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OfflineFrenchSocialist
DarwinianLeftist

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 883
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
Re: Architects & engineers for 911 truth [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7010569 - 06/05/07 12:45 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
They aren't "beginning" to distrust the government. It has been that way for my entire life and I have reason to believe it rather predates even my fossilized self. For a similar phenomenon see this:
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=25751&only&rsssmall

Quote:

A new survey of British Muslims by Channel 4 shows that nearly 60% believe that Muslims were not responsible for the 7/7 London bombings—and nearly a quarter believe the UK government was behind them.







I said many were beginning to distrust the government. And many more people are beginning to distrust our government now, then in the past, due to the recent displays of dishonesty and incompetence.

From pew research:



Quote:

Distrust of the Federal Government Rises


Just as views of Congress have become somewhat more negative, so too have opinions about the federal government. About a third (34%) say they think they can trust the government in Washington to do what's right "just about always" or "most of the time," while 65% say they trust the government "only sometimes" or "never." This is nearly identical to opinion last September, and is much more negative than in the aftermath of the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. In the first two months following 9/11, surveys showed very high levels of trust.

Despite the rise in government distrust, Americans are not as negative about the government in Washington as they were during the mid-1990s, nor has disgruntlement reached the levels seen in the late 1970s when economic and foreign policy problems weighed on the public.

The ratings today are similar to those seen during Bill Clinton's second term in office. In February 1998, 34% said they trusted the government always or most of the time. But the partisan patterns are very different today. Now, a majority of 55% of Republicans trust the federal government at least most of the time, compared with just 27% in 1998. For Democrats, the numbers are nearly reversed: 21% trust government today; 44% did so in 1998.

A similar pattern is seen in another measure of trust in government. Half of the current poll's respondents (50%) said they now have an unfavorable opinion of the federal government in Washington, while 43% are favorable. In November 2001, 82% had a favorable opinion.

Today's favorable ratings for the government are slightly higher than in 1997 when 38% were positive and 59% were negative. As with trust in government, the big difference between 1997 and today is that Republicans are much happier with the government and Democrats much less happy. In 1997, two-thirds (66%) of Republicans said they had an unfavorable opinion of the government (with 32% favorable), while Democrats were divided evenly (50% favorable, 47% unfavorable). Today, the vast majority of Republicans have a favorable opinion of the government (72%), compared with just 29% of Democrats.








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"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

Edited by FrenchSocialist (06/05/07 01:26 AM)

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OfflineFrenchSocialist
DarwinianLeftist

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 883
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
Re: Architects & engineers for 911 truth [Re: minesstudent]
    #7010596 - 06/05/07 12:58 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

minesstudent said:
One of your points is that the government says the jet fuel melted the steel.





I never said that. I was referring to the 9/11 truth argument that jet fuel wouldn't have created a hot enough fire to melt steel.

Quote:

7a. How could the steel have melted if the fires in the WTC towers weren't hot enough to do so?

OR

7b. Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700 degrees Fahrenheit, the temperature of jet fuel fires does not exceed 1,800 degrees Fahrenheit and Underwriters Laboratories (UL) certified the steel in the WTC towers to 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit for six hours, how could fires have impacted the steel enough to bring down the WTC towers?





Honestly people, if you are going to quibble, you should at least accurately present the statements you take out of context.


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

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OfflineFrenchSocialist
DarwinianLeftist

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 883
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
Re: Architects & engineers for 911 truth [Re: Economist]
    #7010657 - 06/05/07 01:24 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Economist said:
Keep in mind the number of people who claimed the moon-landing was faked, and while that was mid-Vietnam, it was before watergate, Iran-contra, the whitewater deal, and the Iraq war.

Now, maybe you could argue that the moon-landing conspiracies were a reaction to Vietnam, the Bay of Pigs, and emerging evidence (at the time) that Pearl Harbor may have been prevented, but I think it's more likely that Americans have just tended to distrust their government for the past century, and it is not actually a new development.




Indeed. There is actually some truth in your statement.

Quote:

Confidence in government and ratings of the nation both plummeted in the 1960s during the Vietnam years and fell even further in the 1970s in response to Watergate. Both measures remained low throughout the 1970s, presumably in response to the high inflation and unemployment of that era. There was somewhat of a rebound in trust and rating of the nation during Reagan's "Morning in America" years, though it ended abruptly with public disillusionment over the Iran-Contra scandal. Trust and satisfaction with the state of the nation have fluctuated somewhat since then, but have never fully recovered.




From: http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=95


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"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Architects & engineers for 911 truth [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #7010872 - 06/05/07 05:50 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Though interesting, the Pew study begins with a rather remarkable time in our country's history. Immediately after WW2 and until the civil rights and Vietnam issues there was an unprecedented respect for government. I wonder what the results would be for the depression and dust bowl eras. The Korean War years. The Whiskey rebellion. Civil War.

The peak of distrust seems to be 10 years ago. So I guess you can't say they're starting to distrust now. Latest data seems to be closest to that around 1978, hardly recent, with a 10 year downward trend. Certainly some people are starting to distrust the government. You can always say that. It is a ludicrous point of no merit that somebody is doing something unless you detect a trend in the general population, and that, in this case, seems to be trending counter to your notion that distrust is rising. According to your own graph. Jesus.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
Re: Architects & engineers for 911 truth [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7010922 - 06/05/07 06:34 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Is there any relationship between the level of distrust in the government and the size of the government? It would be an interesting research topic...


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Just another spore in the wind.

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Offlineminesstudent
Who knows?
Male


Registered: 12/12/05
Posts: 400
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
Re: Architects & engineers for 911 truth [Re: FrenchSocialist]
    #7011878 - 06/05/07 01:26 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Alright then one of your highlighted portions said that.


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"The universe is the way it is because if it wasn't we wouldn't be here to talk about it"

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OfflineFrenchSocialist
DarwinianLeftist

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 883
Last seen: 16 years, 8 months
Re: Architects & engineers for 911 truth [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7012082 - 06/05/07 02:30 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Though interesting, the Pew study begins with a rather remarkable time in our country's history. Immediately after WW2 and until the civil rights and Vietnam issues there was an unprecedented respect for government. I wonder what the results would be for the depression and dust bowl eras. The Korean War years. The Whiskey rebellion. Civil War.




Interesting speculation, but that doesn't change the measurements.


Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The peak of distrust seems to be 10 years ago. So I guess you can't say they're starting to distrust now. Latest data seems to be closest to that around 1978, hardly recent, with a 10 year downward trend. Certainly some people are starting to distrust the government. You can always say that. It is a ludicrous point of no merit that somebody is doing something unless you detect a trend in the general population, and that, in this case, seems to be trending counter to your notion that distrust is rising. According to your own graph. Jesus.




"Half of the current poll's respondents (50%) said they now have an unfavorable opinion of the federal government in Washington, while 43% are favorable. In November 2001, 82% had a favorable opinion."

That's a 30% difference from 9/11, when trust in the government was extremely high. The 1978 data is irrelevant to this.

I also said more people were beginning to distrust our government for a reason. That reason is Bush's dishonest and incompetent policy making. You really need to start putting claims into context when you criticize them.


--------------------


"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin

Edited by FrenchSocialist (06/05/07 02:37 PM)

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