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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 12,933
Re: Plant extract may block cannabis addiction [Re: fastfred]
    #6960221 - 05/24/07 06:14 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
> It implies that there is a physical, and biological mechanism which leads to "addiction".

There is. That's the whole point of the term "physical addiction".




Out of curiosity then: what are the biological/physiological mechanism that produce "addiction"? How come everyone who uses an "addicitve" drug doesn't become "addicted"?

The most famous example of this are American soldiers in vietnam, who had ready access to heroin. A relatively large percentage of soldiers used it. When they returned home, few developed any problems. A more anecdotal example would be cocaine in the late 80's-90's. It was simply the "cool" drug to do. Afterwards, people simply stopped.

Nicotine is another interesting drug. If you administer nictoine in non-tobacco form (lozenges, patches, etc.), under blinded conditions; pepole don't like it. People don't like the feeling and sensation. Giving people "denicotinzed" cigarettes will reduce their cravings as well.

There are a lot of factors involved in "addiction". The pharmacological properties of a given drug are just one variable out of hundreds.

Quote:

fastfred said:> "Physical dependence", and "physical withdrawal" do not imply someone is "addicted" to a particular substance.

Yes they do. The alternative is defining addiction in the ridiculous manner you and many others suggest.




But again, there are examples where the terms are not synonymous. If you quit taking SSRI's, you will have physical consequences. No one is out in the street killing people for SSRI's, or losing their jobs etc. Other drugs acting on the central nervous system cause a similar withdrawal effect.

Quote:

fastfred said:
This eliminates huge areas of research that might benefit mankind, but don't treat any specific disease.




It's a moot point but "research" and the commercial development of a drug are two different things.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436


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OfflineTurricaN
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Registered: 03/17/05
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Re: Plant extract may block cannabis addiction [Re: badchad]
    #6960986 - 05/24/07 10:24 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Addicting, lol. I've noticed a lot of people using that word in this thread. Is that a common mistake around the Shroomery or is it intentional?


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Plant extract may block cannabis addiction [Re: TurricaN]
    #6961177 - 05/24/07 11:17 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

> Out of curiosity then: what are the biological/physiological mechanism that produce "addiction"?

There's not time here for a biochemistry lecture. Do a little searching and you'll find plenty of research on mechanisms of addiction. There is all kinds of research on receptors, regulation, feedback systems, reward pathways in the brain, neurotransmitters, etc..

> How come everyone who uses an "addictive" drug doesn't become "addicted"?

The same reason that the same drug will affect different people differently. There are people that are sensitive to a drug, normal people, and resistant people.

Usage pattern also plays a good part in developing an addiction. You could probably smoke a cig a day for a decade and not become addicted, but at some level you get hooked.

> There are a lot of factors involved in "addiction". The pharmacological properties of a given drug are just one variable out of hundreds.

That depends again on how you define addiction. If you want to define it so vaguely then I guess you also have to say that there are hundreds of factors. That becomes job security for "addiction" counselors.

> No one is out in the street killing people for SSRI's

They are also legal and very easily obtained. Stronger SSRI's like Effexor can cause people to get really antsy when there is a problem getting their meds.

Addiction implies that you can't easily stop. For some people I'm sure that the minor side effects of SSRI withdrawl cause them to keep taking the med. Those people are addicted.


-FF


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OfflineDave_McGill
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Registered: 10/18/07
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Last seen: 12 years, 9 months
Re: Plant extract may block cannabis addiction [Re: fastfred]
    #7530254 - 10/18/07 06:42 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Before you take one look at this and think I'm not reading that it just looks really long because there's no punctuation but if u take drugs you need to read this

Quote:

1. Weed is not physically addicting. You smoke it because you like smoking it.




I think it is you who is in need of a reality check mateFirst of all you say weed is not physically addicting you smoke it because you like smoking itOK so would you smoke it if it didn't get you high then would you still like smoking it if it was like breathing in the smoke from a bonfire I think not the reason you smoke it is not because you like smoking it it's because you like the feeling it gives you when you smoke it you wouldnt smoke the leaves from a tree or other plants and you would think exactly the same way about weed it if it didn't get you high which brings me nicely onto my next point Weed isn't physically addictive it's "mentally" addictive! when you smoke a bong or a joint you get a rush of dopamine from the weed and a rush of dopamine from the tobacco this although it's going on in your mind is in fact a physical process and it's this process that you enjoy and what makes you want to take it again and it's exactly the same as what goes on in the lab the rats push the button and get the reward we take the bong and get the reward get the idea ok so that's the basic process you may still be thinking no physical withdrawal no physical addiction Now the myth that there is no physical withdrawal is bullshit but I won't get into that it's just no physical withdrawal when comparedto heroin withdrawal but anyway what about all the people who either have developed mental illness from heavy cannabis use or have had relationship troubles because of it or to generalise people who's lives cannabis has completely fucked up People that know this and don't want to take cannabis because either it's making them ill or changing their behaviour and therefore creating relationship problems and yet still take it on a daily basis Do you think these people are taking it because they like taking it Surely if it was a mental addiction and it was causing you more pain than pleasure it would be a piece of piss to give up In my opinion there's nothing different to being addicted to cannabis than there is to heroin except for the shakes and shivers the sweating etc and this is coming from a heroin addict who's quit twice and is still on it now I still smoke weed now but the only reason I'm not addicted to that any more is because the gear has replaced it but all my mates are still addicted to weed every single one of them and they keep quitting but it never lasts because as soon as you think of weed at all it triggers that anticipation and desire for the reward (ie a craving) so basically I partly agree with you in the sense that all it requires is willpower and getting away from your friends can help if you think they're all a bunch of c***s anyway but if they're good friends you'd be better off asking at least one of them to quit aswell because someone to be there to talk some sense into you when you get the craving can be a big bonus but then I disagree with the fact that it's all psychological because the craving isn't just a thought it's a thought which triggers a basic instinct which is the desire to smoke which I assume is stronger or lesser for people who smoke more or less weed

By the way my full stop and commas aren't working hence no punctuation
Do you agree
You may choose only one
yes
no


Votes accepted from (10/18/07 06:38 AM) to (No end specified)
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll



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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 7,901
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Plant extract may block cannabis addiction [Re: biggysmall]
    #7530698 - 10/18/07 10:11 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Gambling is more addictive than cannabis. Withdrawls are worse. This is just not needed, and I don't want anything fucking with my CB receptor sites.

I need them for my lust and appetite.


--------------------
Wiccan_Seeker said:
slide down a pole than with your legs spread and using your pussy as a brake. Ask the fire department :imslow:


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Registered: 11/02/03
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Re: Plant extract may block cannabis addiction [Re: tamshack]
    #7531387 - 10/18/07 02:13 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

tamshack said:
So uh... does this new drug also inhibit dopamine rises in other natural enjoyable activities, like maybe visiting loved ones? I really don't like the idea of a drug that inhibits the increase of dopamine




Yeah, that drug probobly would take the pleasure out of ANYTHING! Actually, dopamine blockers already exist, they are what you give to schizophrenic people.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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InvisibleFecalDildo
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Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 9,645
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Re: Plant extract may block cannabis addiction [Re: badreligion2good]
    #7533722 - 10/19/07 12:15 AM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

badreligion2good said:


Though there is no uncomfortable physical withdraw, like opiates or stimulants,




News flash! Stimulants do not cause physical addiction, why do so many people not know this simple fact.


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OfflineHB
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Registered: 04/06/01
Posts: 42,528
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Re: Plant extract may block cannabis addiction [Re: FecalDildo]
    #7536222 - 10/19/07 04:30 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

[To the "addictive/non-addictive" debate crowd]

I think that we should first define the term "addiction" before we argue what is addictive and non-addictive. Otherwise, we're all on a different page as to what exactly we are discerning between.

According to dictionary.com, the term "addiction" means:

Quote:

addiction
–noun
the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma.




If we use that as the universal definition, and I'd say it's pretty accurate, then yes, pot, or absolutely anything at all can be addictive, depending on the person and situation and so on. As the definition states at the very beginning, "the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice OR to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics". It does not distinguish that the only way to be addicted to something is to do so-called "hard drugs", thus if your habit is to pick up a bong and you can't help it, you aren't necessarily OCD, you're ADDICTED.

All the friends/acquaintances I've had who have stated that marijuana is the only "safe drug, the only non-addictive one, etc.", would end up exhibiting the same mood swings and cravings as meth/opiate addicts when they didn't have any pot ... the ONLY real difference being the INTENSITY of the mood swings and cravings, which obviously are not up there with meth and such. Having been addicted in the past to meth and opiates, I say this with experience and knowledge, not from a book.

Personally, if I smoke pot for over a month every day, multiple times a day, upon quitting I cannot sleep normally at night for at least a few days to a week and I'm quite irritable. There's no denying that these are symptoms of an addiction, however innocuous it may seem. These symptoms are not indicative of my natural state, rather they are real withdrawal symptoms. This is proven to me by the fact that smoking more will take away the symptoms, albeit temporarily. JUST like any other hard drug addiction.

As far as physical addiction goes, the only way I can personally define physical addiction is "that which makes your legs shaky and your body feel uncomfortable upon withdrawal". Thus, anything which does that I think can be defined as physical addiction.

Bottom-line of what I'm trying to say is it's useless trying to define some things as addictive and some as not. If you feel addicted to something, be it pot or shopping or gummi worms, and you suffer as a normal addict would upon withdrawal, it's safe to say that you really are addicted and should treat it as such.

Just my .02


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Plant extract may block cannabis addiction [Re: HB]
    #7539555 - 10/20/07 02:48 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

^^^ Spoken like someone who has no clue what a REAL physical addiction is. Try quitting something that you are actually addicted to and you'll quickly learn how laughable quitting a "bad habit" like MJ is compared to substances that actually are physically addicting.


-FF


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