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InvisibletrendalM
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Registered: 04/17/01
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Re: Something about evolution... [Re: daytripper23]
    #7015739 - 06/06/07 02:04 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Well as trendal put it, trees are not a far cry from algae or bacteria in their processes. Then take into consideration that plant life has been around longer than animal life (I think?). What have plants been doing all this time, getting bigger??? We are always looking for evolution in our own terms, (like consciousness), so maybe there is alot more to plants than we think there is.




Well I wouldn't say there is a lot more...but there is certainly some. How plants use chemical signals for communication is one field that I think is pretty ripe.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
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Re: Something about evolution... [Re: daytripper23]
    #7015740 - 06/06/07 02:04 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

If you truly want to be a stickler even that is relative.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
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Re: Something about evolution... [Re: daytripper23]
    #7015744 - 06/06/07 02:05 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Yes. How can I assume that you or me even exist. This is all meaningless until we establish the reality that we are taking part in. Lets talk about this for the rest of the thread, instead of talking about anything at all meaningful :rolleyes:

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OfflineFocusHawaii
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Registered: 12/27/02
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Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Something about evolution... [Re: daytripper23] * 1
    #7015752 - 06/06/07 02:07 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Well as trendal put it, trees are not a far cry from algae or bacteria in their processes.

Trendal was using algae as a link between protists and plants, a counter-point to the idea that plants just leaped onto the earth.

What have plants been doing all this time, getting bigger???

Species don't have to continue evolving once they're dominant because they're not fighting for resources. But if the environment changes then a shift in the species will occur in order to adapt. This is punctuated equilibrium.

We are always looking for evolution in our own terms, (like consciousness), so maybe there is alot more to plants than we think there is.

Not really, we consider flight an evolutionary adaptation. It's pretty easy to see evolutionary traits, they use them to survive :P.

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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Something about evolution... [Re: daytripper23]
    #7015780 - 06/06/07 02:13 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

If you haven't noticed your the one determining the course of action in this thread through your statements.

So I take it your going to ignore your previous statement... you know it is possible to carry on multiple conversations at once and ultimately i think that this will better help with your understanding of evolution. You need a point of refrence in order to establish just where your comming from, i'm just attempting to clarify exactly why you feel that way as it influences how you think, and ultimately better helps me understand how to explain this to you.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc: Flag
Re: Something about evolution... [Re: FocusHawaii]
    #7015782 - 06/06/07 02:14 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Trendal was using algae as a link between protists and plants, a counter-point to the idea that plants just leaped onto the earth.

this is the point im trying to make. To us plant evolution hasnt really "accomplished" much, in terms of things that we find significant or interesting. But you have clearly established that you find nothing significant so i guess you really dont have an opinion on this. Or wait, did you mean everything is significant? :lol:

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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: Something about evolution... [Re: daytripper23]
    #7015793 - 06/06/07 02:17 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Plants have accomplished much more then you think all depends on how you want to view it. Many plants have humans the most sentient and self righteous creature on earth caring for them, protecting them, and breeding them, genetically adapting them, ultimately being the babysitter so to speak of their evolution. Thats quite an accomplishment to make a dominate species so dependant.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFocusHawaii
Keeper of theMagic Garden

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 1,013
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Something about evolution... [Re: Psychoactive1984] * 1
    #7015813 - 06/06/07 02:22 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Plants have accomplished quite a bit:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_evolution

Many significant changes have occured in plants. Light cycles, photosynthesis etc.

Your point on significance is baffling me though. You were saying things like culture, art etc. were signs of a "leap" from other animals, I said they were no different from a dog's ability to shed. Merely, different paths of evolution. I never said they weren't significant, but that you were inferring too much from them and that every organism could have similar "leaps". Maybe I mistook what you meant by a leap? Of course there's a significant difference culture and dog hair.

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc: Flag
Re: Something about evolution... [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #7015817 - 06/06/07 02:23 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

If you haven't noticed your the one determining the course of action in this thread through your statements.

So I take it your going to ignore your previous statement... you know it is possible to carry on multiple conversations at once and ultimately i think that this will better help with your understanding of evolution. You need a point of refrence in order to establish just where your comming from, i'm just attempting to clarify exactly why you feel that way as it influences how you think, and ultimately better helps me understand how to explain this to you.




Do you think that every philosophical debate should be built from the ground up? We cant talk about EVERYTHING all the time. Assumptions must be made in every philosophical debate.

Ok?

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OfflineFocusHawaii
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Re: Something about evolution... [Re: daytripper23] * 1
    #7015831 - 06/06/07 02:27 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Anybody ever wonder if there is some great evolutionary leap for plants, sort of like the great leap to humanity?




Here we go, the idea that one evolutionary trait is greater than another. Objectively, they're only adaptations and can't have a higher value then another. But in terms of survival, they most certainly can.

Edited by FocusHawaii (06/06/07 02:28 PM)

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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Registered: 02/06/05
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Re: Something about evolution... [Re: daytripper23]
    #7015846 - 06/06/07 02:30 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

... I think you should try to make sense and be able to explain yourself beyond making statements that you won't even bother to back up. I'm just trying to facilitate an understanding :shrug:

I don't see why your being so difficult. Around here in this forum we explain ourselves we don't just cast one assumption after another without any merit and call it the process of debate. If you want your views to go uncontested go to Mysticism Paranormal, Religion and the Paranormal.

Ok?


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Male

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc: Flag
Re: Something about evolution... [Re: FocusHawaii]
    #7015856 - 06/06/07 02:34 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Maybe I mistook what you meant by a leap?

To say that Evolution can move in leaps and bounds, would assume that it would have to be somehow measured. And my method of measuring it is completely subjective.

It could be measured quantitvely: A dog shed every single hair on his body! WOW 100% of its hairs. Fantastic! This is an amazing evolutionary feat!

Or it could be measured qualitively: through the subjective world of art and culture: Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon is an amazing production stemming from mans ability to create art.

Qualitive is what I was more taking into consideration, and even the most logical of us has these desires and values within us. This is what I was referring to when i mentioned something "significant" in regaurds to a leap.

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OfflineFocusHawaii
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Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 1,013
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Something about evolution... [Re: daytripper23]
    #7015866 - 06/06/07 02:37 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Unfortunately for your inquiry, evolution doesn't work in terms of qualitative...

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc: Flag
Re: Something about evolution... [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #7015867 - 06/06/07 02:37 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Psychoactive: what if everytime you were trying to philosophize, about anything at all, someone jumped in and said

"There is no proof that anything or anybody exists, and before you say anything else, you must establish and prove existance."

You get my point? If we never assumed, nothing would ever get accomplished!

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
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Re: Something about evolution... [Re: FocusHawaii]
    #7015874 - 06/06/07 02:39 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Sure it does. Art is a product of evolution.

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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Registered: 02/06/05
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Re: Something about evolution... [Re: daytripper23]
    #7015876 - 06/06/07 02:41 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Ok, well thats easily countered. So i'm not really seeing your point.

So your attempting to justify your statement on the basis of assumption rather then explaining it to me?

Here try this on. What if someoone was discussing something and made an utterly ridiculous claim and then rather then approaches the problem attempts to sidetrack it?


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineFocusHawaii
Keeper of theMagic Garden

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 1,013
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 12 years, 7 months
Re: Something about evolution... [Re: daytripper23]
    #7015878 - 06/06/07 02:41 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

A product of evolution, specifically man's desires and psychology (things that have real evoltuionary roots), not actual evolution.

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Invisibledaytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc: Flag
Re: Something about evolution... [Re: daytripper23]
    #7015879 - 06/06/07 02:41 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Ok Psychoactive, because this thread is so off topic anyway, Ill answer your question. What is it?

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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: Something about evolution... [Re: daytripper23]
    #7015881 - 06/06/07 02:42 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

So qualitative in respects to subjectivity or to functionality?


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibledaytripper23
?
Male

Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc: Flag
Re: Something about evolution... [Re: FocusHawaii]
    #7015883 - 06/06/07 02:43 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Ok Ok, let me clarify mans ability to create art.

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