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 relativexistance
"beads, bees!?!?beads ....BEADS!!!"
Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 1,778
Last seen: 11 years, 9 months
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 If we win the war 
#6963955 - 05/24/07 11:51 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Do you think Bush will go down as being a great President? I am just wondering about a scenario where we actually win and install a stable friendly gov in Iraq. Wouldn't that be fairly significant in terms of overall world peace? This considering that the middle east is one of if not the most unstable areas in the world, I think that would be a huge accomplishment. I'm not saying it's going to happen, however it just occured to me that bringing peace in an area that has been unstable for centuries is a pretty monumental feat.
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FrenchSocialist
DarwinianLeftist
Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 883
Last seen: 16 years, 9 months
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Oh if we win the war I would give him a vote for God.
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"Both liberty and equality are among the primary goals pursued by human beings through many centuries; but total liberty for wolves is death to the lambs" -- Isaiah Berlin
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Andy21
Armchairanarchist
Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 288
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
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If that ever happened I would literally eat my own ass.
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 Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Bush is already going down as a great president in respects to college textbooks discussing his policy initiatives, his stance on preemption, and further the war on iraq... I had a poli (typo) sci class recently
If we win the war we still have all his other failures to gloat about and his allusions to iraq and terrorist networks, etc...
As far as historians go he will be ranked among the worst presidents irregardless of the outcome.
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
Edited by Psychoactive1984 (05/25/07 10:30 AM)
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blackegg
...has left the building.
Registered: 01/25/06
Posts: 1,021
Last seen: 15 years, 8 months
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Psychoactive1984,are you saying the Historians will rank him as the worst or are they already saying he's great??
Also, I think the trick is to fight not just terrorism but fundamentalist religion in general. This means trying to keep the kooky spooky people ( who believe they speak for God ) from taking over in our own country as well!
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'Pain is meant to wake us up. People try to hide their pain. But they're wrong. Pain is something to carry, like a radio. You feel your strength in the experience of pain. It's all in how you carry it. That's what matters. Pain is a feeling. Your feelings are a part of you. Your own reality. If you feel ashamed of them, and hide them, you're letting society destroy your reality. You should stand up for your right to feel your pain and leave the Shroomery.' ~ Jim Morrison
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barfightlard
tales of theinexpressible
Registered: 01/29/03
Posts: 8,670
Loc: Canoodia
Last seen: 14 years, 3 months
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No.
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"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks
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Flop Johnson
Praise Skatballah
Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 13,789
Loc: TX
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Not really. But then again "winning" isn't really possible, we aren't gonna be able to ride in on our horse and change thousands of years of bad blood.
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Re: If we win the war [Re: blackegg]
#6965114 - 05/25/07 10:19 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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He is already ranked among the worst presidents, bottom of the barrel so to speak... so irregardless of the outcome his place is spoken for.
However how he will appear to the common american in 20-30 years will be vastly different as a result of spin... trust me its already occuring. My book for lmy poli sci class wouldn't stop going on about how great a person he is and what a campassionate conservative he was, ranking him akin to reagan in regards to his initiatives.... pure drivel.
Oh, btw if you haven't noticed it yet the kooky spooky folks have already pretty much taken over the country... your just falling for the facade of freedom.
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
Edited by Psychoactive1984 (05/25/07 10:30 AM)
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OneMoreRobot3021
Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 61,026
Loc: the sky
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Quote:
MoeRon said:
Not really. But then again "winning" isn't really possible, we aren't gonna be able to ride in on our horse and change thousands of years of bad blood.
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Acid doesn't give you truths; it builds machines that push the envelope of perception. Whatever revelations came to me then have dissolved like skywriting. All I really know is that those few years saddled me with a faith in the redemptive potential of the imagination which, however flat, stale and unprofitable the world seems to me now, I cannot for the life of me shake.
-Erik Davis
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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Quote:
Bush is already going down as a great president in respects to college textbooks discussing his policy initiatives, his stance on preemption, and further the war on iraq... I had a poli sci class recently
One college textbook is not an adequate sample to be generalizing to all other college poli. sci. textbooks. I've had political science courses and read political science textbooks for the past four years and I never saw this bias. I would guess that either your professor was biased and chose a biased textbook or you're lying.
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Psychoactive1984
PositiveCynicist
Registered: 02/06/05
Posts: 3,546
Loc: California, Monterey Coun...
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Re: If we win the war [Re: Redstorm]
#6965496 - 05/25/07 12:10 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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The professor taught adequately and was a liberal, but didn't disdain bush but was rather indifferent, but the textbook wasn't. I recently just sold my book back (2 days ago) and can't find the title for a summer session (doesn't have fall session updated just summer, pm for the information if you want) from the schools bookstore or else I'd provide it.
As to me lying... what would be the point, I have nothing to gain, and I am typically forthright in my posts more so then in real life.
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"Their is one overriding question that concerns us all: How can we get out of the fatal groove we are in, the one that is leading towards the brink?" Albert Szent-Gyorgyi
"We may not be capable of eradicating the corruption of reason, but we must nevertheless counter it at every instance and with every means." Dan Agin
"Politics is the best religion and politicians are the worst followers."
-It's ok to trip as long as you don't fall.
-Substance over Style.
-Common sense is uncommon.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Not much more forthright than this:
Quote:
As far as historians go he will be ranked among the worst presidents irregardless of the outcome.
Yep, no matter what happens he will be ranked among the worst
And stop using "irregardless". It's a nonsense word. Regardless is just fine.
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Quote:
relativexistance said:
Do you think Bush will go down as being a great President? I am just wondering about a scenario where we actually win and install a stable friendly gov in Iraq. Wouldn't that be fairly significant in terms of overall world peace? This considering that the middle east is one of if not the most unstable areas in the world, I think that would be a huge accomplishment. I'm not saying it's going to happen, however it just occured to me that bringing peace in an area that has been unstable for centuries is a pretty monumental feat.
To answer your question: Yes. If Iraq is mostly stable by the time he leaves office, Bush will eventually -- ceteris paribus -- come to be regarded as a great or, more likely, near-great president. You need to understand: The historians that decide such things adore the state, and they lionize to no end a president that does his part to further the aggrandizement of state power -- especially if this is done through a victorious war. It should come as no surprise that FDR and Lincoln are among the greatest Presidents, while Wilson and Truman are usually counted among the near-greats; all four presided over both wars and -- as war is the health of the state -- dramatic increases in state power.
I sincerely hope that history will excoriate this president and his policies.
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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: If we win the war [Re: Ancalagon]
#6966660 - 05/25/07 06:39 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ancalagon said:
I sincerely hope that history will excoriate this president and his policies.
So, you are actively rooting for his policies to fail? Please tell me you chose the wrong word because I really don't want to conclude that you are a traitorous asshole. Maybe "vindicate" would be a better choice, Yank? Yank?
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian
Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 15 years, 2 months
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Re: If we win the war [Re: zappaisgod]
#6966698 - 05/25/07 06:49 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Ancalagon said:
I sincerely hope that history will excoriate this president and his policies.
So, you are actively rooting for his policies to fail? Please tell me you chose the wrong word because I really don't want to conclude that you are a traitorous asshole. Maybe "vindicate" would be a better choice, Yank? Yank?
I chose precisely the correct word. Even if Iraq stabilized tomorrow I would number this president among our worst. Enough people -- Iraqis and Americans -- have died as a result of President Bush's splendid little war that it is virtually past redemption, in my eyes. (Spare me; I know how little redemption to me means in the grand scheme of things.)
I'll not lie: I'm torn to some degree. On one hand I do want his policies to fail; failure means -- I sincerely hope -- another, hopefully more acute, Vietnam Syndrome, wherein we go not abroad in search of monsters to destroy for a generation or so. On the other hand, I realize his policies failing means more people dying -- which I, of course, in no way wish for. My hope, if you wish to know, is simply that the killing will end, to the greatest extent possible. I believe that the best chance for the most killing to end will come through a removal of U.S. troops, rather than through a continuation of the status quo or a redoubled surge.
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?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.?
-Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
I am just wondering about a scenario where we actually win and install a stable friendly gov in Iraq.
Huh? there has already been 3 or 4 highly trumpetetd elections and a government that is as friendly as can be expected.
I think you need a better definition of 'win', something the conservative Repubs have been unable to supply.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole
Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 10 months
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Re: If we win the war [Re: Ancalagon]
#6966729 - 05/25/07 07:01 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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That's just beautiful. You wish failure upon the policies of those in charge because you want your policies to be enacted, regardless of efficacy. You are essentially evil. I can't think of any other way to put it. You are rooting for failure to make a policy statement, even though lives are at stake. Utterly disgusting. I didn't know that about you.
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SunshineSuperman
Mad Hatter
Registered: 01/16/07
Posts: 415
Loc: Shangri La
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
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Re: If we win the war [Re: zappaisgod]
#6966739 - 05/25/07 07:04 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Just curious...but the war is on "terrorism", not Iraq...isn't it impossible to fight an idea?
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Phred
Fred's son
Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
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It is unfortunate indeed that those who came up with the phrase chose to use one noun instead of another. The more accurate way to phrase it is "War on Terrorists".
You are however correct in noting that Iraq is just the most active battlefront of the war at the moment. Even if the coalition forces were to abandon the Iraqi people to their fate tomorrow, the war will continue.
Phred
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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saddam hussein was a "freindly stable gov in iraq"..and if KG manages to bring back something similar..then its no huge accomplishment.. much less an accomplishment to make KG into the messiah he thinks he is...
more than likely..however..KG will define "victory" as simply delivering iraqi oil into the hands of his campaign sponsors..in which case he will try to parlay that victory into other countries (he is already trying to grab iran before he even has iraq)..until he pisses off somebody that really does have nukes...
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"anchor blocks counteract the process of pontiprobation..while omalean globes regulize the pressure"...
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Syle
Kenai Sigh
Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: If we win the war [Re: Annapurna1]
#6967401 - 05/25/07 10:01 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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ah, KG = King George, took me a second to get that.
witty, sort of lame though.
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https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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Re: If we win the war [Re: Syle]
#6967409 - 05/25/07 10:03 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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sorry..but i just got sick of typing it out...
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Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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If we win this war, I'll dance a jig in a cheerleader outfit.
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Annapurna1
liberal pussy
Registered: 05/21/02
Posts: 5,646
Loc: innsmouth..MA
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Re: If we win the war [Re: Silversoul]
#6967469 - 05/25/07 10:13 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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if we win this war..then there will others...and there might be even if we dont win it...
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zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: If we win the war [Re: Annapurna1]
#6967604 - 05/25/07 10:45 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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If we win this war brownies will dance high-stepping from the primeval forest, fairies will flit about, and the Land will be returned again to the people as in the days of Yore..
*wakes up*
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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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beatnicknick
The Innovator
Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 1,074
Last seen: 12 years, 10 months
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Re: If we win the war [Re: zorbman]
#6968475 - 05/26/07 05:50 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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I don't think we can "win" due to the fact that the decision to fight this country was a failure in the first place. If we weren't in Iraq right now, there wouldn't be this insane amount sectarian violence. Oh, sure, people can vote. But what does that mean when their relatives are dead? Did they choose to die for freedom? Or did we choose to let them die for freedom?
Okay here apply this your own life Phred, Zappaisgod. Lock yourself inside all day today. Go ahead now. Lock the doors. Now sit down and worry about if your son will make it home from school today. Do you feel liberated? Sure you can go vote now but your wife is dead due to the exponential increase in violence and your brother is in a growing insurgent group. The violence is getting worse and the people you voted in didn't do anything to drastically improve your lifestyle. You'd rather have your wife. Enjoy that little realisation?
It is not inscribed in stone that at some point of our Iraq occupation people will stop killing each other. That seems to be something a lot of bushies cannot comprehend.
And how long do you Bushies propose we stay? As long as it takes? We'd be in quite a financial situation, no? How patriotic is screwing over your own country.
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I don't think for myself. I think as though I'm explaining my thoughts to someone else. I'm concerned only for those listening.
Edited by beatnicknick (05/26/07 06:04 AM)
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
Posts: 5,501
Loc: oz
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ok...lets sit down for a second and sort out some details...
1) If Iraq becomes a stable place, how is it a direct result of bush? there are many other people involved in this process than him. he's just a figure head, he's not out there doing the dirty deed. sure he has some power, but there are so many other people that influences what is happening that one man cannot be accounted for the total result. history books and all that stuff lead us to believe that 'one man is responsible' but that is not true. it takes many to wage a war, it take taxpayers funds, it takes soldiers, it takes time and effort in many areas, lets skip bush cause he's not the SOLE person to blame.
2) what does a 'win' actually mean? a stable government in Iraq? well what does that mean? people at peace? sorry, that's not going to happen any time soon. even if the troops pull out, there will be fighting. even if the troops stay, there will be fighting. we are essentially looking at the same scenario as what happened in Yugoslavia, and the Bosnians and Serbs still hate each other immensely. there's even breakouts of fighting here in Australia at a fuckin tennis match. a 'win' in this situation is just a false idea based on a premise that is equally as hollow.
3) what's next for the Iraqi people after a stable government is put in place? their economy is in shambles at the moment and will take decades to recover. people will still be in poverty, and people in poverty with little to lose will not act in the way we see as 'civilised' Sudan, Ethiopia, Congo, Somalia, and other areas are an example of this. fighting poverty and getting humans to a standard of living that we have in the states is what might help this fighting to cease on the level that we see it.
unfortunately this is not gonna happen. if everyone in the world had our standard of living, our world would be in shambles because we do not live sustainably, therefore we must take a lot from other areas which places people in the third world at a disadvantage.
a win? bad concept. and if the democrats get into power, they will have to try to clean up this awful mess, and if they pull out without giving a helping hand, then they will be linked by the right as weak and a 'I told you we should have stayed' attitude will develop.
zappaisgod, i find your choice of words ineffective in a discussion, downright rude, and really places you on the level of childsplay. I'm sure you don't care, but if you actually cared about your point of view is seen in a discussion then you wouldn't be calling people an asshole or a traitor. and if you do not care about your point of view getting across to others, then your keystrokes are an even more fruitless endeavor. your words mimic the same type of hate built upon an ideology that the terrorists have.
not only that, but when a person says that they want a policy to fail, it doesn't translate into that they want people to die. Using your logic I could say the same about you. since you support the troops staying, you are a traitorous bastard to the since you equally want the death of people. how? well by your standards, the troops are there killing people, you support them, therefore you support the death of others. see how illogical it is?
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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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makaveli8x8
Stranger
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: If we win the war [Re: kaiowas]
#6968815 - 05/26/07 09:19 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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um what if king george said to himself.....i want to be famous, i want to be remembered forver. Its extreemly hard to be perfect so he desided its so easy to be horrible and ill still be remembered if not more!
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   We were sent to hell for eternity  Ø h®
We play on earth to pass the time 
Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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xaxphaanes
Mycologist
Registered: 08/08/05
Posts: 2,988
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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like kaiowas said there really isnt any winning since they will all still hate each other this war has to be the most moronic thing we could have done but hey what choice did we have they attacked us we have to attack them thats how it works but it will never end we will just continue to steal there oil
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"Anything i say is fictional"
what you should look for in manure
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SlashOZ
:D
Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
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Re: If we win the war [Re: xaxphaanes]
#6970832 - 05/26/07 08:16 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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we are at war?!?!?! i could have sworn it was the sunnis and the shiites who are at war with eachother and the US is playing the UN in Iraq except we can shoot first and ask questions later....
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"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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If we manage to install a friendly, democratic, and lasting regime in Iraq then Bush will be viewed much more positively than he is now.
Do I hope this happens? Hell yes. Do I think that it is going to happen? No. The Arabs are incapable of supporting such a government because their societies are so fucked up.
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makaveli8x8
Stranger
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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maybe they don't support giving up their freedoms, and because of this is why there is so much violence....they are constintly fighting for it.
also consider, slave country slike ourown like terrorizing free countrys.....which not only causes economic problems but really pisses them off to.
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We were sent to hell for eternity Øh®
We play on earth to pass the time
Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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Slave countries like our own? 
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makaveli8x8
Stranger
Registered: 02/28/06
Posts: 21,636
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
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Re: If we win the war [Re: Redstorm]
#6976168 - 05/28/07 01:50 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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exactly like our own, the only thing we are missing are the chains....wait i get it now we earn the right to not wear them as long as we do what were told.
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We were sent to hell for eternity Øh®
We play on earth to pass the time
Over-population the root of all Evil-brings the Elites Closer to the gates.
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SlashOZ
:D
Registered: 10/20/06
Posts: 3,557
Loc: Following the water cycle
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so how many of your daily activities are illegal and if caught could get you sent to jail? i'm willing to bet that drug use is the only thing you do that is illegal. so one habit out of your entire life is illegal. i'm sorry but how does our government severely limit your freedom? even though you break the law the police cannot search your house without due process, they don't follow you around. they don't randomly search houses for drugs, there are no random police checkpoints entering or leaving a city. there are no walls put up to keep people from leaving washington to go to oregon. we can buy pretty much any tangible "thing" on the planet except for a few drugs and guns. big brother is ruining your life isn't he??? please get real...
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"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
"Life's a bitch and then you die that's why we get high cuz you never know when you're gonna go." - NAS
"When people don't know what you're about they put you down and shut you out" - Black Sabbath
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind" - Gandhi
"Look up at me I am God, look down on me and I am evil, look at me I am you." - Charles Manson.
"Don't question my reality." - Me (as far as I know)
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs
Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 5 months, 26 days
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I'd love to hear your justifications for why we are a slave country, if you have any at all.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum
Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
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Quote:
RandalFlagg said:
If we manage to install a friendly, democratic, and lasting regime in Iraq then Bush will be viewed much more positively than he is now.
An "installed" democracy is an oxy moron. Pretending that a government "by and for the people" is possible in a country as ravaged by chaos as Iraq is ridiculous. Of course if we hadn't started fucking around with who was in charge in Iraq decades ago things might be a little different.
So no we won't win the war. If somehow the people of Iraq manage to turn things around for themselves and establish a particapatory democracy, good for them. And I will take back everything bad I said about Bush if he has something to do with it.
I sincerely don't care what happens to the battle between right and left as long as justice begins to be served in global politics. I don't know how that will ever happen though.
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Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
- Thomas Paine
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TGRR
Horrible Bastard
Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2,084
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Quote:
relativexistance said:
Do you think Bush will go down as being a great President? I am just wondering about a scenario where we actually win and install a stable friendly gov in Iraq. Wouldn't that be fairly significant in terms of overall world peace? This considering that the middle east is one of if not the most unstable areas in the world, I think that would be a huge accomplishment. I'm not saying it's going to happen, however it just occured to me that bringing peace in an area that has been unstable for centuries is a pretty monumental feat.
Yep. And if tiny apes came running out of my ass swinging chains, that would be pretty cool, too (and slightly more likely).
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TGRR
Horrible Bastard
Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2,084
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Quote:
RandalFlagg said:
If we manage to install a friendly, democratic, and lasting regime in Iraq then Bush will be viewed much more positively than he is now.
How the fuck do you INSTALL a DEMOCRACY?
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What can we do to help you stop screaming?
Official Mr Shoebat lackey.
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zorbman
blarrr
Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: If we win the war [Re: TGRR]
#6980683 - 05/29/07 02:13 AM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
How the fuck do you INSTALL a DEMOCRACY?
Great question.
I don't think you can "force freedom" on anybody. Those two words just don't go together. Apart from the inherent contradictions ( which border on lunacy ) in this case there is no recent tradition of self-rule in Iraq. Freedom doesn't just appear magically one day; It is the result of sacrifice and unity for a common cause over a period of time. Freedom is earned, not handed to someone on a platter.
The groundwork must be laid first.
The supreme irony for the Bush zoo crew is that probably the only way out of their mess is to install a strong man which is exactly what they had before in the person of Saddam Hussein (A dictator who was contained militarily and posed no threat to the United States).
[But a convenient bogeyman].
Their stupidity is laid bare.
Maybe they should install Jeb Bush or Paul Wolfowitz as Supreme leader. They don't give a damn about democracy and never did. They just want their boy in there and anything else is just neo-con men spin.
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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
Edited by zorbman (05/29/07 07:16 AM)
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Quote:
gluke bastid said:
An "installed" democracy is an oxy moron.
True. If the native people cannot fight for, bring about, and maintain it themselves then it is doomed to failure.
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TGRR
Horrible Bastard
Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 2,084
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Re: If we win the war [Re: zorbman]
#6984170 - 05/29/07 09:09 PM (16 years, 10 months ago) |
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Quote:
zorbman said:
Maybe they should install Jeb Bush or Paul Wolfowitz as Supreme leader. They don't give a damn about democracy and never did. They just want their boy in there and anything else is just neo-con men spin.
It ain't gonna be Wolfowitz. After they blew up his hotel on his last trip there, he'll never be taken seriously again.
Invasion: $55,000,000,000.00
Occupation: $1,200,000,000,000.00
Watching the representative of the most powerful man on Earth run down the street in his jockey shorts: Priceless.
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What can we do to help you stop screaming?
Official Mr Shoebat lackey.
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