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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: More Reasons To Disbelieve In The Existence Of The Soul [Re: thefloodbehind]
    #16043896 - 04/04/12 03:51 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

necessarily being the key word. it's still possible that it contains all possibles.

Actually, as with so many things in life, the truth is more subtle. Here's a mind-bending example.

Given an unbounded general topological manifold (English translation: infinite space), then consider someone walking in random directions on a 2-dimensional plane in that space. If that person walks for infinite time, then there is a 100% probability that eventually the walker will cross over his starting point. This is a certainty as long as you allot infinite time to the random walk.

However, if the random walk takes place in three dimensions for infinite time, then there is only ~34.054% probability that the walker will eventually cross over his starting point. Even if he walks for all eternity. In four dimensions, the probability drops to ~19.320%. It continues to drop in higher-dimensional spaces.

So in other words, if you were to move around in the universe randomly for all eternity, there is only a ~34.054% chance that you will cross over the point where you started.

Weird, eh? This was proven in the early 1900s. The theorem is too complicated to cover here, but you can see it for yourself at the Wolfram web. It's called Polya's Walk.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: More Reasons To Disbelieve In The Existence Of The Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #16043907 - 04/04/12 03:55 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I don't think it's proven until someone tries it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinefalcon
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Re: More Reasons To Disbelieve In The Existence Of The Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #16044153 - 04/04/12 04:59 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

In the 3 dimensional example is the path of described by the walking considered to be a line with only one dimension, length?

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
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Re: More Reasons To Disbelieve In The Existence Of The Soul [Re: falcon]
    #16044242 - 04/04/12 05:24 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

In the 3 dimensional example is the path of described by the walking considered to be a line with only one dimension, length?

It doesn't have to be a line. The walk could consist of a curve(s) or compound curve(s) of any length, and/or line segments of any orientation and length, or any combination of those, or any other set of random movements within the space.

Any 3-D random walk if conducted for infinite time will cross its starting point with the given probability.

If the walk is confined to a 2-D plane, then the probability is 100% that it will eventually cross its starting point.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlinethefloodbehind
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Loc: Nashville, TN
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: More Reasons To Disbelieve In The Existence Of The Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #16044360 - 04/04/12 05:50 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
necessarily being the key word. it's still possible that it contains all possibles.

Actually, as with so many things in life, the truth is more subtle. Here's a mind-bending example.

Given an unbounded general topological manifold (English translation: infinite space), then consider someone walking in random directions on a 2-dimensional plane in that space. If that person walks for infinite time, then there is a 100% probability that eventually the walker will cross over his starting point. This is a certainty as long as you allot infinite time to the random walk.

However, if the random walk takes place in three dimensions for infinite time, then there is only ~34.054% probability that the walker will eventually cross over his starting point. Even if he walks for all eternity. In four dimensions, the probability drops to ~19.320%. It continues to drop in higher-dimensional spaces.

So in other words, if you were to move around in the universe randomly for all eternity, there is only a ~34.054% chance that you will cross over the point where you started.

Weird, eh? This was proven in the early 1900s. The theorem is too complicated to cover here, but you can see it for yourself at the Wolfram web. It's called Polya's Walk.




:psychsplit:

thanks, man. is this the kind of thing taught in an abstract algebra course? i am two classes shy from my math degree and would really enjoy the opportunity to learn more about this sort of stuff.

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Offlinethefloodbehind
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Re: More Reasons To Disbelieve In The Existence Of The Soul [Re: Icelander]
    #16044372 - 04/04/12 05:54 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I don't think it's proven until someone tries it.




hahaha. that's part of why tesla disbelieved in einstein's mass–energy equivalence: it has only been verified mathematically.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: More Reasons To Disbelieve In The Existence Of The Soul [Re: Icelander]
    #16044453 - 04/04/12 06:11 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Never underestimate the power of alcohol!



--------------------

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Offlinemidace12
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Re: More Reasons To Disbelieve In The Existence Of The Soul [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16058589 - 04/07/12 08:01 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)



Any opinions on GDV photography???  I've always found it pretty fascinating, that these cameras can show how our bodies interact with fields we can't normally perceive. 

No claim on this being related to the soul what so ever, I'm more just gauging opinions on this science.

From what I know, this field is fairly new, the idea has been around since the 1930's I believe, but the technology has only been around for maybe 15 years? So I'm just wondering if anyone thinks this science should be studied further as a possible explanation for the "soul". I think you can find live videos of GDV photography on YouTube as well, showing "energy fields" interacting with various organisms. Interesting stuff IMHO, I'm in college now and wouldn't mind graduating to a field like this.  ANYTHING BUT ACCOUNTING!!!

Quote:

The world has enough lawyers, but it's hurting for scientists




^Older Brother, Physics Grad Student

Edited by midace12 (04/07/12 08:17 PM)

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Offlinemidace12
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Re: More Reasons To Disbelieve In The Existence Of The Soul [Re: midace12]
    #16058711 - 04/07/12 08:25 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Nothing to do with the thread, BUT

if you have a joint handy......this could help contemplate the discussion.... (maybe)

[url=

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: More Reasons To Disbelieve In The Existence Of The Soul [Re: midace12]
    #16058748 - 04/07/12 08:33 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

From what I know, this field is fairly new, the idea has been around since the 1930's I believe, but the technology has only been around for maybe 15 years?

Actually, the first Kirlian was made in the 1930s. Modern technology just makes it easier.

As for it being a soul or [fill in your favorite mumbo jumbo], you'd have to explain why inanimate objects kike keys and coins also exhibit the effect.

Here's what a coin's soul looks like: :shrug:



--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: More Reasons To Disbelieve In The Existence Of The Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #16058770 - 04/07/12 08:38 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

you'd have to explain why inanimate objects kike keys and coins also exhibit the effect




FYI Non-Jewish keys and coins also exhibit the same effect. :shrug:


--------------------

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Offlinemidace12
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Re: More Reasons To Disbelieve In The Existence Of The Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #16058809 - 04/07/12 08:45 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:

Here's what a coin's soul looks like: :shrug:







Hah.....shiiiiiit. That is one lively coin!! Hell man, I just don't know. I won't lie about it, I want to believe in a soul, I want to know part of me is eternal, and I do believe that (specially after a few shroom trips). I also get offended when people of the opposite spectrum try to disprove it so hastily, but that comes with the territory.

But honestly, if this life is all we have, which in the scale of the universe is literally the blink of an eye....what the hell is the point of existence? If it's to perpetuate the species, WHY are we perpetuating the species? What is the point of the species to perpetuate, if inevitably it will exhaust all of its resources by doing so? I know these questions can't be answered completely, but they are just the things I consider when contemplating the Soul. There has to be a bigger picture IMHO.

:peace:


--------------------

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: More Reasons To Disbelieve In The Existence Of The Soul [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #16058826 - 04/07/12 08:48 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

FYI Non-Jewish keys and coins also exhibit the same effect.

Leave me alone! It's the damned spell sheker's fault! :rofl2:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: More Reasons To Disbelieve In The Existence Of The Soul [Re: midace12]
    #16058844 - 04/07/12 08:51 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

I want to believe in a soul, I want to know part of me is eternal

I do too. The idea the the universe is nihilistic and that I am a meaningless blip that will cease to exist in the blink of an eye compared to eternity is deeply unsatisfying. Unfortunately, the universe doesn't have to satisfy me, and I for one would rather know a hard and ugly truth than be pacified by a sugar coated lie.

Your mileage may vary. So go ahead and believe if that makes you happy. But me? Believing the pleasant lie would make me more unhappy than the harsh truth.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Offlinemidace12
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Posts: 69
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Re: More Reasons To Disbelieve In The Existence Of The Soul [Re: Diploid]
    #16058900 - 04/07/12 09:02 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Your mileage may vary. So go ahead and believe if that makes you happy. But me? Believing the pleasant lie would make me more unhappy than the harsh truth.




:thumbup: Respectable insight.


One thing that is undeniable though, is that we will all get the answers we're looking for in the end.  :confused:

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: More Reasons To Disbelieve In The Existence Of The Soul [Re: midace12]
    #16058928 - 04/07/12 09:08 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

There does not have to be a bigger picture.  You want a bigger picture that's all. And you don't have to know what the answers are and just because you don't know those answers doesn't mean making some up makes more sense.

Buck up and live without meaning. It's fun but it ain't for sissies.:brucelee:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlinemidace12
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Re: More Reasons To Disbelieve In The Existence Of The Soul [Re: Icelander]
    #16058991 - 04/07/12 09:22 PM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:

Buck up and live without meaning. It's fun but it ain't for sissies.:brucelee:






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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: More Reasons To Disbelieve In The Existence Of The Soul [Re: midace12]
    #16059815 - 04/08/12 03:16 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Not CM, he's a meaning making machine.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineRobert6051
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Re: More Reasons To Disbelieve In The Existence Of The Soul [Re: Icelander]
    #16059845 - 04/08/12 03:42 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

So let's say you get your legs cut off. Your still you. Just with no legs. Get your arms cut off...your still you. Apparently someone in China has a patent on a device that can keep a money's head alive independant of its body. Makes sense: as long as you're pumping oxygenated blood into the head, no reason it shouldn't live. So if it were your head, you could still see, hear, and think. Your still you. One step farther: let's say we remove your brain, submerge it in an isotonic solution and pump blood into and out of it. Dialyze the blood to remove waste products, oxygenate it and supplement it with the appropriate nutrients. Your brain lives. You can't see, can't hear, but you can think and reason. You would know what was going on theoretically. Sometimes as a treatment for severe, intractable seizures a hemispherectomy (removal of 1/2 brain at corpus collosum) is performed. No loss of fucntion. So let's remove 1/2 of your brain. Now you are just 1/2 of a brain in vat of fluid hooked up to machines. But theoretically, you're still you. I think abou this sometimes, in relation to where the soul lays. Comments?

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OfflineRobert6051
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Re: More Reasons To Disbelieve In The Existence Of The Soul [Re: Robert6051]
    #16059848 - 04/08/12 03:44 AM (11 years, 11 months ago)

Also, what do think about the pineal gland (Descarte called it the "seat of the soul"), DMT??

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