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OfflineGrok
Has Been a Bad Boy
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Registered: 12/03/03
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Re: This loving heart. [Re: DrCamacho89]
    #6961522 - 05/24/07 01:01 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I also grew up without much love, and it wasn't because of bad intention, but because I think my family generally loathed themselves. This led me to the same state of self-loathing for much of my youth and if I hadn't found for myself that there is a force of love that exists throughout/drives/creates the universe and life and showed me to love myself, there is no way I would be alive right now. The human condition is one that requires love; and as simplistic as it seems a lot of the worlds problems really do come from a lack of love on our planet IMO.

I too have been immersed in peaks of unconditonal love of everything, also finding them to be the most transforming expereinces of my life. It was like seeing through the eyes of God. Someone could have walked up and shot me and I would have still loved them then; I felt so happy and unafraid that I was ready to die in that moment. I understood how real unconditional love truley is the only unconquorable, unstoppable force for radical change. The power of God is in our hearts, not in the sky, in bullets, or bombs.

But it's so easy to lose sight of this and forget, and to fall back into old patterns, to start loving with condition and passing judgment on mundane things. It takes a tremendous amount of courage to love unconditionally; more than anything else perhaps. Our media glorifies the couarge and bravery of people who fight our wars but this is nothing compared to the couarge to stand up to all the hate and fear and choose love instead, even in the face of imminent death. When you love unconditionally you are completely vulnerable. You have to be totally unafraid. You have to know that there is nothing to be afraid of, and in a consensus reality governed by fear, which is so easy to fall into the influence of, it is nearly impossible to maintain this state.

Everything is possible, and I believe that it is first through knowing that it is possible for one's self to love everything without condition and be totally unafraid of anything - of dying, of losing everything, etc. I know it is! This is what so many religious figures have realized, that the kingdom of heaven can be RIGHT HERE NOW if only...

But talk is cheap. I often do not meaure up to my own standards, I fail to practice what I preach...and then I have lost the unconditional love of myself, and that's where it all has to start.

"Most of the cast that you meet on the streets speak of true love,
Most of the time, they sittin' and cryin' at home..." - Jerry Garcia


--------------------
Entropy is increasing.
To send me a PM, go to my journal

Edited by cilosyb (05/24/07 01:03 PM)

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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 15 days
Re: This loving heart. [Re: DrCamacho89]
    #6961540 - 05/24/07 01:06 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DrCamacho89 said:
Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Sharing & creating their own reality and being totally absorbed by the fullness of the situation :smirk:





Beautifully put. :thumbup: I miss that so much and will continue to search a way to find that again...

Here is a video that I found that really applies to my current situation and I think can be appreciated by all of us romantics floating around out there...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KUVnKz_deUA




Awesome video, thank you sharing the link :laugh:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: This loving heart. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6961558 - 05/24/07 01:11 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

As I said, your mileage may vary. Only time and trials will tell whether what you currently deem "true" love will live up to the high standards you've set. Life is messy, and the understanding of that statement only comes with age and experience, IMO.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: This loving heart. [Re: Grok]
    #6961656 - 05/24/07 01:36 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

This is what my first post is all about.:sun: Somehow it got derailed. But it's the day to day challenge of loving. Being able to not get what you would prefer and still deciding it's better to love what is. To continue to struggle to be loving to yourself and others when you don't see a good example for it. It's a very gutsy thing for sure. I applaud your attitude.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: This loving heart. [Re: Veritas]
    #6961677 - 05/24/07 01:40 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
As I said, your mileage may vary.  Only time and trials will tell whether what you currently deem "true" love will live up to the high standards you've set.  Life is messy, and the understanding of that statement only comes with age and experience, IMO.




I can only remember back to my last relationship when I said "this is true love". And then the one before that and the one before that.:grin: Of course I choose to forget I had said that to myself  each time a new "perfect" love came along. I no longer predict about romance and take things a day at a time as best I'm able.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (05/24/07 01:54 PM)

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InvisibleVeritas
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Posts: 11,089
Re: This loving heart. [Re: Icelander]
    #6961709 - 05/24/07 01:48 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Perhaps the problems in "application" exist because we somehow expect the feeling of love to make the action of loving happen?

Early in a relationship, we're excited and thrilled with the novelty and wonder of "falling in love," and we may not notice the effort required to remain loving until that newness has faded. If we believe that the feeling should be enough to keep the relationship vital and growing and loving, disappointment is inevitable.

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Posts: 14,794
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Re: This loving heart. [Re: Icelander]
    #6961726 - 05/24/07 01:51 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Of course I choose to forget I had said that to myself each time a new "prefect" love came along.




I choose to remember all the :true loves" that I've had before... after all they're part of what brought me where I am right now :laugh: :smirk:

Quote:

I no longer predict about romance and take things a day at a time as best I'm able.




I don't predict either... I'm experiencing and manifesting my happiness. Love is about manifestation too (in my opinion).


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflineLion
Decadent Flower Magnate
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Registered: 09/20/05
Posts: 8,775
Last seen: 6 days, 7 hours
Re: This loving heart. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6961761 - 05/24/07 01:56 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Could you elaborate on what you mean by manifestation?


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
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Re: This loving heart. [Re: Lion]
    #6961784 - 05/24/07 02:00 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

bug said:
Could you elaborate on what you mean by manifestation?




I already did a lot of times throughout the thread... read my posts and you'll know, I hate repeating myself.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: This loving heart. [Re: backfromthedead]
    #6961794 - 05/24/07 02:01 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

backfromthedead said:
I feel that its about finding an example of what it is in the first place. I too grew up with little love. I had an abusive father who was a shining example of what is wrong in the world today. Dude is all about money and alcohol to this day. Hard to walk that path. Seems almost the path of most resistance due to my nature, conditioning, and upbringing.




All true. This is what makes being loving such a challenge. When we don't really know how to fully accept ourselves and love ourselves then we struggle to love the world we live in. It takes great courage to keep at it. I feels much easier to quit at times and just say "fuck it all". There are no guarantees of success or it getting easier. It's all up to us.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineEpigallo
Stranger
Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 8,155
Last seen: 7 years, 22 days
Re: This loving heart. [Re: Icelander]
    #6961960 - 05/24/07 02:58 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Do you think your position of being "not too interested in humanity", as you expressed in that thread a while ago, was present when you had that overwhelming experience of love?

Just curious where you're coming from.

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Offlinebackfromthedead
Activated


Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 3,592
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: This loving heart. [Re: Icelander]
    #6962026 - 05/24/07 03:19 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I find myself in the 'fuck it all' mode sometimes. Its almost like I don't want to let go of it. I feel that someday I might have to fight for love which I know makes no sense, if it comes down to that I need the power that 'fuck it all' brings. Twisted I know, but I am the mischievous type.


--------------------

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: This loving heart. [Re: backfromthedead]
    #6962074 - 05/24/07 03:36 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

backfromthedead said:
I find myself in the 'fuck it all' mode sometimes.  Its almost like I don't want to let go of it.  I feel that someday I might have to fight for love which I know makes no sense, if it comes down to that I need the power that 'fuck it all' brings.  Twisted I know, but I am the mischievous type.




What do you exactly consider so twisted about it?
What exactly is the nature "of fuck it all"?... I mean... in what sense... fuck it all meaning love... or fuck it all... what?:shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
Re: This loving heart. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6962095 - 05/24/07 03:45 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Its like if I had gone into the military or something, I would be convinced that what's going on in Iraq is a noble cause. (questionable:uptosomething:)
If I truly cared about other human beings I would have to develop a certain amount and quality of 'fuck it all' to be able to gun them down, obliterate their cities, destroy their country.  Upon coming home I would have to sweep the 'fuck it all' under the carpet.  Hope that shit doesn't bulge too much.


--------------------

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: This loving heart. [Re: backfromthedead]
    #6962118 - 05/24/07 03:55 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

How can a war ever, under any circumstance; be a noble thing? :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Offlinebackfromthedead
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Re: This loving heart. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6962186 - 05/24/07 04:20 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

When a pyramid structure of uniformed mouthpieces for hate and violence brainwash you into thinking you are doing the right thing.  When you are told that you are liberating an oppressed people.  When the goal is democracy.  It only makes it noble to the beholder.  War is terrible but this is how the world operates.  Do you think these 'soldiers' are capable of love when they come back??  I would think so...  Only because in their mind they have done 'good'.  Scary.
:banghead:


--------------------

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: This loving heart. [Re: Veritas]
    #6962352 - 05/24/07 05:20 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Love, in practical application, involves all the weird personality stuff we've collected over our lifetime.




Does it? What if one experiences this love, and this experience of this love naturally acts as an effective catalyst for personal growth? Like, propose it occurs in a manner that defies all conventional thought, dare say, defies our assumed nature of space-time. :smirk:

All of our weird personality stuff is always there. The paths we choose regarding our experience of reality and our mind determine how we will be effected by an experience of love of a magnificent degree, as we have been discussing. I see it no different than how we change when we have an experience of heightened awareness, especially as the love I personally refer to implies a heightened sense of awareness. :headbang: :heartpump:

Quote:


Infatuation is what we generally call "romantic love," and it lasts about six months, or until our brains become adjusted to the new chemical "soup" in which we're soaking them.  :grin:




This perspective of "romantic love" is much different than the way I have come to understand the concept, and the quotation I posted previously of what Wiki had to say seems to specifically make the distinction that "romantic love" is not infatuation. :confused:

Now, you state that it isn't exactly a determinate amount of time before these chemicals, which dissipate, and that the state of being described by "romantic love" will start to cease.

Is this true? Is it the chemicals creating the experience or is the experience directing the brain's chemical state? I know that this has been speculated on a lot, regarding psychiatry and everything. :smirk:

What if it never "wears off"? :grin:

Quote:


  Once this chemical high fades, the real relationship begins.




I simply cannot buy this. I think this perspective is what brings one's idealistic relationship to end, not chemicals fading away. :what: One can consciously create their relationship with their partner, in the present moment. It sounds much more that what you describe is to begin to center oneself out of one's being and the present moment, and to start living in the mind's conception of past again. That doesn't need to happen. :smile:

Quote:


The "pure bliss" part is something that we can come back to, but only if we get out of our own way.  (Maybe the chemical infatuation helps with this initially. :shrug:)




What if we are never in our own way, or if the experience of love genuinely progresses one towards not being in the way? I don't see how one could experience love and then slump away from it, if it is true love. :shrug:

Quote:


This often happens, IMO, because couples neglect to become friends as well as lovers.  Once they start to encounter obstacles, they decide that they have "fallen out of love" or that they did not have "true love" in the first place.




I disagree. I have been in love with someone in what I think was very much romantic love in a lot of ways but not in a complete, total way, and we also are very good friends. One really appreciates the time that one has shared, and that one has only good thoughts and wishes that they have the ultimately satisfying, amazing life, even as one wasn't the person to give it to them.

I think this only demonstrates that each relationship is entirely its own entity and that these patterns and tendencies you describe simply are not the "usual" case. :shrug:

Quote:


So-called romantic lovers are more likely to seek out the next "true" love, or be suddenly swept off their feet by an uncontrollable infatuation.  Then the cycle starts all over again, with the inevitable "falling out of love," disappointment, dishonesty, etc...




Yes, the "so-called" ones do act like that. What about the ones who are actually romantic lovers? :smirk:

Quote:


I'm quite a bit older than either of you, and have probably been through the "true love" cycle a few more times.




So you have been through the "true love" cycle a few times... have you ever been through the true love cycle? Its a much different cycle, and it doesn't lead one from one to another and another, but back in with one, in every moment, again and again, deeper and deeper... :yinyang: :smile: :heart:

Quote:


  FWG is familiar with Ken Keyes' take on relationships, and what is possible within a partnership, so he may understand where I'm coming from on this one.




I do not really recall what you might be referring to, but I am familiar with Handbook to Higher Consciousness and the understanding I have found through its influence on my life. It lead me on a path with the idea it gave me that one could create a path that will continually increase one's level of consciousness, as far as one would wish to immerse oneself, as quickly or as slowly as one wishes, realizing that we choose who we are and what we experience, and that choice is as free and instant as we allow it to be. :smile:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: This loving heart. [Re: Veritas]
    #6962367 - 05/24/07 05:24 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Early in a relationship, we're excited and thrilled with the novelty and wonder of "falling in love," and we may not notice the effort required to remain loving until that newness has faded.  If we believe that the feeling should be enough to keep the relationship vital and growing and loving, disappointment is inevitable.




Any relationship that we choose to experience as work and requiring effort to maintain the mutual state of being within that relationship is bound for failure. Here's your sign. :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
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Re: This loving heart. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6962390 - 05/24/07 05:33 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

To know love is to fully experience it. :mushroom2: I find myself in that state … with you. I love you with everything that I am :heartpump:... you are my happiness :yinyang:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: This loving heart. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6962413 - 05/24/07 05:42 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
How can a war ever, under any circumstance; be a noble thing? :shrug:




Reality is programmed linguistically through free association, especially through the media.

Thus what comes to mind when one thinks of war is a collage of fictinoal realities wherein there is always a "Clear and Present Danger" about to destroy a truely GOOD people and that these GOOD people are heros for destroying the EVIL people.

What we are taught about war is from the eyepiece on top of the pyramid as the mushroom avatar friend said..... so its easy to see how war is a good thing.

War is a good thing because it generates capital. It generates new land. It eradicates evil. It creates peace. It protects the homeland. It spreads healthy and sane ideas and kills insane ideas.

None of these are necessarily true, but they are all what is on the top of one's mind when he thinks about war because he thinks about it from inside the brains of those doing the propoganda work who believe they are fully justified in taking whatever they want and may or may not believe the stories they create to justify in the mind's of their pawns the motion necessary to get it.

For instance, Hitler succeeded in part because he destroyed all other ideas which said he was doing wrong, he evoked the Hero archetypes and wove in the threat archetypes, basically making him a Bible which to question evokes all sorts of dire consequences both physical (punishment) and mental (punishment) and one quickly finds that their reason is useless in eradicating the walls of tyranny because they are consequently reinforced by the rhetoric of the propoganda machine which operates in an instantly digestable measure of emotional pallets that are embedded deeply in the brain with vicious lions keeping those who harbor them from venturing into the much higher efforts necessary for critical thinking....... the critical thinkers are crucified and demonized and

its a prison system it is the eye and if the eye wants a pyramid it damn well has one!

our Army commercials do not show dead babies and crying mothers and soldiers writhing in agony, they show young strapping men getting pats on the back for serving their country, for being cool suave and sophisticated in learning all these massively kewl radical technologies that allow the grunts to kill with surgical proficiency from within the context of a video-game world.... and heavy metal masculine energy to the tune of rockets flying out of battle ships.

couple this with a lifetime of GI Joes and toy guns and war movies and violent media and you have a system which creates an entire generatino of young men ripe for recruitment.... we really don't need drafting when war is this damn cool.

Tim Leary was actually at West Point.....

plus we have to defend our loved ones from the boogeymen!

Edited by leery11 (05/24/07 05:47 PM)

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