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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlineenotake2
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effective manipulators
    #6980892 - 05/29/07 06:00 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I read something really interesting recently. Apparently there is an inverse relationship between empathy and manipulativeness/need for power (machiavellianism). There has been a couple of studies done using scales that measure trait empathy and machiavellianism, and if you score high on machiavellianism, you are likely to score low on empathy. One study author says - if people are effective manipulators they are likely to have low empathy because being insensitive to other people's needs allows them to bully their way through to get what they want.

I wonder though if you can have more or less empathy in different situations and so be more or less manipulative in different situations? I guess the results are for in general.

The other thing I learned is that empathy is the basis of morality (I read about the other study in a book on empathy and morality).- Because if you feel a higher level of distress at someone else's suffering you will go out of your way to help them, because if you don't, the distress remains.

So I concluded from all this that people who are manipulative are good people to avoid because they are more likely to do you over and hurt you.

This has been my life experience too - that the people that have hurt me are the ones that are the most charming and manipulative. I reckon it is a good thing to think about when making friends lol.


Edited by enotake2 (05/29/07 06:13 AM)


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: effective manipulators [Re: enotake2]
    #6980925 - 05/29/07 06:33 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Ever thought you were being manipulated for your own good?

Despite everything, you need to look at who is at fault for this, is it the manipulator for being cunning, or is it you for being fooled by it? :crazy2:


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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineNibin
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Re: effective manipulators [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #6980965 - 05/29/07 07:01 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

also, the best manipulators have some degree of empathy because they have to understand their victim to manipulate them.


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Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: effective manipulators [Re: Nibin]
    #6980974 - 05/29/07 07:07 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Thats not empathy, its merely an act... take it from someone who knows.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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OfflineNibin
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Re: effective manipulators [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #6980978 - 05/29/07 07:09 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I don't mean pretend to be sorry for a person.

I mean understand what that person is feeling to milk that feeling to the maximum.


--------------------
Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy


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Offlineenotake2
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Re: effective manipulators [Re: Nibin]
    #6980983 - 05/29/07 07:13 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Well the study is saying the opposite. I think if they understood what the other person is feeling they would feel too guilty to do a good job of manipulating them, and their conscience wouldn't allow it. I think they have just learned what works to hook in people, and yeah can act like psychoactive said.


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Computer games don't affect kids. I mean if Pacman affected our generation as kids, we'd all be running around in a darkened room, munching pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

"Being bitter and hateful is like drinking a vial of poison and hoping the other person gets sick" FreakQLibrium

"My motto from here on out is: If someone or something (including me) in my life is conducting themselves in such a way that they can be seen on Jerry Springer, it's time to take out the garbage!!! When you stop taking their behaviour personally and see their antics as a true reflection on their character, it becomes absolutely nauseating." Anon. on abusive relationships.


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: effective manipulators [Re: enotake2]
    #6980985 - 05/29/07 07:15 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

On the contrary, a true manipulator really wouldn't reveal too much about it but meh, I'll concede that they studied some manipulators.

As far as it being for others good... Well, i do it all the time.

Politicians do it all the time.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblePsychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Male

Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
Re: effective manipulators [Re: Nibin]
    #6980989 - 05/29/07 07:17 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Its merely contrived to make it appear as such.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


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Invisiblememes
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Re: effective manipulators [Re: Psychoactive1984]
    #6981011 - 05/29/07 07:31 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

i believe empathy and machiavelliasm must be used to different degrees in different social situations. also - i'm sure most people use each to a certain degree, unique for everyone.

kinda like the whole nature vs. nurture as a source of behavior.


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Invisiblereflectedlight
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Re: effective manipulators [Re: memes]
    #6981039 - 05/29/07 07:50 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

just mimic the person without consciously doing it., body language, colloquial phrases.


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at this point i think we can be relatively certain seperation exists as a fallacy of finite perception, and the only barrier to infinite creativity is a preimposed notion of certainty and artificial conditioning. nothing is without origin


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InvisiblePsychoactive1984
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Re: effective manipulators [Re: reflectedlight]
    #6981044 - 05/29/07 07:53 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Its much more fun utilizing it actively rather then passively, especially when you know your shit, you can outright confuse a person by sending too many messages over the course of a few minutes... but you gotta do it rather slowly or else you look funny gesticulating too much.


--------------------
"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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