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Offlineraziel666
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gypsum vs sodium bicarbonate
    #6973846 - 05/27/07 02:27 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

hey people

does anyone know how much bicarbonate should i add to my casing preparation/bulk substrate/horse manure ???

i know that RR recomends 1 part gypsum for every 10 of substrate...

its the same for sodium bicarbonate?
help please!!!!!


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: gypsum vs sodium bicarbonate [Re: raziel666]
    #6973902 - 05/27/07 02:44 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

how much bicarbonate should i add to my casing preparation/bulk substrate/horse manure ???





None. Baking soda will kill your mycelium. Gypsum is calcium sulphate.
RR


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Offlineraziel666
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Registered: 03/18/07
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Re: gypsum vs sodium bicarbonate [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6976747 - 05/28/07 08:26 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

:eek:

omg.... its that bad???????????

sorry i come from a spanish forum...some people recomend bicarbonate and i just used it in 2 casings...hopefully i have 6 more...

i read in wikipedia that bicarbonate is used in gastronomy but ALSO it is used to raise the ph.... it has a ph of 8.3-8.6....

BAD IDEA ANYWAY???


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Offlinejavtfs
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Re: gypsum vs sodium bicarbonate [Re: raziel666]
    #6976773 - 05/28/07 08:37 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

hello Raziel,

ja ja ja ... we come from the same place . Don´t use bicarbonate ... you need to find calcium carbonate ( carbonato calcico ) for garden purposes. I have the same problem I went last week to a big garden center asking for that but there wasn´t any at all and they seemed not to have it either.

The only thing I could find here in Spain is Crushed Oyster Shell from the birdshop. Which is not the best because it acts as log term buffering ph ...but it is the only thing I could get here yet.LOL


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Offlineraziel666
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Re: gypsum vs sodium bicarbonate [Re: javtfs]
    #6976808 - 05/28/07 08:48 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

hey javtfs k bueno ver caras conocidas por aqui jajaja...info de sobra por estos lares no????

ok i wont use it anymore....i will look for gypsum or whatever i can find.....i know some chemistry shops but really far away....

tnxs


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Invisibledeucedbi9
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Re: gypsum vs sodium bicarbonate [Re: raziel666]
    #6976841 - 05/28/07 08:56 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

it's used in wine making.
you could try contacting local vinyards,or home brew shops.
just read it may go under the name of "yeso"in spain.


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OfflineNibin
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Re: gypsum vs sodium bicarbonate [Re: deucedbi9]
    #6976878 - 05/28/07 09:02 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Chicos, id a cualquier ferreteria y pedid "Blanco de Espanya). Lo usan los pintores y es carbonato calcico. Una bolsa de un kilo vale menos de dos euros.

Sodium bicarbonate will break up in presence of water into sodium (increasing salinity of medium) and bicarbonate ion, which then combines with a loose hidrogen ion to form CO2 and H2O. So effectively, as you are taking H+ ions out of the medium you are making the substrate more alkaline (higher than seven). But it is quite a short lasting substance and I'm not sure all that extra sodium is any good. RR seems to think it's bad so i'd be inclined to follos his advice


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Edited by Nibin (05/28/07 09:07 AM)


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OfflineNibin
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Re: gypsum vs sodium bicarbonate [Re: Nibin]
    #6976947 - 05/28/07 09:18 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

By the way RR, if you read this.

Blanco de España is a chemical powder sold in Spain used basically by painters which is mostly calcium carbonate but also has a percentage of Magnesium Carbonate.

As magnesium is very necessary for various metabolic processes, especially Glycolysis where it is essencial for the working of various enzymes.

I was wondering if this added magnesium would be noticeably beneficial for the mycelium or is there more than enough Mg in normal substrates?


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: gypsum vs sodium bicarbonate [Re: Nibin]
    #6977311 - 05/28/07 11:09 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Mg is also toxic to fungi. Don't use it. If you can find hydrated lime, it works to raise pH. The problem with sodium bicarbonate is the sodium. Salt is what is toxic. Some commercial growers use sodium barcobonate to cover molds in order to get a woodchip/sawdust block to harvest. However, plain salt works as well.

Gypsum is not used to raise pH. It's used to provide calcium and sulfur. It also prevents pH from swinging in either direction, holding it where you originally set it with lime.

Here's the label for hydrated lime. Note the very low Mg content.
RR


--------------------
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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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OfflineNibin
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Re: gypsum vs sodium bicarbonate [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6977376 - 05/28/07 11:21 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Hmm, strange. I have read various studies that suggest that magnesium supplements increase the utilisation of substrate carbohydrates.

I can understand that an excess can be bad, but would the small percentage of magnesium carbonate present in this stuff really be toxic?


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Offlinejavtfs
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Re: gypsum vs sodium bicarbonate [Re: Nibin]
    #6985927 - 05/30/07 05:44 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I think that Mg should´t go over 3 % but I am not sure


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Offlinehyphae
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Re: gypsum vs sodium bicarbonate [Re: javtfs]
    #6985967 - 05/30/07 06:21 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

javtfs said:
I think that Mg should´t go over 3 % but I am not sure



Correct.


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Offlineraziel666
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Re: gypsum vs sodium bicarbonate - alternatives [Re: hyphae]
    #6986060 - 05/30/07 07:24 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

ok i already got the gypsum but the lime is being hard to find....

one doubt:
i know that calcium carbonate can be transformed into calcium oxide(CaO - quicklime) and calcium hydroxide (Ca(OH)2 - slaked lime).....

i am preety sure we can use JUST the second one right???
cause i already found the quicklime....

also i found AGRICULTURAL LIME, but it doesnt have a label where i can read about the other minerals in it....

what do u say people????

tnxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx a lot


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: gypsum vs sodium bicarbonate - alternatives [Re: raziel666]
    #6986381 - 05/30/07 09:31 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Most agricultural lime is from dolomite limestone and has too much Mg in it. Use calcium carbonate or calcium hydroxide(hydrated lime)
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison


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OfflineNibin
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Re: gypsum vs sodium bicarbonate - alternatives [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6986526 - 05/30/07 10:12 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Dang, it is dolomite limestone I use. That answers my doubts from that other thread.


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Offlinejavtfs
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Re: gypsum vs sodium bicarbonate - alternatives [Re: raziel666]
    #6987155 - 05/30/07 01:24 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Raziel , I think that Hydrated lime is what you call slaked lime.

tell me how you found it ...


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Offlineraziel666
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Re: gypsum vs sodium bicarbonate - alternatives [Re: javtfs]
    #6987958 - 05/30/07 04:43 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

first of all i wanna say THANKS A LOT TO MR. RABBIT...its amazing how u dedicate to all-around-the-world growers.....greetings SKYyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy PILOT!!!!!!!!!

i will keep on looking for the the carbonate calcium till i find it and thats it with it.

hey javfts u just have to ask for "cal" in any hardware store.
they use it for construction

there is "cal viva" (quicklime, oxido de calcio, es demasiado fuerte) and also "cal muerta o apagada" (slaked lime, hidroxido de calcio,la correcta)....but i CANT find the second one...just the first one

so i am basiclly f%*&%$.....for now.:rasta:


Edited by raziel666 (06/14/07 11:10 AM)


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OfflineNibin
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Re: gypsum vs sodium bicarbonate - alternatives [Re: raziel666]
    #6988502 - 05/30/07 07:11 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

In the worst of cases use crushed oyster shell


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Offlineoldiebutnewbie
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sodium bicarbonate....... [Re: raziel666]
    #6988952 - 05/30/07 08:57 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

is very good to kill germs and bacteria. Us old folks use it to keep our gums from bleeding and otherwise control/eliminate gum disease. It's great for washing down one's work area in this hobby and not nearly so noxious as bleach. It's sold as baking soda for 50 or 60 cents per pound and many folks keep an open box in their 'fridge to absorb odors.
----
Lime is used sometimes in masonry. I like to add some to my portland and sand when laying bricks as it makes the batter adhere better. Stucco too. It's also used on lawns and to make the white stipes on baseball fields. People with stables or outhouses also use it to absorb odors.
---
Gypsum is that white stuff in drywall. You can just smash drywall scrap and pulverise it. Pure gypsum, nothing else.


--------------------
OBN


Edited by oldiebutnewbie (05/30/07 09:04 PM)


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