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InvisibleaDoS
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stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis
    #6953817 - 05/22/07 08:55 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Ok, this is not a "errr marijuana is evil and it should stay illegal" thread. In fact, I love getting high. But I am sick of people saying the most retarded things about it.

People say cannabis is natural and not man made blah blah blah so its good for you. Very true, it is natural, but is it still natural when it is grown indoors with artificial light and nutrients being pumped into the plant? And it is NOT natural to get high. Seriously...how would harvesting a plant lighting it up and inhaling the smoke be natural?

Idiots say bud isn't a drug. Then wtf is it? It can be used as medicine...which is a drug. Gets you pretty ripped...which is a drug. And yes, it is possible to have an addiction, might not be that strong of an addiction but try getting stoned every night for a year before going to sleep and quit, and see how easy it would be to get to sleep. And it is very habit forming. Thats why half the people I know who do it are stoned all day everyday.

Compared to most drugs, yea, marijuana is pretty harmless. But half the shit people say about as a positive isn't true. The government no doubt uses propaganda to down cannabis, but theres the pro-cannabis people spreading propaganda about how GOOD it is also. So same shit, people doing this are no better then the government. And whats up with all of this hippie bullshit Natural = Good. Does it matter? without man-made things life would be pretty shitty. Theres some natural things that can be toxic and can kill you if you eat or smoke it. So please stop using a "its natural" excuse because it wouldn't matter if it was natural or not...

Ok so you can flame me if you want. I am not saying cannabis is bad for you, I am saying its not natural to do it, and it is a drug. Remember, I smoke bud myself, and I love it, but I am not going to feed my self lies to make me feel better about doing it. Overall, imo, cannabis is a very harmless DRUG.

discuss.


--------------------
"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution - then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." - Aldous Huxley
:drooling:GIVE ME OPIATES OR GIVE ME DEATH:drooling:

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: aDoS]
    #6953858 - 05/22/07 09:02 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I agree. Cocaine is natural too.

But it can't be denied that there's a veritable avalanche of new research showing almost outrageous beneficial effects of cannabinoids from pot. It's neuroprotective and it has potential to stave off Alzheimer's and slow the spread of cancer. Not mention adding to the quality of life of seriously ill people.

Granted there are a lot of downsides to smoking pot every day, but the propaganda and misperceptions created by the reefer madness movements outweighs the pro-pot propaganda by orders of magnitude.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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OfflineSebastian23
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: aDoS]
    #6953861 - 05/22/07 09:02 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Agree. :bigjoint::stoner:
I love to smoke it, too. :bigblunt: :bongload::bigjoint::jointsmile:


--------------------
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment
with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp
it was written on."
-Terence McKenna
Marijuana Myths Debunked

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InvisibleAgingHippy
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: aDoS]
    #6953870 - 05/22/07 09:03 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

i think they mean its natural and not a drug compared to other things that are chemically altered, but I know what you're saying.  Now I can't wait for the discussion over this :laugh:

*beat me to it

Edited by AgingHippy (05/22/07 09:04 PM)

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OfflineAKSE
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #6953881 - 05/22/07 09:05 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I agree. Cocaine is natural too.

But it can't be denied that there's a veritable avalanche of new research showing almost outrageous beneficial effects of cannabinoids from pot. It's neuroprotective and it has potential to stave off Alzheimer's and slow the spread of cancer. Not mention adding to the quality of life of seriously ill people.

Granted there are a lot of downsides to smoking pot every day, but the propaganda and misperceptions created by the reefer madness movements outweighs the pro-pot propaganda by orders of magnitude.




I wouldn't go that far to say cocaine is natural.  It's extracted from coca leaves with chemicals, not merely grown from the dirt and picked. :ohwell:

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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: aDoS]
    #6953888 - 05/22/07 09:05 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I think it's natural to get high, what do you think sex does to people?

As for cannabis being a drug, thats fine if you choose to apply a label to it it dosn't need. Chocolate, nicotine, heroin, cannabis, all could be considered drugs. Personally though, I'd rather just call them by their names to avoid any idiotic stigmas that only the word 'drug' can bring on.

Cannabis is good because its a harmless stress reliever, pain reliever, and mood enhancer. You don't consider this a positive? I think you are too wrapped up in labels. You can't say anything on this earth is 'good' or 'bad' you need to look at all aspects of somthing to give any logical, useful, judgement. You've not done this.

I'm not going to flame, but I do think you should look at the logic you have applied in this situation, analyse how much of what you said relies on stigmas words bring, not just the substances themselves.

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InvisibleaDoS
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #6953889 - 05/22/07 09:06 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I agree. Cocaine is natural too.

But it can't be denied that there's a veritable avalanche of new research showing almost outrageous beneficial effects of cannabinoids from pot. It's neuroprotective and it has potential to stave off Alzheimer's and slow the spread of cancer. Not mention adding to the quality of life of seriously ill people.

Granted there are a lot of downsides to smoking pot every day, but the propaganda and misperceptions created by the reefer madness movements outweighs the pro-pot propaganda by orders of magnitude.




I definitely recognize marijuana as medicine. I don't think marijuana being medicine is part of the pro-pot propaganda. But being a medicine, also means its a drug. Which I hear lots of douches saying, "its good for you because its not a drug."


--------------------
"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution - then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." - Aldous Huxley
:drooling:GIVE ME OPIATES OR GIVE ME DEATH:drooling:

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: aDoS]
    #6953902 - 05/22/07 09:07 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

we have them cannabanoid receptors though, so its like god created us with smoking pot in mind :wink: (not trying to say i believe in god, in fact i dont, but im just using it as an example thingy here)

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: aDoS]
    #6953905 - 05/22/07 09:08 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Well hey, I never said cannabis wasn't a drug. :laugh:

I do drugs... no shame in it.

Quote:

Amer said:
we have them cannabanoid receptors though, so its like god created us with smoking pot in mind :wink: (not trying to say i believe in god, in fact i dont, but im just using it as an example thingy here)




That's a misperception. They're only called cannabinoid receptors, and endogenous cannabinoids, because observing the activities of cannabinoids from marijuana in the brain led to their discovery. They're not there just to receive THC.

Edited by Tchan909 (05/22/07 09:10 PM)

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InvisibleaDoS
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: aDoS]
    #6953916 - 05/22/07 09:10 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Ok, I guess people say its natural because marijuana doesn't have to go through so many chemical changes. But if it was really natural to use it to get high, wouldn't you be able to eat it, without cooking it or anything and get the effects? Have any of you tried eating bud without cooking it to release the thc? Your body won't extract the thc when its eaten. So you have to put a flame to it to release the thc through smoke, or you have to use a lipids to heat the marijuana in to extract the thc. Remember though, just because its not natural, doesn't mean its bad for you...


--------------------
"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution - then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." - Aldous Huxley
:drooling:GIVE ME OPIATES OR GIVE ME DEATH:drooling:

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OfflineIgnatiusJReilly
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: aDoS]
    #6953922 - 05/22/07 09:12 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

seems perfectly natural to me to light up a plant and smoke it. it's natural to rape and murder, too. it's also natural to artificially inseminate heffers, chop em up and devour them in between two tasty buns. what's retarded is the repugnance with which we regard our impulses. but calling something unnatural is perfectly natural too, i suppose.


--------------------
"A Bad Day for Pants"

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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: aDoS]
    #6953941 - 05/22/07 09:14 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Please tell me your motive in calling anything a 'drug'?

The word drug can be used two ways, as a word to describe medicine, and as something to describe an illicit substance. Dugs can save as well as kill. So then, what is our societies absolutely asinine fixation on labeling things as 'drugs' to denounce a substance. This is the kind of thing that politicians do to sway the idiotic masses. How does one differentiate 'drug' from 'food'?

Certainly all drugs on this earth have been derived from natural sources, and presumably similar effects could be found when consuming those raw materials.

Cannabis, for instance, can be eaten just like lettuce if one so desired (I know I could, I love the taste of pot) So, if we now decide to smoke lettuce would it become a drug? Of course one could site that lettuce has no mind-altering chemicals, but then again, neither does pepto-bismol, and we consider it and many other benign chemicals drugs rather than simply foods.

Can we please cease the idiotic use of the label (drug), if not only just for the sake of some intelligent discussion in this thread?

Edited by xFrockx (05/22/07 09:15 PM)

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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: IgnatiusJReilly]
    #6953943 - 05/22/07 09:15 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

"Natural" and "artificial" things are artificial, manmade distinctions... and that redundancy invalidates the whole idea from a cosmic perspective. We are behaving naturally as humans do, even when we do some of the most repugnant and evil shit imaginable.

Nature is repugnant and evil too. Parasites, viruses, predators, all thrive by whatever means necessary - however grotesque and insidious. It doesn't need or even try to justify itself by any means save the continued existence of those life forms which, by human standards, are truly evil. The idea breaks down and the absurdity becomes clear.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


Edited by Tchan909 (05/22/07 09:18 PM)

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OfflineSebastian23
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: aDoS]
    #6953950 - 05/22/07 09:16 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I consider marijuana a drug because it is a chemical that alters your brain chemistry in small amounts, just like any drug.

Most people think something has to be synthetic to be considered a drug, but that isn't always true.


--------------------
"If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment
with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp
it was written on."
-Terence McKenna
Marijuana Myths Debunked

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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #6953959 - 05/22/07 09:18 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Examination of the good or evil of anything has no logical grounds. Things are not good or evil. Things simply are.

Blame Occam

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InvisibleaDoS
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #6953964 - 05/22/07 09:18 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
"Natural" and "artificial" things are artificial, manmade distinctions... and that redundancy invalidates the whole idea from a cosmic perspective. We are behaving naturally as humans do, even when we do some of the most repugnant and evil shit imaginable.

Nature is repugnant and evil too. Parasites, viruses, predators, all thrive by whatever means necessary - however grotesque and insidious. And it has nothing to do with us.




yea exactly, nature can suck just as much as man made things, thats why its so annoying when hippies give the excuse for using marijuana because its "natural"


--------------------
"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution - then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." - Aldous Huxley
:drooling:GIVE ME OPIATES OR GIVE ME DEATH:drooling:

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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: Sebastian23]
    #6953973 - 05/22/07 09:20 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Sebastian23 said:
I consider marijuana a drug because it is a chemical that alters your brain chemistry in small amounts, just like any drug.




Not all drugs alter brain chemistry. As I posted before, using the word drug in and of itself is asinine. By applying such a blanket term one automatically makes numerous and conflicting assumptions.

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: IgnatiusJReilly]
    #6953984 - 05/22/07 09:21 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I don't really care what people say about anything..

Just ignore it, move on, and find a better smoking spot. :rasta:

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: aDoS]
    #6954005 - 05/22/07 09:25 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

aDoS said:
yea exactly, nature can suck just as much as man made things, thats why its so annoying when hippies give the excuse for using marijuana because its "natural"




Well, if you're going to use that arguement, where does one draw the line between natural and unnatural? Humans are simply animals, we manipulate nature to make our tools. So if there is a distinction of 'natural' and 'unnatural' then there has to be a clear and logical distinction. If a monkey wove a basket, would it still be natural? What about when a human melts metal into a form, how does chemical manipulation differ from the simple physical manipulations of tools besides being on a different scale?

I contest that all things are natural, or at least within the definition of 'natural,' as all things in our world are of the same matter, be it manipulated by human hands or not.

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: xFrockx]
    #6954095 - 05/22/07 09:40 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

there are books about animals that are drawn to certain plants because of their altering effects. i can't remember any titles i'll do some searching and post back if i get results

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: xFrockx]
    #6954149 - 05/22/07 09:50 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Is it not natural for people to eat things, smoke things, and make cars out of things?

If not, I guess I was wrong all along......

The natural shit is the stuff that can really fuck with you.

Datura is all natural........... So try it...........lol
I liked it in a weird way, but that doesnt mean you are not going to jump out of a fucking window if you are that guy who wants to jump out of a window because he is very sure that he is "high"......

Natural or synthed, they are all drugs that alter the way your brain works.

Call them all drugs if you want, because they are definately drugs that can fuck you way the hell up.

What you want to gain from synthed chemicals and all natural plants is another story.


--------------------
[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.

Edited by yageman (05/22/07 09:53 PM)

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: yageman]
    #6954159 - 05/22/07 09:52 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I totally agree man. Kind of like pro-shroom people who are anti-lsd because it's "manmade" (the ones I know in RL often think it makes your brain bleed too).

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: eyehavenoi]
    #6954172 - 05/22/07 09:54 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

animals and psychedelics
i haven't read it, but i figure it is worth mentioning.

Edited by eyehavenoi (05/22/07 09:55 PM)

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: xFrockx]
    #6954246 - 05/22/07 10:06 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
Please tell me your motive in calling anything a 'drug'?

The word drug can be used two ways, as a word to describe medicine, and as something to describe an illicit substance. Dugs can save as well as kill. So then, what is our societies absolutely asinine fixation on labeling things as 'drugs' to denounce a substance. This is the kind of thing that politicians do to sway the idiotic masses. How does one differentiate 'drug' from 'food'?.........Can we please cease the idiotic use of the label (drug), if not only just for the sake of some intelligent discussion in this thread?




a drug is a drug is a drug:
–noun
1. Pharmacology. a chemical substance used in the treatment, cure, prevention, or diagnosis of disease or used to otherwise enhance physical or mental well-being.

the big word there is enhance

you should call "bad" drugs narcotics

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: aDoS]
    #6954269 - 05/22/07 10:10 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

So fucking what if it's pumped full of nutrients and grown in better light?

That's like saying the winner of the biggest pumpkin contest is disqualified because they know how to grow a really good plant. It wasn't NATURAL. Of course it's natural. We're just giving way better odds than it would have had if we hadn't interfered.


Bad argument....

Edited by Newbie (05/22/07 10:12 PM)

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: HillbillyThoth]
    #6954282 - 05/22/07 10:12 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

HillbillyThoth said:
I totally agree man. Kind of like pro-shroom people who are anti-lsd because it's "manmade" (the ones I know in RL often think it makes your brain bleed too).




I only knew such people when I was very young.

Those folks will learn the common ground one day, especially if they keep using psychedelics and try some lsd here and there.

You just cant deny lsd if you think HBWR seeds are amazing, for example.

Chemistry is all natural, and done by the hand of humans.
If those who think the finger print of god cant be found in the chemical LSD, then may the god of what is logical and very real bite them in the ass..............

LSD is by far my favorite psychedelic.
Ayahuasca comes in second honestly.
At a large dose, ayahuasca was like mushrooms on speed and lsd(never tried mushrooms on speed and wouldnt try that)

It was more fuckered up than most people could imagine.
Best trip ever.

Best trip ever?............ For myself, yes, , but for others, No fucking way.

These are all "drugs".
You need to place them accordingly depending on how you experience them.


It has nothing to do with whether its natural or not.


--------------------
[quote]Me_Roy said:
You moron. Material is material is material.  No 'thing' fixes any situation.  If anything were so simple we would be living in a much better world.[/quote] <-----the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.
Thanks shroomery.

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: yageman]
    #6956184 - 05/23/07 10:39 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Many people seem to forget that the lines between "natural" and "unnatural" can be very blurred, depending on how you view things. Personally, I think that everything (including humans) is driven by the forces of nature, so I don't even see a reason to differentiate between the two.

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: TurricaN]
    #6956230 - 05/23/07 10:57 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah, it does piss me off when people assume mushrooms are somehow safer than LSD because they're "natural." They're active, when it comes down to it, because of a single chemical that is in fact closely related to LSD. It all breaks down to chemicals in the end. Sheesh.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.


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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #6956257 - 05/23/07 11:06 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

It's "natural" to get high in the sense that humans have been doing it since ancient Egypt and we only just decided that THIS PLANT IS EVIL because the Mexican immigrants brought it here with them.


--------------------
RogerRabbit said:
Don't assault your mycelium with peroxide.  That's like throwing acid in your girlfriends face just to see if it sizzles.

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #6956262 - 05/23/07 11:08 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

It is natural --- Artificial light or sun it is still getting the same rays to make it grow.

It is usually ingested in an unprocessed form for the most part, making that natural.

People have been getting high since ancient egyptians - it is natural for people to seek out things to make you high.

The processed forms being hash or keef and those aern't really processed just condensed trichs.

It is easy as hell to grow and you don't need chemicals to help it grow it is resistant to bugs, weather etc.

the only other "drugs" that seem to be natural to me are cocca leaves before the process it into cocaine, raw opium, magic mushrooms, amnita, and those seeds containing LSA

i'm sure i'm missing lots of "natural" drugs on that list

from what I assume you mean natural is "drugs" you can get high from in their raw form.


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OfflineRhizoid
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: aDoS]
    #6956342 - 05/23/07 11:35 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

This is pure linguistic confusion. "Natural" can mean both coming from nature and non-deviant, acceptable, safe etc. But those are completely different concepts. Two unrelated meanings of the same word.

Ebola, smallpox, and bubonic plague are "natural" in the first sense. Having sex and ingesting various herbs and chemicals in a responsible way are "natural" in the second sense (or should be in any sane society).

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: Rhizoid]
    #6956412 - 05/23/07 11:53 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Well, it depends on how you define "natural"...whether or not you place a value judgement on that term is up to you. If everything we consumed were truly "natural" and straight from nature, not modified by humans in any way, millions or perhaps billions of us wouldn't be alive right now. Our homes, clothes, vehicles, all the food we eat, drugs, everything we typically use would not be considered "natural" if this is your definition.

Human modification of "natural" items comes about with more highly evolved societies, and superior technology. The fact that everything we use is modified by humans shows that we have worked throughout evolution to overcome the limitations of nature. Unnatural is our modern way of living (and has been ever since our ancestors learned to modify sticks and stones for cutting and carving and stabbing). Again, it depends on your definition (I'm assuming any human modification), as well as whether or not you think "natural" is good or bad...here's a hint, you probably wouldn't be alive right now if it weren't for "unnatural" products of humans.

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Re: stop saying its natural to do it - cannabis [Re: heavensgate]
    #6956471 - 05/23/07 12:11 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Some people, think if something is natural its safe.But,some plants can kill you just as fast as some man-made drugs.My pain management doctor told me.It's not as bad, for you as some of the drugs you will be taking.Smoking it, isn't the very best for you. But, its just the fastest way into you're blood for relief. this what he said word for word.


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Re: stop saying its natural to do it - cannabis [Re: Brainiac]
    #6956526 - 05/23/07 12:19 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Everything is natural. A metal suit of armor is natural. It's made of elements found naturally in this world. It just required a little "human intervention" and perhaps a little bit of fire(welding, etc).

Don't think pot is any more natural. Even if you rephrase "I only do natural stuff" to "I only do stuff ready to go from the ground", it's still wrong.

Even weed, straight from the ground - in order for you to USE it, it requires "human intervention", and yes - FIRE(kinda like welding...).

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: aDoS]
    #6956621 - 05/23/07 12:37 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

aDoS said:
Ok, this is not a "errr marijuana is evil and it should stay illegal" thread. In fact, I love getting high. But I am sick of people saying the most retarded things about it.

People say cannabis is natural and not man made blah blah blah so its good for you. Very true, it is natural, but is it still natural when it is grown indoors with artificial light and nutrients being pumped into the plant? And it is NOT natural to get high. Seriously...how would harvesting a plant lighting it up and inhaling the smoke be natural?

Idiots say bud isn't a drug. Then wtf is it? It can be used as medicine...which is a drug. Gets you pretty ripped...which is a drug. And yes, it is possible to have an addiction, might not be that strong of an addiction but try getting stoned every night for a year before going to sleep and quit, and see how easy it would be to get to sleep. And it is very habit forming. Thats why half the people I know who do it are stoned all day everyday.

Compared to most drugs, yea, marijuana is pretty harmless. But half the shit people say about as a positive isn't true. The government no doubt uses propaganda to down cannabis, but theres the pro-cannabis people spreading propaganda about how GOOD it is also. So same shit, people doing this are no better then the government. And whats up with all of this hippie bullshit Natural = Good. Does it matter? without man-made things life would be pretty shitty. Theres some natural things that can be toxic and can kill you if you eat or smoke it. So please stop using a "its natural" excuse because it wouldn't matter if it was natural or not...

Ok so you can flame me if you want. I am not saying cannabis is bad for you, I am saying its not natural to do it, and it is a drug. Remember, I smoke bud myself, and I love it, but I am not going to feed my self lies to make me feel better about doing it. Overall, imo, cannabis is a very harmless DRUG.

discuss.




Not worth discussing. Cannabis is a plant. Get over it...

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Re: stop saying its natural to do it - cannabis [Re: aDoS]
    #6956625 - 05/23/07 12:38 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I would just like to suggest (as others on this post kinda have) that the dualistic view of natural vs. unnatural is imaginary.

it's allll onnnnee, mannnnn!

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: aDoS]
    #6956680 - 05/23/07 12:52 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I think alot of people take in because it is a naturally occuring drug, not that its natural to smoke it but that it doesnt get processed in a lab and therefore there is a much lower chance of it being made of something toxic being mixed in. You will rarely find weed that is actually laced with something because there is very little that smells and looks like weed.

Something like e however could easily be made of any number of household chemicals and could not be identified as such until after it is taken, and in some cases even not then.

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: TheHauntingSoul]
    #6957127 - 05/23/07 02:38 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

"I totally agree man. Kind of like pro-shroom people who are anti-lsd because it's "manmade" (the ones I know in RL often think it makes your brain bleed too)."


Yeah people like that are dumb shits, because unless they pick there own shrooms, which can be sketchy unless you know your shit, their buying them from some guy growing a couple flushes in his basement in a fish tank.

Get what I am saying? it could be considered man made that way aswell, just because its not chemicals be combined and cooked together it wasn't a life forum out on its own surviving and growing its self..man came along and altered it.

Just like marijuana is being altered all the time, Hell I love marijuana and I know its something that "society" calls a drug...drug is just a word that people gave a definition for just like all things...I believe all "drugs" where put on this earth for our enjoyment I am talking about natural grown drugs not man made now... they were put on earth for our enjoyment..but hey so is "Man made drugs" they were made by man for enjoyment.

they may not be good for the body but crack heads enjoy the high so they do it...as a hobbie which drug use is, its just a hobbie...another choice for all people to do as a form of entertainment.

anyway just my two cents " society's' view on drugs is way different from drug users view point...they view it as something harmful and bad and there for it is considered a drug because thats there definition..our view points on drugs are they make us happy and many other reasons there for base jumping, sex could all be viewed as drugs....see the word drug has no meaning its just how you perceive it.


--------------------
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: TheHauntingSoul]
    #6957193 - 05/23/07 02:56 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

TheHauntingSoul said:
I think alot of people take in because it is a naturally occuring drug, not that its natural to smoke it but that it doesnt get processed in a lab and therefore there is a much lower chance of it being made of something toxic being mixed in. You will rarely find weed that is actually laced with something because there is very little that smells and looks like weed.

Something like e however could easily be made of any number of household chemicals and could not be identified as such until after it is taken, and in some cases even not then.





The "drug" does not occur until you "process" it by fire in the "lab" of your pipe.

Get it? It's not weed, it's the THC they are after. SAME THING.

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: Mourningdove]
    #6957283 - 05/23/07 03:13 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Mourningdove said:
Quote:

aDoS said:
Ok, this is not a "errr marijuana is evil and it should stay illegal" thread. In fact, I love getting high. But I am sick of people saying the most retarded things about it.

People say cannabis is natural and not man made blah blah blah so its good for you. Very true, it is natural, but is it still natural when it is grown indoors with artificial light and nutrients being pumped into the plant? And it is NOT natural to get high. Seriously...how would harvesting a plant lighting it up and inhaling the smoke be natural?

Idiots say bud isn't a drug. Then wtf is it? It can be used as medicine...which is a drug. Gets you pretty ripped...which is a drug. And yes, it is possible to have an addiction, might not be that strong of an addiction but try getting stoned every night for a year before going to sleep and quit, and see how easy it would be to get to sleep. And it is very habit forming. Thats why half the people I know who do it are stoned all day everyday.

Compared to most drugs, yea, marijuana is pretty harmless. But half the shit people say about as  a positive isn't true. The government no doubt uses propaganda to down cannabis, but theres the pro-cannabis people spreading propaganda about how GOOD it is also. So same shit, people doing this are no better then the government. And whats up with all of this hippie bullshit Natural = Good. Does it matter? without man-made things life would be pretty shitty. Theres some natural things that can be toxic and can kill you if you eat or smoke it. So please stop using a "its natural" excuse because it wouldn't matter if it was natural or not...

Ok so you can flame me if you want. I am not saying cannabis is bad for you, I am saying its not natural to do it, and it is a drug. Remember, I smoke bud myself, and I love it, but I am not going to feed my self lies to make me feel better about doing it. Overall, imo, cannabis is a very harmless DRUG.


:stonedjerk:


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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: mskip23]
    #6957949 - 05/23/07 06:13 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I don't think you can say that something is healthy just because it's natural. Forget cocaine. Tobacco is definately natural.. and definately not healthy.

-K

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: k_muttsky]
    #6958918 - 05/23/07 09:18 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

For sure...there are plenty of "natural" poisonous mushrooms out there that will kill someone within hours of eating. Lots of people eat organic food because it is "natural" and therefore must be better and healthier. Of course this makes people feel better, so it gives a bit of a placebo effect, but in reality it's all the same.

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: heavensgate]
    #6958949 - 05/23/07 09:24 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Cannabis is natural. It's a plant. Smoking isn't natural. A desire for intoxication is not natural, or at least is rarely found outside of the human sphere. Sorted.


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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: EllisDSox]
    #6958974 - 05/23/07 09:30 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Actually, there are a few animals that are well known to get high. Cats go crazy over catnip, and I'm pretty sure there's some kinda lemur out there that spends most of its time eating psychoactive fruits and getting blitzed. I saw it on Animal Planet a long time ago but I can't remember much about it, golly I wonder why...

I like to think of drugs as sort of "optional neurotransmitters." You could say it's unnatural or you could say that you're simply exercising freedom of thought by actively selecting which neurotransmitters should go into your brain. Since it's the brain that ultimately makes the decision to do that, and the brain regulates its own neurotransmitter levels, you could say it's perfectly natural - albeit unorthodox and not quite jiving with the typical definition of neurotransmitters. But there's no inherent chemical property that differentiates neurotransmitters from drugs, so the separation is semantic.

Of course, the entire argument is nothing but semantics. I smoke weed every day, and I'm not really prepared to say whether it's "natural" or "unnatural" but I'm pretty sure it's not killing me. That's good enough for me.


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Edited by Tchan909 (05/23/07 09:33 PM)

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: EllisDSox]
    #6958995 - 05/23/07 09:35 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I just want to comment on the whole natural thing. I live in a hippie infested town and the new thing right now is "trying to find an herbal alternative to viagra". Their argument against viagra is that it's not natural.

I have no idea why so many people have this negative perspective on man made chemicals/things. Amanitas are natural and they aint all that great, arsenic is natural, mercury. A chemical is a chemical and should not be looked at from an biased viewpoint.

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: mushroomplume]
    #6959022 - 05/23/07 09:40 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

elephents get drunk off fermented fruit as well, monkey's like smoking cigarettes.

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: coopypants]
    #7579317 - 10/31/07 02:53 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

coopypants said:
elephents get drunk off fermented fruit as well, monkey's like smoking cigarettes.




:mattz: monkeys also love jacking off


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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: AKSE]
    #7579341 - 10/31/07 03:21 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

AKSE said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I agree. Cocaine is natural too.

But it can't be denied that there's a veritable avalanche of new research showing almost outrageous beneficial effects of cannabinoids from pot. It's neuroprotective and it has potential to stave off Alzheimer's and slow the spread of cancer. Not mention adding to the quality of life of seriously ill people.

Granted there are a lot of downsides to smoking pot every day, but the propaganda and misperceptions created by the reefer madness movements outweighs the pro-pot propaganda by orders of magnitude.




I wouldn't go that far to say cocaine is natural.  It's extracted from coca leaves with chemicals, not merely grown from the dirt and picked. :ohwell:




okay then, how about screw cocaine. but tobacco is natural, and that shit is not good for you one bit.



-edit-
its been posted already, but ill leave it anyways.. just acknowledging it was already posted.

Edited by LordSenate (10/31/07 03:32 AM)

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: aDoS]
    #7579610 - 10/31/07 07:14 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

aDoS said:
...it is very habit forming. Thats why half the people I know who do it are stoned all day everyday.





That's not always the case though with everybody else. I used to smoke a shit-ton and it was fairly easy for me to quit whenever I felt like it.

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: Boots]
    #7579626 - 10/31/07 07:25 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Well to answer this question I need to define what naturality is.

For me, Naturality is anything in reality. Reality is natural, so anything real is also, no matter the path you took to get there.

So smoking weed to me is natural, as is making LSD, kicking cats, licking frogs, and feeling up Milla Jovovich Blowdolls. It is ALL natural to me. Merely, because it is real, and reality is natural, naturally so is Reality.:-)


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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7579631 - 10/31/07 07:30 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i say if it can be done on our world its natural

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: milkman]
    #7579800 - 10/31/07 08:39 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Actually, I don't think tobacco is all that bad by itself... I've heard that it's mainly the synthetic additives and raidoactive pesticides that they put on the plants. At least that's what I think... I could be wrong.


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Edited by Siekoaktiv (10/31/07 08:44 AM)

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: aDoS]
    #7580123 - 10/31/07 10:37 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Natural doesn't mean safer. Datura is natural, alcohol is natural, LSD and DMT are not natural. "Legalize it, it's natural" or "Legalize it, it's a plant" are not valid arguments for its legalization.

Cannabis is a plant, and considered a drug. This depends on your definition of drugs. Some people, for some reason, believe that "drugs" are pills or powder. You can consider anything that alters your mood/consciousness a drug.. but the meaning is even more broad. Sugar, coffee, alcohol, tobacco, cannabis, crack, meth, St. John's Wort, chocolate, are ALL 'drugs.' It doesn't matter if they are smokable, edible, come from plants or fungi, etc.

You could say "God created this and we should be allowed to use it in its natural form, as God created it" about coca plants and Cannabis and other "natural" drugs, but this argument doesn't mean anything.. how much is natural? can we stuff 1000 coca leaves in our mouth? Can I collect all the trichomes that fall off the plant and smoke hash? Can we grow the plants using "natural" hormones and additives that God also created? Can we mix "natural God made things" together like using alcohol for extractions?

Now on getting high being natural.. The earliest documented proof of Cannabis use is in the Neolithic age.. does that mean it's "natural" for us to get high, because humans and their predecessor have been doing it? Is it natural to get high because we have cannabinoid receptors? Does this mean opiates are natural?

I think drugs have been a part of mankind for thousands of years, but I don't consider it 'natural' - I don't consider it damaging or wrong or unethical really. I just don't like the term 'natural' because it sounds like it's something we have to do, like eat food or have sex. This is more of a philosophical/ethical issue. Is marriage natural? According to our instincts and brain chemistry, it's not natural.. but our consciousness and reasoning can override instincts.

The term 'natural' has become ambiguous now, like the word 'zen' or the word 'drug' -- People using these terms in their arguments must specify exactly what they mean, otherwise they are using a faulty argument.

Cheers.

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: Siekoaktiv]
    #7580170 - 10/31/07 10:48 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Siekoaktiv said:
Actually, I don't think tobacco is all that bad by itself... I've heard that it's mainly the synthetic additives and raidoactive pesticides that they put on the plants. At least that's what I think... I could be wrong.




I think the main reason tobacco is so damaging is because, due to its addictive potential and short duration, it tends to be overused (2+ pack a day?) and smoking something at this frequency causes at least SOME damage to the lungs/body. Nicotine itself has not been shown to cause cancer, and it is found in tiny amounts in tomatoes and many plants.

Quote:

There are over 19 known carcinogens in cigarettes.[26] The following are some of the most potent carcinogens:

* Benzopyrene is a highly carcinogenic and mutagenic compound which is formed during the incomplete combustion of organic matter. Tobacco manufacturers have experimented with combustionless vaporizer technology to allow cigarettes to be consumed without the formation of carcinogenic benzopyrenes.[27]

* Nitrosamine is a "deadly cancer-causing" compound found in cigarette smoke but not in uncured tobacco leaves. Nitrosamine forms on flue-cured tobacco leaves during the curing process through a chemical reaction between nicotine and other compounds contained in the uncured leaf and various oxides of nitrogen found in all combustion gases. Switching to indirect-fire curing has been shown to reduce nitrosamine levels to less than 0.1 parts per million.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_effects_of_tobacco_smoking

Tobacco is my favorite drug, but I don't use it. It's unfortunate that it's so damaging, and my idea of a Utopian world is one in which cigarettes are benign.

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: Quake3]
    #7580326 - 10/31/07 11:33 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

the thing with all of this shit is that everything we make, comes from a natural source.
We just use a multitude of natural plants and so forth to make "chemicals", when actually its just a fucking transformation.

The argument of "its not natural", say for example, smoking.
Its not natural because we dont "inherently" smoke to survive, its something we have created, so its not natural.

Have a good look around you right now.
Everything has come from a natural source somewhere on this planet, and you use it, so the greatest battle is getting over how unnatural humans are.

all these fucks need to get over themselves, then we might just get somewhere.


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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: aDoS]
    #7581059 - 10/31/07 02:34 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

There are varying degrees to everything.
But ultimately I think everything is quintessentially "natural".


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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: AgingHippy]
    #7581278 - 10/31/07 03:25 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

you make good points, but does it really matter what it is?

:stoned:

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #7581290 - 10/31/07 03:26 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Basically you are trying to debate the signification of a certain word of a language. You can debate the assigned meaning of words all day, but this would be meaningless. Humans are a part of nature, despite what a lot of people may tell you. We are animals, mammals, vertebrates, with the same complexity as an armadillo. We may be slightly more intelligent, but this should not change our place as a part of nature in this biosphere.


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Edited by impeachme2 (10/31/07 03:27 PM)

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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: eyehavenoi]
    #7581432 - 10/31/07 04:01 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Its natural because you don't have to add baking soda or stir, shit like that.

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Invisiblepong
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: MindGorilla]
    #7581440 - 10/31/07 04:06 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

pick it dry it smoke it. weed
pick it extract it snort it. coke/H
pick it dry it eat it. shroomz

not that far from kill it drain it cook it. meat.

my definition of a natural drug is one that occurs in nature naturally regardless of the concentration in the medium. 

only those drugs that do not occur naturally are un natural drugs.  but that doesnt mean its not natural to use them :toomuchacid:


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OfflineAnotherDimension
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: impeachme2]
    #7581514 - 10/31/07 04:28 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Why are people so confused by this word? Natural. Well, I did find many definitions for it in only one dictionary source. Are people arguing using different meanings?

Weed is natural if by natural you mean, "made by nature". Weed would continue to grow and exist if man disappeared from the earth tomorrow. Weed exists in nature without the intervention of mankind. This makes it natural. The Golden Gate Bridge is not natural. It is artificial, i.e. man-made.

In a food sense it is natural if it has"undergone little or no processing and containing no chemical additives: natural food; natural ingredients. Compare organic (def. 11)."

Once again, weed meets this definition as well.

If you mean 'natural' in the sense of "Expected and accepted" then this is a purely debatable subject. While expected behavior, smoking weed is accepted by some groups, but not others. Given that in history it was only recently unacceptable to do, I'd assert that it is still natural to do.

So, how is smoking weed not natural exactly?


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Another Dimension
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"Come, and trip it as ye go,
On the light fantastick toe."

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OfflineStizzle
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: AnotherDimension]
    #7581551 - 10/31/07 04:38 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

IMO everything on this earth is natural. We evolved, we got smarter, we learned to manipulate our environment. If human intervention is unnatural... than did nature screw up and make us too smart?

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Offlineezkiel
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: Stizzle]
    #7581688 - 10/31/07 05:25 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

drug is just a word that is open to a wide variety of interpretation. narcotic refers to a substance that is sleep inducing (hence narcolepsy).

Why get worked up over what other people think?

Do or do not. That isn't a question those are your options.


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I've made  few spore choices in my life. :mushroom2:
Chop... Drop... and Roll

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OfflineDr_Weird
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: ezkiel]
    #7582770 - 11/01/07 01:00 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Marijuana can be good or bad. Sure its better than some other drugs. It can be good with leveling out certain people. I could probably use some to level out my mood sometimes. However I believe it can hold back the growth of your personality if used in excess. I quit weed about 7 months ago because I want to 'supercharge' my personality since I am very shy sometimes and weed doesn't help me with this. Not every person has the same reaction though.

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Offlinephoenixsage911
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: mskip23]
    #7584033 - 11/01/07 01:06 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Imagine wildfires occuring centuries ago.. People started with inscents, realized it gave them some sort of spiritual or self uprising... They put all types of plants into leaf-rolls.. It is natural, and GOD did make it.. Who cares if people want to call it natural? Or say its "better than manmade shit". Who the fuck has the problem, them, or you Crying in a post?

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OfflineAnotherDimension
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: Stizzle]
    #7584233 - 11/01/07 02:18 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

IMO everything on this earth is natural. We evolved, we got smarter, we learned to manipulate our environment. If human intervention is unnatural... than did nature screw up and make us too smart?




This doesn't make any sense. If you disagree with the word 'natural' then you need to find a new word to use. What is wrong with its definition? Just because you don't feel there is anything wrong with human activity, doesn't mean a word is defined wrong. Plus the word 'natural' takes on entirely different meaning when applied to human activity. Just read the dictionary, and you will understand how silly this argument is.

The word 'natural' in one of its definitions exists purely to point out the fact that mankind is unique in its activity from the rest of nature. It does not imply anything wrong or bad with this. You could claim it shows the arrogance of mankind, but dolphins probably view themselves specially in their dolphin language, so whatever.


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Another Dimension
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"Come, and trip it as ye go,
On the light fantastick toe."

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OfflineFraggin
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Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: AnotherDimension]
    #7584258 - 11/01/07 02:27 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Another spin on this idea.....

Is Hydro, Engineered Bud, KB, etc Natrual?
Or is Wild Propagated Marijuana the only natural source?

There is a myth afloat that the potencey of mj today is several fold more potent than that smoked by previous generations....
Here's some interesting studies....

The story of the new allegedly stronger and more dangerous marijuana was rebirthed in January 1986 by the late Sidney Cohen, M.D., Professor of Psychiatry at UCLA. ". . .material ten or more times more potent than the product smoked ten years ago is being used, and the intoxicated state is more intense and lasts longer." In addition, Cohen asserted that "the amount of THC in confiscated samples averaged 4.1 percent THC during 1984. The sinsemilla [seedless] varieties were about 7% with some samples reaching 14 percent . . . all marijuana research to date has been done on 1 or 2 percent THC material and we may be underestimating present day smoking practices."(30)

After a careful consideration of historical records, reports of recent potency estimates, and the practice of marijuana smokers to self-adjust their dose, the authors reached the following conclusion.

"While it may be true that sinsemilla is more widely available than 10 or 15 years ago, its potency has not changed significantly from the 2.4 to 9.5 percent THC materials available in 1873-1974, or the five to 14 percent sinsemilla of 1975. The range of potencies available then (marijuana at 0.1% to 7.8% THC, averaging 2.0% to 5.0% THC by 19750 was approximately the same as reported now. With such a range, the evidence simply cannot support the argument by Cohen that marijuana is "ten or more times more potent than the product smoked ten years ago." And to say that marijuana potency has increased 1,400 percent since any date in history is patent nonsense."

"It is not legitimate to imply that average low potencies represent the full range of potencies available in reality. Neither is it valid to cite the low end of the range then as a baseline to compare the high end of the range now. The claimed baseline for THC content in the early 1970's would appear to be too low, probably because confiscated stored police samples were utilized; and this low baseline makes the claimed difference in potency appear to be greater than it has been in reality."(31) (emphasis in original)

An examination of the government's actual potency data (rather than what they have reported in press releases) was conducted by Dr. John Morgan of the City University of New York Medical School, and indicated that the finding was based on a comparison of the highest THC percentage in the 1980's with the lowest percentage of the 1970's. Also, the data from the 1970's was derived from a sample of decaying, imported Mexican marijuana composed of leaf and flower; it was compared to recently harvested, domestically grown marijuana flowers. Finally, marijuana of similar potency to 1980's standards was available during the 1970's. (32)

Morgan's debunking of marijuana potency findings relies on data presented by the NIDA potency project at the University of Mississippi. This data shows that the arithmetic average potency of domestic cannabis tested by the project has ranged from 1.5% to 4.75% THC. (33) In 1973 Gabriel Nahas reports that the THC content of drug-type cannabis ranges from 3.4 to 4.8%. (34) In 1975, before the emergence of high quality domestic marijuana cultivation in the U.S., John Langer of the DEA reports that:

"Marihuana produced in the United States is considered inferior because of the low concentration of psychoactive ingredients, which varies between 0.2 and 2.0 percent. Marihuana of Mexican origin is known to be slightly stronger. The variety known as Jamaican ganja, which consists primarily of the flowers and breacts, has a THC content of 4 to 8 percent."(35)

These citations from Nahas and the DEA independently demonstrate that a broad range of marijuana potencies was available in the 1970's, and provide additional evidence that assertions otherwise are without factual or scientific foundation.

It is important to understand the fallacy of the increased potency argument for several reasons.

1) It is just wrong. It is factually incorrect.

2) It is ironic that advocates of marijuana prohibition claim prior research is inadequate to explain the effects of this new, high potent marijuana when as explained in section 3, most of the contemporaneous research was later criticized for using extremely unrealistic potencies.

3) It is convenient. The hypothesis that marijuana is now much more potent than in the past provides convincing support for the assertion that any use of the drug is drug abuse. Rhetoric about marijuana potency substitutes for scientific findings in efforts to legitimize existing policy.

4) Most importantly, the scientific research reported in section 3 renders the potency question irrelevant to an assessment of the acute and chronic effects of marijuana use. Remember, in the mid 1980's when this hypothesis gained popularity, the dominant research paradigm was (incorrectly) based on cell membrane perturbation. Certainly, if marijuana produced dangerous effects by toxic seepage into cell membranes, than increases in potency represent increases in danger. Certainly if marijuana produced tolerance by desensitizing brain cells, a result of this toxic seepage, then increases in potency would increase the danger of adverse effects. However marijuana produces its results by way of a neural receptor system, not membrane perturbation, and the brain can tolerate extremely high potent doses of cannabinoids. Tolerance to marijuana develops through receptor down-regulation; the body's response to high potency marijuana is seek a manageable equilibrium through receptor down-regulation. The potency hypothesis may have had some relevance in the 1980's, regardless of its foundation. However in the 1990's, the potency hypothesis has neither foundation nor relevance.

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InvisibleChiefGreenLeaf

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 1,596
Re: stop saying its natrual to do it - cannabis [Re: eyehavenoi]
    #7584444 - 11/01/07 03:22 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

We are part of nature, true? Then everything we make must be natural. Just another perspective.

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