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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Synthetic vs. Natural Drugs
    #6992220 - 05/31/07 06:54 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

The bias towards natural drugs is prevalent on many entheogenic sites.

Now, I fully understand the danger of trying some research chemical with little research or history, but that is not the point I am addressing.

I just don't understand why people get all dreamy and mystical and pretend that a drug from a plant is somehow more spiritual than one from a lab.

Try, really try, to keep your responses based upoon something more substantial than emotion or feeling.


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Synthetic vs. Natural Drugs [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6992234 - 05/31/07 06:58 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I agree with you. Very often in discussions with friends and acquaintances, people express an appreciation for 'natural' chemicals, such as psilocybin, but are more hesitant about things such as LSD or MDMA.

I think their hesitation or reluctance is unfounded. A chemical is a chemical. Natural chemicals can be very toxic and deadly, and synthetic chemicals can be very healthy and life-saving. Perhaps their attitudes are simply based on not thinking it out the whole way through.


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"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Synthetic vs. Natural Drugs [Re: dblaney]
    #6992245 - 05/31/07 07:02 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Exactly.

What is especially ironic is that many natural durg proponents take synthetic vitamins and use aspirin instead of white willow bark.

But then consistency has never been very important to non-thinkers.


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Synthetic vs. Natural Drugs [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6992247 - 05/31/07 07:03 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

I tend to think that the emotions and feelings come out of identifying with the mystery. When you start to notice references all throughout history to certain states of concsiousness then you happen upon them it brings about specific emotions. Its like connecting to the archetypal energy behind the myths. This is a spiritual process. Certain plants have been used to initiate people into this understanding forever, IMO.


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Synthetic vs. Natural Drugs [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6992252 - 05/31/07 07:05 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

:lol: ahh the irony.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to say such people are non-thinkers, just perhaps they haven't given this particular opinion/value judgment much rational thought.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Synthetic vs. Natural Drugs [Re: backfromthedead]
    #6992267 - 05/31/07 07:09 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Perhaps, but when I first tripped (pre-internet), millions of people from my country and time had ingested LSD, while only tens of thousands of contemporaries had taken mushrooms.

In that sense, LSD had a shorter, but much LARGER history. Modern native mushroom cultures were very tiny and hidden, and ancient mushroom cultures were very obscure and unknown to the common tripper until quite recently.


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Synthetic vs. Natural Drugs [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6992282 - 05/31/07 07:14 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

The question I ask myself is: If LSD was the 'deal' why did Leary, a self proclaimed authority on the matter, use synthetic psilocybin in his Good Friday experiment??


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Synthetic vs. Natural Drugs [Re: backfromthedead]
    #6992296 - 05/31/07 07:18 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

What kind of question is that? :what:


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:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinejoekenorer
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Re: Synthetic vs. Natural Drugs [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6992298 - 05/31/07 07:18 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

The many doors of the mind are locked. Each drug is merely a key to certain ones. People must remember that the drug is merely a key, and nothing more. All of the associating content and phenomena are already in the mind. The drug, be it plant or synthetic, is nothing but an alkaloid structure looking for a neuron to fit in, hence the key and keyhole metaphor.


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My favorites are weeping willows, which aren't really weeping at all. They're very wispy, witty and will dance in the breeze with you. Nothing like a tree that wants to dance with you. Although it doesn't like its thin limbs being pulled at all, it absolutely LOVES it when you walk through them, letting them gently slide over your face and shoulders. If you're naked, the willow considers it to be sex. It will orgasm on your mind and you will blow dream chunks into outer space. All very fun until your neighbor sees you.                                    -The Joekenorer


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Synthetic vs. Natural Drugs [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6992299 - 05/31/07 07:18 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

That is, why are you even asking it? It seems like such a bad question. :grin:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Synthetic vs. Natural Drugs [Re: backfromthedead]
    #6992301 - 05/31/07 07:18 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)



Published 1970.

This guy was into other ideas.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Synthetic vs. Natural Drugs [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6992302 - 05/31/07 07:19 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

In 1962 Dr. Hofmann accompanied R. Gordon Wasson to Huautla de Jimenez where he was introduced to Maria Sabina. A velada was arranged and Dr. Hofmann presented her with a vial of synthetic psilocybin pills which he had produced in his Sandoz lab. Near dawn, when the ceremony ended, Maria declared the pills "the same spirit as the mushrooms," and thanked Dr. Hofmann, saying she could now "serve my people even during the season when no mushrooms grow."


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Synthetic vs. Natural Drugs [Re: backfromthedead]
    #6992305 - 05/31/07 07:19 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

The question I ask myself is: If psilocybin was the 'deal' why did Kesey, a self proclaimed authority on the matter, use LSD in his Electrik Kool-Aid Acid Test?


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Synthetic vs. Natural Drugs [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6992320 - 05/31/07 07:21 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Cause I'm crazy.:crazy2:


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OfflineJunkFood
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Re: Synthetic vs. Natural Drugs [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6992324 - 05/31/07 07:22 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Don't you think The Shroomery is biased in that they have a site about shrooms and a site about weed?


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Synthetic vs. Natural Drugs [Re: joekenorer]
    #6992362 - 05/31/07 07:30 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

joekenorer said:
The many doors of the mind are locked. Each drug is merely a key to certain ones. People must remember that the drug is merely a key, and nothing more. All of the associating content and phenomena are already in the mind. The drug, be it plant or synthetic, is nothing but an alkaloid structure looking for a neuron to fit in, hence the key and keyhole metaphor.




I guess I'd have to go with that. It just seems to me that mushrooms have more history throughout time, maybe not, who knows??


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Synthetic vs. Natural Drugs [Re: backfromthedead]
    #6992371 - 05/31/07 07:32 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

And I'd have to throw in: Cheaper to make?? Larger supply??


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Offlinejoekenorer
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Re: Synthetic vs. Natural Drugs [Re: backfromthedead]
    #6992414 - 05/31/07 07:44 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

The real mystery is the mind, rather than the drug. We already know that the concious can be altered through our own actions such as meditation. What I want to know is, does the neuron HAVE to be fit with the right chemical, or can the experience be manipulated by my own mind? can I reproduce the drugs effect through my own actions? Also, can this only be done by someone with an effective memory of the drug induced experience, or can anyone "enlighten" themselves automatically? And finally, if a self induced trip is possible, does this count as a true human eveolution beyond what thousands of years of humans have been doing manually?


--------------------
My favorites are weeping willows, which aren't really weeping at all. They're very wispy, witty and will dance in the breeze with you. Nothing like a tree that wants to dance with you. Although it doesn't like its thin limbs being pulled at all, it absolutely LOVES it when you walk through them, letting them gently slide over your face and shoulders. If you're naked, the willow considers it to be sex. It will orgasm on your mind and you will blow dream chunks into outer space. All very fun until your neighbor sees you.                                    -The Joekenorer


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Synthetic vs. Natural Drugs [Re: joekenorer]
    #6992483 - 05/31/07 08:02 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The real mystery is the mind, rather than the drug.




Which is what I am exploring: why certain minds place certain values on certain substances.


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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: Synthetic vs. Natural Drugs [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6992506 - 05/31/07 08:08 PM (13 years, 11 months ago)



Maybe its written into the program.


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