure of individual rights."
I'm not exactly sure what the latter part of that is driving at, but as for "common sense," what makes you sure your common sense is reliable? If you rely on your common sense, and I rely on mine, yet we have completely opposing opinions, it is likely that at least one of us has been misled by our common sense. We may even both agree that we must be divorced from our emotions to make sound judgements, and we may have both been successful to do so. And yet, we entirely disagree.
Ultimately we can agree to disagree (maybe that's what you're referring to up there?), but it still reveals that our concept of common sense is subject to the same question as the one I asked regarding our forming of opinions.
So I'm looking for something more fundamental.
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mrfreedom
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Re: opinions [Re: hongomon]
#718553 - 07/02/02 05:34 PM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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Geez Hongomon, I am sorry your thread turned into such a damn mess, including your two posts, there are a total of 7 that even mention how they form their opinions.
As to your assertation of "common sense" I have to agree. While Vert and myself, allowing that we hold as our basic premise that of individual liberty, we would most assuredly have the same view's when we say "common sense". To make a general statement, some persons, that would purport to want to "help people" would support the usage of taxes for those less fortunate than others. These people, when asked, would be most enthusiastic about their belief that "helping others", with the use of taxes, would lead to utopia, and, in their view it would only be "common sense".
Of course, they would be wrong, but that is irrelevant. The problem of their opinions is that they have not set forth a set of moral premises that acknowledge the importance of individual liberty, nor personal responsibility. While I agree, believe it or not, that helping others is a fine endeavor, and brings value to those helped and those helping, it begs the question of "common sense". For one, to help others does NOT require TAKING from anybody, this, it would seem, flies in the face of the afformentioned "common sense" argument.
Where am I going with this? Simply put, while there may be different views and definitions of "common sense" one need to do very little to show that some opinion's of "common sense" are horribly lacking the "sense" part of that statement. This is the reason that I tend to reject any argument that some must agree to disagree. Some people are simply wrong, they recognize this, admit to it, and follow it up with something ignorant like, well that's my OPINION.
Your question is excellent, I use it all the time. I often ask those with differing view than myself to explain how they came to the opinion they hold. It is often, privately, enjoyable to myself to see them squirm around with that question.
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Jammer
Computers areMORE Addictive!
Registered: 11/04/00
Posts: 3,998
Loc: (God's Country) - USA
Last seen: 18 years, 9 days
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RE: "Liberals are the worst of the lot where they base every decision in their being on feelings."
I guess that I'm a mixed-breed then.....
I base MY (voting) decisions on someything as stupid as MONEY.
Thats why I'm NOT a conservative. In my current salary bracket I would be an indiot to be fool heartly brainwashed into voting for someone that does not relate to my life.
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>>Jammer>>
Edited by Jammer (07/02/02 06:54 PM)
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: opinions [Re: hongomon]
#720251 - 07/03/02 11:29 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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****"I form my opinions through common sense with a foundation structure of individual rights."
I'm not exactly sure what the latter part of that is driving at, but as for "common sense," ****
What i mean is that in order for my "common sense" to be valid it must not violate individual liberty ie: a philosophical base. My common sense is based on something concrete, unlike others who presume that common sense is as fluid as the liberals interpretation of our constitution....
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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Innvertigo
Vote Libertarian!!
Registered: 02/08/01
Posts: 16,296
Loc: Crackerville, Michigan U...
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Re: opinions [Re: Jammer]
#720261 - 07/03/02 11:33 AM (21 years, 3 months ago) |
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***I base MY (voting) decisions on someything as stupid as MONEY. ****
basing your decision to vote on money is not stupid as you presume. Money is not feelings and can be quantified....feelings can't.
****Thats why I'm NOT a conservative. In my current salary bracket I would be an indiot to be fool heartly brainwashed into voting for someone that does not relate to my life. ****
I like this argument because with it you presume that every rich person is conservative when all one has to do is look at the hollywood elite socialists to know that this way of thinking is flawed....for example a majority of the millionares in government (house and senate) are liberals.
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America....FUCK YEAH!!!
Words of Wisdom: Individual Rights BEFORE Collective Rights
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson
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