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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Diploid]
    #7004077 - 06/03/07 06:45 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I got it! God is a flying Arroz con Pollo! :yesnod:

It's a Cuban dish for the culturally challenged.




What about the vegetarian's God?  Perhaps Arroz con Tempeh?  :lol:


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Veritas]
    #7004091 - 06/03/07 06:48 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

God is NOT vegetarian. I experienced this and know it 100% for a fact! :noway:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Diploid]
    #7004097 - 06/03/07 06:49 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

It's a good thing I'm not religious, then.  :smirk:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Veritas]
    #7004117 - 06/03/07 06:52 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

i have a chicken deficiency


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7004144 - 06/03/07 06:57 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Perhaps you could take "communion" at Diploid's church?  :lol:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Mr.Al]
    #7004599 - 06/03/07 08:59 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
I would say that the only thing that could have created GOD was lots and lots of DRUGS!




:tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Mr.Al]
    #7004604 - 06/03/07 09:00 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Al said:
God as a product of evolution and drugs being the catalyst for learning how to perceive in a different fashion and through understanding gained through altered perception have total (all) power over his environment (reality!).  But that's just the drugs talking.




:tongue::tongue::crazy2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Silversoul]
    #7004695 - 06/03/07 09:18 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
I think assigning high confidence to anyone else's interpretation of reality is an equally big mistake.  To be honest, I don't believe 100% in my experiences.  I just consider them to be part of my reality tunnel, and I'm following them where they lead me.  I've found it's lead to a much more fulfilling and meaningful life than shutting out any experience that some infallible authority called "science" hasn't put into its official canon yet.




Quote:

Silversoul said:
Well, there's science in theory and science in practice.  In practice, scientists can be as dogmatic as the pope or Pat Robertson.  My real beef is with what I call "Scientism":  The belief that if science has not confirmed something, it is not worth considering.




Nice....    :thumbup:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Diploid]
    #7004860 - 06/03/07 09:49 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Its just a discordian trick to lure you off the trail and to fool you into not even believing in Eris the one and only god among the gods.

I agree with Silversoul in way of scientists being overly dogmatic, attempting to force feed people on the basis of all their work, however i do tend to give them more merit then the pope as they at least attempt to dispose of their dogma with a more ritualistic approach to logic (of course not all of them).... however before just discounting god, just ask yourself who and or what created everything, where all the base material began.... it matters not what you directly believe in, whether the big bang, or some other cosmological theory, or on the basis of parallel universes. It leads you to the conclusion through the use of our logic that everything had to come from something as that is just our capacity to reason, or everything existed for all time with no beginning and therefore no end (more on a tangent line of thought and cyclical logic)... It also begets the question of the gods for the gods paradigm wherein god is created by god, by a god, by a god ad infinitum, which only predisposes the situation in its entirity to the oriiginal god of gods, which only further ensnares logic.

Either way thats where god lies, whatever else you attribute to his nature such as being male, or if they procreate with humans, or being the sole province for morality etc... is up to you and relatively pointless and mere speculation without evidence. (just my opinion) a hat is a hat till you begin talking about its life history, where its been, where its traveled etc... the main point is that we tend to add superfluous details that are merely assumed on the basis of experience and that where all the trouble tends to begin as we travel through logical loopholes that we can't even concede to logic as it exists in our daily lives and bend our rational to suit our tastes.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Edited by Psychoactive1984 (06/03/07 10:04 PM)


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Invisiblekaiowas
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Diploid]
    #7006553 - 06/04/07 08:53 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I've been told that even though there is no evidence for the existence of God, the anecdotal evidence from those who have intangible knowledge of him is enough to form a belief and even make life changing decisions.

In other words, no one has ever seen, photographed, captured, measured, weighed, or chemically analyzed God, but they have some vague feeling, or drugged out experience, or dream or [fill in the subjective blank] and despite the non-evidence, they believe with certainty.

What about the Flying Spaghetti Monster who, just like for god, some people have professed intangible knowledge of.

Why do so many people believe in God, but so few believe in the FSM. Is this some kind of religious bigotry? I mean, in the end, both are similar implausible concepts, both have no supporting objective evidence, and both have proponents who claim to have a mystical link.




People believe in god because they have been told that god exists. whether god exists is debatable...the absence of something does not imply that it does not exist.

you think what you want, religious people think what they want. you are no more correct than they are, and both assumptions operate under the same line of thinking; that is, you believe that your way of viewing the world is correct. you were told to think this way, and so you do, just like religious people were told to think one way and they did. maybe you got more than one perspective, and maybe they did too, but you still took in some form of thinking as the 'correct way to be'

so how are you different? you operate on one set of ideas while religious people operate on another set of ideas. Ideas are learnt, it doesn't necessarily make them true.

let me put it this way, do you feel that your way of thinking is 100% correct?


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: kaiowas]
    #7006582 - 06/04/07 09:07 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

so how are you different?

I form beliefs through critical thought and study of available evidence. Believers just believe. Indeed, some believe in demonstrably false things (like prayer healing) yet despite the fact that it doesn't work, they believe anyway.

That's how we're different. Although the question of God's existence currently cannot be answered, the question of prayer healing can and has been.

let me put it this way, do you feel that your way of thinking is 100% correct?

Don't be silly. Of course not, and I've said as much in several posts.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblekaiowas
lest we baguette
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Diploid]
    #7006627 - 06/04/07 09:34 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

"I form beliefs through critical thought and study of available evidence."


And my statement again resides on that 'form' of thought.  you have critical thought based on evidence done through extensive research.  keep in mind, that's how I form my beliefs as well.  However, this does not translate into a belief that critical thought and study of available evidence is the only 'correct' way to trust in something.

and here's why...

too many times we as humans use logic and critical analysis to develop our way of understanding the world.  Now maybe the process of logic is not correct, but having full trust to the point that you disregard an idea that has no physical evidence is falling into the same line of thinking that 'religious' people have.  why?  it is because we as humans do not and cannot know everything about the world.  Many times we come about towards conclusion that later on are not correct because we did not know all of the information. If you have ruled out the existence of a monotheistic god, then you are trusting fully in your own way of thinking which holds just as much weight as any other belief. 

you ask why do people believe in god more than the spaghetti monster.  it's easy, because more people have been told to think this way.  Going along my same point, you and I have also been told that critical thinking based on empirical evidence is the only way to develop trust. We chose to take that in as the way to carry out our lives, just like  christians do. 

whether you base it on empirical evidence, or a gut feeling, we really are not that different.  I sometimes think that believing in these differences can lead to assumptions about others which might not be there to begin with.

does that makes sense to you or should I try putting it in another way..note I'm not trying to be condescending here :laugh:


--------------------
Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: kaiowas]
    #7006876 - 06/04/07 11:45 AM (14 years, 4 months ago)

you are no more correct than they are,

I think it would be correct to say instead. "You can't know if you are more correct than they are". One or the other might be more correct. We just may never know.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Diploid]
    #7007117 - 06/04/07 12:57 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
I form beliefs through critical thought and study of available evidence. Believers just believe.




Don't make it sound so baseless....!
Some believers critically believe based on subjective/personal evidence/experience....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Diploid]
    #7007742 - 06/04/07 03:28 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

It is, because the kind of people you describe and who averse god like a spaghetti monster have a much more stiff, straight, described and defined view of what GOD should be to refuse G*D, than those who believe in and experience(d) what g*d might be.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: kaiowas]
    #7007865 - 06/04/07 03:54 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

whether you base it on empirical evidence, or a gut feeling, we really are not that different.




Nonsense. We ALWAYS communicate here using LOGIC-BASED devices. You travel in a LOGIC-BASED device. You eat food farmed using LOGIC-BASED methods. Your domicile was constructed using LOGIC-BASED devices and methods.

How can the logician be more certain that his views are correct? They work.

How can the logician be more certain that hunches and gut-feelings are unreliable? Because Las Vegas thrives on such self-delusion and myriad pyschological studies have born this out.

How can the logician be more certain that his view of the Cosmos is more correct? It is called 'history'. Every paranormal claim that can be tested has been tested and failed.

What about myth and religion? Simple. Many myths and beliefs that people were 100% CERTAIN of, have been dispelled for all time. Many religions that people were certain of - have zero credence today.

Sorry, the logician is much more grounded and the believer is stuck in an ephemeral flight of fancy. Their mindsets are not even vaguely similar.


--------------------


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7007920 - 06/04/07 04:04 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Is there such thing as an artistic logician?? Or a logic artist??


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: backfromthedead]
    #7008294 - 06/04/07 05:15 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Yes there isn't.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Icelander]
    #7008444 - 06/04/07 05:48 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

:blazed:


--------------------


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Offlinehummermania00
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Re: The Soul And The Monster [Re: Diploid]
    #7008464 - 06/04/07 05:52 PM (14 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
so how are you different?

I form beliefs through critical thought and study of available evidence. Believers just believe. Indeed, some believe in demonstrably false things (like prayer healing) yet despite the fact that it doesn't work, they believe anyway.

That's how we're different. Although the question of God's existence currently cannot be answered, the question of prayer healing can and has been.

let me put it this way, do you feel that your way of thinking is 100% correct?

Don't be silly. Of course not, and I've said as much in several posts.




Let me inject a thought or 2 here.
1. it seems to me that there has always existed 2 dichotomous thought process in humans; one that is entirely logically based, and one that is non logic concept based. Where did this come from?
I can imagine that some humans, say 30,000 years ago, traveling in a group or tribe, lose a companion.

The logical group might say: "well, that's it for Grunt, he's gone, end of story. Bye!

The non logical mind might sit around the fire wondering what happens to Grunt now? Will I ever see him again? Will he need his spear and flint where he is going? This can't be all there is to Grunt and existence.

The point is, beliefs are powerful mental projections that can make no sense at all to some, and be the very core of existence for others.
If a belief does not make sense, so what? Has it hurt anyone anymore than the same twisted desecration of other humans that non-believers have imposed and executed? I think not.

People will believe in whatever resonates with their particular sense of proprietary, whether it is logical or not. It is not for the logical mind to dismiss and ridicule the non-logical.

The question of whether God exists in fact is immaterial. What matters is what appeals and drives acceptance of belief or non-belief to the individual.


--------------------
You are a fortunate person indeed, if you can begin each day accepting the fact that during that day there will be ups and downs, good breaks and bad ones, disappointments, surprises, and unexpected turns of events.

When you have solved all the mysteries of life you long for death, for it is but another mystery of life.


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