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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: Have you witnessed or performed 'real' magick? [Re: thedudenj]
#7000997 - 06/02/07 07:19 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
thedudenj said:
every day
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lavod
Seal Whisperer


Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5,440
Loc: Over the rainbow
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Re: Have you witnessed or performed 'real' magick? [Re: Middleman]
#7001362 - 06/02/07 09:25 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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93 Yes. As a magickian working within a Thelemic framework, I practice ceremonial ritual every day and try as best I can to meld my life to selfless attainment. Of course, the general conception of how magick works is, to most people, diluted. The best synthetic explanation of magick is that of the priest of the princes, Aleister Crowley "magick is the art and science of causing change to occur in conformity with will". I'm not going to get into the issue of where magick picks up where science leaves off, or the simply complex ways in which it works. Those are not in the confines of this thread and best subjected to your own experience anyway. So, on with it!
My magickal intentions are entirely white. Yet, magick often works in ways, especially for the beginner, quite unpredictable and contrary to one's original intention if there is but one variable that can cause folly. Therefore, gray magick(that which unintentionally causes interference with the will of others, or is detrimental to that of the the practitioner) is spawned. I will give some personal examples of such:
- I was unhappy with my job and the stagnation it was imposing in my life. I created a fire sigil and charged it. I decided to work with the element of fire due to it's destructive nature and the creation spawned from the projection of intent. I carried the charged sigil into work and once there, I threw it into a wood burning stove to complete the magical action. Within 45 minutes, an actual fire had broken out 15 feet from the oven. The place had to be evacuated and the fire department called. The place was closed for the next day and a half and a massive wall had to be replaced. Well, it worked, but certainly not in the scale I had wanted!
-I went into a nearby forest to invoke the Egyptian goddess Isis. The invocation was successful. I entered a glorious state, characterized as sananda, and certainly felt the presence and essence of the goddess. I had brought a compass with me and when I looked at it, I noticed that it was completely stopped and no change in direction would sway it! It had always worked before, was not cold out, and started working again when I began to enter a more "normal" state. In this state, I would also think about something in the external environment and then have it manifest before me shortly thereafter. For example, I would suddenly think of a skunk, only to take a few steps, hear a shuffling, and shine my flashlight upon one.
-I occasionally use the I-Ching(using river stones-more deeply rooted symbolically) as a method of divination. Incredibly accurate, some of the readings I have attained, using liber 216 as a guide, have actually had a literal correspondence to the actual result. A good example: I meditated upon the question of what to do with a car I have. Keep it as a daily driver or sell it? The answer I received was the khwan hexagram with the 4th line moving. Crowley's 4th line of the poem states: "Here is a sack made safe by skillful tie". Super I say, I'm having some work done on the car, everything will be alright. I interpreted the passage as if I maintain the car properly, it will be reliable and serve. The very next day, I took the car out for a drive and promptly got pulled over by a cop. It turns out that I had completely forgotten about re-registering the car. The car was towed and I got a big fine. Here's the kicker: At the time I kept my registration and other info in one of those purple crown royal bags(the sack was'nt tied properly). The car was not safe as it was taken from my presence by a fat greasy tow truck driver to a greasy shop for temporary impound. As you can see, nature does indeed possess a sense of humor!
Thats enough for this thread. For the op's sake, no tripping experience stuff(that would encompass a great deal more space!). A very limited scope of magick, yes, but one of which most tend to associate it with. My examples are not to be implied as spiritual pride(accursed!), but rather as examples of how magick can work in mysterious ways due to unforeseen variables. As the Taoist knows, sometimes the best magick results from nothing. 93 93/93
Edited by lavod (06/02/07 09:36 PM)
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



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Re: Have you witnessed or performed 'real' magick? [Re: lavod]
#7001971 - 06/03/07 12:31 AM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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It has to be said.
What I see, is a lot of people with, "Faith." Faith that everything is connected... faith in the ability to control the, "Energy" around you... faith in the "Law of attraction."
What I don't see, is "Proof" that, "Magick" is real.
I'm not trying to poo-poo all of you, "Believers" out there. Humans have a HUGE capacity for faith. So much so, it can be problematic. Humans are gullible. Humans are scientifically proven to be vulnerable to things, other animals are immune to... such as fraud... and, "Faith" in things which do not exist.
No matter what you believe in, there are MORE people out there who disagree with you, than agree with you. "Proof" is important, when you wish to communicate with others, on a global scale.
You get a lot of hippies around here. Buddhists... New Agers...
There are worse places to put your faith, than in Buddhism... or New Age theology. In fact, I suggest to ALL new trippers, "study Buddhism". It is a psychologically tested, "Safe" tripping mindset to be in... if you are mentally stable enough to trip. I'm not as enthusiastic about, "New age" stuff... like crystals, astrology and "The Secret".
I am a fan of Buddhism. Any philosophy which CAN incorporate science, is better than... say Christian fundamentalism. But I recognize it for what it is. It is, a place to put excess human, "Faith"... it is not "Proof" of magick.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
Edited by Rose (06/03/07 12:38 AM)
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: Have you witnessed or performed 'real' magick? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7002592 - 06/03/07 08:47 AM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
No matter what you believe in, there are MORE people out there who disagree with you, than agree with you. "Proof" is important, when you wish to communicate with others, on a global scale.
Fortunately, I don't have to prove the existence of magick to others in order for it to work for me.
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anominis
Stranger



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Re: Have you witnessed or performed 'real' magick? [Re: Silversoul]
#7002648 - 06/03/07 09:27 AM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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after reading the celestine prophecy, i tried to make myself a conduit of positive energy.
i focused on the beauty of some trees, reached a small state of love and then focused on sending this loving energy to another person, while opening myself up to the limitless storehouse of love.
what happened next was totally unexpected. everything became much more serene, i was filled with an enormous amount of love, and the mid section on my back began to pulsate.
another similar experience was when i was in church, listening to the music being played i began something i usualy do - letting chills run down my spine. this is an amazing sensation by itself, but what happened at the climax of the song was far beyond my usual experience. instead of the chills trickling down from the top of my head into my body, it was as if a floodgate had been opened. i entered into a state that is hard to describe, except for fleeting words like bliss and radiance. the state lasted for only maybe 10 seconds, but was very intense.
now i don't know if this falls under the category of magick, but i thought i might share in case it was. by the way, does anybody know what exactly these sensation of chills are? where they are referred to, or any experience with them?
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lavod
Seal Whisperer


Registered: 06/23/06
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Re: Have you witnessed or performed 'real' magick? [Re: Rose]
#7002691 - 06/03/07 09:56 AM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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93 Mr. Cervantes, your advice for new trippers to study Buddhism is well founded, may I suggest that you follow that advice yourself. Indeed, the general populous as a whole does not accept certain things that they are not suited to understand. Perfectly okay, everyone has their place in life, they become a friend or foe only in relation to the sustenance of one's will.
Magick is often mixed up with religion. This is foolish as magick is artistic science, religion is a three dimensional language. It is not a philosophy, it is a dynamic truth. Cause and effect. Yet, there are variables that are not always accounted for. By understanding how the personal and impersonal universes function, one limits the unknown variables and the will goes along it's path with little interference. How does one begin to understand? Through experience and the subsequent judgment of experience. Faith? Magick has nothing to do with faith.
Just remember always, "Nothing is true, everything is permitted". Perceptible truth(a contradiction in itself) is only transient and partial. Is is all. 93 93/93
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Posts: 95,368
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Re: Have you witnessed or performed 'real' magick? [Re: Silversoul]
#7002732 - 06/03/07 10:13 AM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
No matter what you believe in, there are MORE people out there who disagree with you, than agree with you. "Proof" is important, when you wish to communicate with others, on a global scale.
Fortunately, I don't have to prove the existence of magick to others in order for it to work for me.
If you look at Crowley's definition of Magick then it's something we all do all the time whether we are aware of that or not. I go along with this idea. A great example he gave is in getting a glass of water. His intent was to acquire this water through magick. His invocation was a particular spell consisting of words asking someone to get him a glass of water. The proof of the success of his spell casting was in the fact that said person went to the sink and got him a glass of water and brought it to him. This is how IMO, magick works.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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Re: Have you witnessed or performed 'real' magick? [Re: Icelander]
#7002806 - 06/03/07 10:47 AM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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"Every change has it's own conditions" - Aleister Crowley
By getting more aware of the nature of our surroundings we become more capable of observing and understanding the multitude of those conditions, and then, by exercising our Will, we can manipulate those conditions in order to produce a change. That is magick. Some people consider it as being supernatural because they are not able to to see those conditions and the way hey were manipulated.
Quote from "Magick Without Tears"
Quote:
In the present state of our knowledge and power some changes are not possible in practice; we cannot cause eclipses, for instance, or transform lead into tin, or create men from mushrooms. But it is theoretically possible to cause in any object any change of which that object is capable by nature; and the conditions are covered by the above postulate
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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anominis
Stranger



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Re: Have you witnessed or performed 'real' magick? [Re: lavod]
#7002807 - 06/03/07 10:47 AM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
lavod said: Just remember always, "Nothing is true, everything is permitted".
that quote sounds farmiliar, except the version i recall goes more like " everything is permitted, but not everything is beneficial " good quote nonetheless
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



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Re: Have you witnessed or performed 'real' magick? [Re: lavod]
#7002946 - 06/03/07 11:28 AM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
lavod said:
Mr. Cervantes, your advice for new trippers to study Buddhism is well founded, may I suggest that you follow that advice yourself.
Please, call me Cerv. No Mr. Required.
However, your suggestion that I should study Buddhism myself, smells of condescension. Did the Buddha teach you that?
Don't worry, I'll live.
Anyway, this reminds me of an old parable.
Quote:
Cervantes said: An enlightened family of Buddhists... yes, all enlightened... had a visitor one day. He came to ask about enlightenment, and he figured he should visit the family who had figured it all out. Father, Mother, Sister, Brother... all enlightened.
The man had long heard of this family, they were a thing of legend in his village... many were Buddhist yet few were enlightened. Still an entire family had figured it out, against all odds.
After walking up the hill that separated the family's farm from his village, the man came upon a young girl, no more than 5... this was the enlightened daughter of the family he sought. The man greeted her, then asked her where to find enlightenment. The girl smiled and said, "Why it is the easiest thing in the world to find, it is right under your nose, and it is your nose as well."
The man continued along the path that led him onwards towards the house at the top of the hill when he came upon a teenage boy, the enlightened son. The boy was laying on his back, below a tree looking at the clouds in the sky. The man politely introduced himself, and he explained his reasons for walking up the hill. He asked the teen where to find enlightenment, the boy said, "It can't be found." The man asked if the boy could teach him about enlightenment, the boy said, "It can not be taught, for quite simply, it can not be expressed."
Confused, the man continued up the hill where, not too surprisingly he stumbled upon the enlightened mother of the two children... and perhaps a little more shocking, the father as well. The man caught them up on his quest and asked them where to find enlightenment. The mother said, "It is everywhere and nowhere." He asked if it could be learned... "Perhaps." came her reply. He asked if it could be put into words, "Yes, if you are willing to listen." she said with a coy grin.
The man, more confused than ever looked at the father, with a look of mad desperation. Before the man could open his mouth, the father picked up a stick from the porch and bonked the man on the head... and in that instant, that man too, was enlightened.
In this tale, not one family member could explain enlightenment the same way. Yet, they were ALL enlightened.
There are many ways to skin a cat... and with Buddhism... there are many ways to say the same thing, as well. Sometimes contradictions AREN'T really contradictions. Sometimes, apparent disagreements aren't disagreements at all.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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thedudenj
Man of the Woods


Registered: 08/18/04
Posts: 14,684
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Re: Have you witnessed or performed 'real' magick? [Re: Rose]
#7002984 - 06/03/07 11:37 AM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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well said pirate man... i know the flying dutch man
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  "You all are just puppets... You have no heart...and cannot feel any pain..."" you may think thats pain you feel but you must have a heart to feel true pain and that pain wont be yours
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lavod
Seal Whisperer


Registered: 06/23/06
Posts: 5,440
Loc: Over the rainbow
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Re: Have you witnessed or performed 'real' magick? [Re: Rose]
#7003672 - 06/03/07 03:09 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: Sometimes contradictions AREN'T really contradictions. Sometimes, apparent disagreements aren't disagreements at all.
93 Excellent! A statement of universal sublimity. This is in contrast to the absolute mess that was your previous post. Die in a fire. Take that as encouragement. Buddha teach me? Nah, I'd rather kick em' in his fat belly! 93 93/93
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: Have you witnessed or performed 'real' magick? [Re: lavod]
#7003715 - 06/03/07 03:26 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Care to demonstrate precisely how his previous post was an "absolute mess"?
Also, Buddha wasn't fat.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Have you witnessed or performed 'real' magick? [Re: fireworks_god]
#7003723 - 06/03/07 03:30 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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What about "die in a fire"? Would that be considered a flame?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Have you witnessed or performed 'real' magick? [Re: fireworks_god]
#7003727 - 06/03/07 03:31 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Also, Buddha wasn't fat.
And neither was Elvis.
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: Have you witnessed or performed 'real' magick? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7003751 - 06/03/07 03:39 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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The fat Buddha statues are not literal representations, but symbolic expressions of abundance.
Here is a painting depicting Siddhartha during his ascetic phase:
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: Have you witnessed or performed 'real' magick? [Re: Veritas]
#7003782 - 06/03/07 03:48 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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The fat Buddha statues are representatives of an entirely different man.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
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Re: Have you witnessed or performed 'real' magick? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7003783 - 06/03/07 03:48 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: And neither was Elvis.
Elvis and John F. Kennedy were the exact same person. Seriously.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



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Posts: 45,414
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Re: Have you witnessed or performed 'real' magick? [Re: fireworks_god]
#7003808 - 06/03/07 03:54 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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We are all one - except for Swami.  
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Have you witnessed or performed 'real' magick? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7003823 - 06/03/07 03:57 PM (16 years, 7 months ago) |
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Swami needed to be isolated for the good of the community. There is scientific proof of this. (somewhere)
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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