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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
The Soul And The Monster
    #7003360 - 06/03/07 03:45 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I've been told that even though there is no evidence for the existence of God, the anecdotal evidence from those who have intangible knowledge of him is enough to form a belief and even make life changing decisions.

In other words, no one has ever seen, photographed, captured, measured, weighed, or chemically analyzed God, but they have some vague feeling, or drugged out experience, or dream or [fill in the subjective blank] and despite the non-evidence, they believe with certainty.

What about the Flying Spaghetti Monster who, just like for god, some people have professed intangible knowledge of.

Why do so many people believe in God, but so few believe in the FSM. Is this some kind of religious bigotry? I mean, in the end, both are similar implausible concepts, both have no supporting objective evidence, and both have proponents who claim to have a mystical link.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Diploid]
    #7003378 - 06/03/07 03:51 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

If I should happen to experience his noodly presence first-hand, I'll be sure to pray to him.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Silversoul]
    #7003409 - 06/03/07 03:57 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I think assigning high confidence to a highly subjective thing such as 'experiencing God' to such an extent that you allow it to frame your life philosophy is a mistake.

Humans are very good at kidding themselves, especially when they want something to be true. If I didn't know this, I might let subjective experience guide my outlook more, but I know all humans are gullible suckers and always have been. We can be fooled by ourselves as easily as by a someone selling snake oil.

I'm always on guard against both possibilities.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Diploid]
    #7003437 - 06/03/07 04:02 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I think assigning high confidence to a highly subjective thing such as 'experiencing God' to such an extent that you allow it to frame your life philosophy is a mistake.



I think assigning high confidence to anyone else's interpretation of reality is an equally big mistake. To be honest, I don't believe 100% in my experiences. I just consider them to be part of my reality tunnel, and I'm following them where they lead me. I've found it's lead to a much more fulfilling and meaningful life than shutting out any experience that some infallible authority called "science" hasn't put into its official canon yet.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Silversoul]
    #7003448 - 06/03/07 04:05 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Why do you pick on science like that? Science says nothing one way or another about mystical experiences.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Diploid]
    #7003456 - 06/03/07 04:09 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Why do you pick on science like that? Science says nothing one way or another about mystical experiences.



Well, there's science in theory and science in practice. In practice, scientists can be as dogmatic as the pope or Pat Robertson. My real beef is with what I call "Scientism": The belief that if science has not confirmed something, it is not worth considering.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Silversoul]
    #7003537 - 06/03/07 04:30 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

In practice, scientists can be as dogmatic as the pope or Pat Robertson.

Well, this is true, but they're not doing science at that point.

The belief that if science has not confirmed something, it is not worth considering.

For the record, and despite appearances, I don't buy into that idea. :wink:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Diploid]
    #7003580 - 06/03/07 04:42 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I think to state that there is nothing mystical about this universe, is kind of like saying we are the only sentient beings in this universe.
As far as the average person goes, or scientist for that matter, there is no more proof for ET's than God or such.
An argument can be made that there is just so much universe and how we know basically nothing beyond our solar system outside of knowing which gases a planet has on it or a star is burning.... but the human experience is as infinite as the universe..... but I am willing to bet that the majority of scientists or self-proclaimed logiscians would pick to believe in aliens over the possibility of mystical experiences.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #7003643 - 06/03/07 05:00 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

there is no more proof for ET's than God or such

But there is evidence that life arose in at least one place. There is also evidence that the conditions in that one place exist in other places. So it's reasonable to conclude that there probably is life elsewhere.

Not so for God. Like the FSM, God has never been seen anywhere.

how we know basically nothing beyond our solar system outside of knowing which gases a planet has on it or a star is burning

This isn't true. The gas composition of stars can be determined from the star's spectra. Transmission spectra can be used to glean the atmospheric composition of planets surrounding those stars. Extrapolation can be used to guide the hypothesis that if at least SOME nearby extrasolar planets similar to Earth exist, there are likely many others too far for us to see at the moment.

This is the difference between science and irrational mystical belief in something not in evidence and in which others hold contradicting beliefs based on the same evidence.

Even when scientists come to different conclusions based on the same evidence, the disparity is temporary. As more evidence is found leaning one way or another, other scientists realize their beliefs must have been wrong in light of the new evidence.

Not so for mystical beliefs. They are static, like dogma.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Diploid]
    #7003885 - 06/03/07 06:13 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I've been told that even though there is no evidence for the existence of God, the anecdotal evidence from those who have intangible knowledge of him is enough to form a belief and even make life changing decisions.

In other words, no one has ever seen, photographed, captured, measured, weighed, or chemically analyzed God, but they have some vague feeling, or drugged out experience, or dream or [fill in the subjective blank] and despite the non-evidence, they believe with certainty.

What about the Flying Spaghetti Monster who, just like for god, some people have professed intangible knowledge of.

Why do so many people believe in God, but so few believe in the FSM. Is this some kind of religious bigotry? I mean, in the end, both are similar implausible concepts, both have no supporting objective evidence, and both have proponents who claim to have a mystical link.




Man has created God in his own image. Therefore only Italians would consider the FSM as a suitable image for God. Since Italians never use psychedelics, there are none here to take up the FSM cause. But if you ever travel to Italy you will find many statues of him/her/it in the cathedrals there. (Or so I've heard)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Icelander]
    #7003911 - 06/03/07 06:20 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I got it! God is a flying Arroz con Pollo! :yesnod:

It's a Cuban dish for the culturally challenged.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Diploid]
    #7003920 - 06/03/07 06:22 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I would love to partake of the eucharist.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Icelander]
    #7003931 - 06/03/07 06:24 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I surmise that the only real "proof" of God's existence would involve meeting him face-to-face.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Mr.Al]
    #7003939 - 06/03/07 06:25 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

Him?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Icelander]
    #7003944 - 06/03/07 06:25 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I like my God more like arroz con leche.  Mmm.  Cinnamon.:cheers:


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Offlinenolongerinuse
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7003962 - 06/03/07 06:28 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

The best proof of god is existence itslef.

How else could there be all 'this'...?


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: nolongerinuse]
    #7003995 - 06/03/07 06:35 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

So, you're saying all of this couldn't exist without a creator, God.

So, who created God? How else could God exist? :rolleyes:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Mr.Al]
    #7004015 - 06/03/07 06:37 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

yes...


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Mr.Al]
    #7004032 - 06/03/07 06:40 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

I would say that the only thing that could have created GOD was lots and lots of DRUGS!


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OfflineMr.Al
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Mr.Al]
    #7004062 - 06/03/07 06:43 PM (14 years, 6 months ago)

God as a product of evolution and drugs being the catalyst for learning how to perceive in a different fashion and through understanding gained through altered perception have total (all) power over his environment (reality!). But that's just the drugs talking.


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