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 bareassetts
building amystery
 
Registered: 10/07/06
Posts: 31
Loc: fla
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
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 overlay? *DELETED* 
#6948335 - 05/21/07 08:06 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Post deleted by bareassettsReason for deletion: old
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shagg
nottanub
Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 448
Loc: South
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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believe so..
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atomic1
enthusiast
Registered: 09/18/03
Posts: 1,123
Loc: Appalachia
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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NO, its just some aggressive rhizomorphic mycelium. Has that been cased already or is it still colonizing the sub?
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 jeetered
Stranger
Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 3,055
Loc: no clue
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Re: overlay? [Re: atomic1]
#6948451 - 05/21/07 08:30 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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I would initiate pinning as soon as u can, i've had some great pinsets from casing layers that looked like that. I see a side that's not equally colonized, i really wouldn't worry about that. So long as it's just the casing layer that isn't colonized. I'm assuming you're using coir in your casing layer, it looks like it, myc rips through it because it's nutritious. A casing layer ideally provides no nutrition, and acts as a barrier.
Edited by jeetered (05/21/07 08:32 PM)
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shagg
nottanub
Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 448
Loc: South
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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Re: overlay? [Re: jeetered]
#6948491 - 05/21/07 08:38 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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uh yea yea thats what i meant..
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figgusfiddus
Arrogant Worm
Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 2,126
Loc: Figgus, Fiddia
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: overlay? [Re: jeetered]
#6948493 - 05/21/07 08:38 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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That is amazingly rhizo. Beautiful. Wish mine always looked that way.
Anyway, jeetered, is that so? I mean, it seems that every casing material the pros (and our board equivalent) use is somewhat nutrious, just not AS nutrious as the substrate. I've cased with pure mid- or finer-grade verm before, and that seems to work really well, I've always wondered why more people don't do it. Huge flushes, good pinsets, and resistant to contams even in really high-humidity FCs (I was growing cakes at the same time, and was keeping it 95% or so). I think I might keep it up with pure verm in the future, after my recent bad luck with my first few 50/50 casings.
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Edited by figgusfiddus (05/21/07 08:40 PM)
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jeetered
Stranger
Registered: 07/07/06
Posts: 3,055
Loc: no clue
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figgus i totally agree, straight vermiculite casings seem to work the best for me also, i believe some people here would classify coir as a bulk substrate (i cringe at that) and holds no place as a casing layer. I don't think it has any use in mycology personally, but, I CAN see how mixing it with poo/straw/verm/etc would be a great idea, as mycelia reallllly likes to grow in it.
peat provides no nutrition, no where near the amount coir does, and as far as i know peat provides none, and coir can be used as a bulk substrate, so which sounds better?
Edited by jeetered (05/21/07 08:54 PM)
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,189
Loc: upstate NY, USA
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
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Re: overlay? [Re: jeetered]
#6948612 - 05/21/07 09:04 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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A casing layer should be non-nutritious. Peat fits the bill perfectly. Verm helps to hold water, but has poor texture. That's why a combination of peat and vermiculite makes an excellent casing recipe. Coir is very nutritious for fungi, providing nearly as much food as horse manure, and more than many other bulk substrate materials such as straw.
Some growers use a small amount of coir in casing recipes, but I choose not to. Other growers use as much as 40% coir to 60% vermiculite and still have good results, but initiation timing becomes critical.
Vermiculite by itself is probably the worst choice for a casing layer, due to the poor texture.
The above casing layer is not overlayed. Overlay is matted mycelium that is impervious to moisture. Initiate fruiting, if you haven't done so already.
RR
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Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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figgusfiddus
Arrogant Worm
Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 2,126
Loc: Figgus, Fiddia
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Did you see the upper right corner of his pic, RR? I think he has some patching to do or something. It's not colonized over there.
I hate to ask a stupid question, but I haven't really heard a good discussion of this yet--why is texture such a large concern for casings? I mean, I do get fruits from my verm casings, rather large ones even.
My last grow, I actually mixed verm 50/50 with potting mix... which is as best I can tell, already about 30% (less?) verm. No antifungals, no bad stuff for the shrooms on the label--just verm, peat, and lime in that stuff. Anyway, I simply couldn't get colonization like I see above. I saw little strands running through it, but none of that pure white beauty. Is this because I had too much verm? When I finally tore the casings up (trich attack from other thread), I found that the casing was definitely colonized, as all the non-trich parts were rubberish and clung very well to the substrate, but it simply never LOOKED colonized. The total confusion that came from that has really set me off to casing, at least for the time being. Until I have more trays to fall back on so that I can experiment and take pics, I am probably going to stick with pure verm for now, even though I trust you that it is not a good choice for casing.
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Edited by figgusfiddus (05/21/07 09:14 PM)
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure
Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,189
Loc: upstate NY, USA
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
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Potting soil often has lots of wood in it. Wood is the favorite food of trichoderma.
An uncased substrate can give very large dense fruits too. Cubensis certainly doesn't require a casing layer, as pf cakes prove well. Texture is important in a casing layer because you want lots of little air pockets between the casing layer and the substrate. These air pockets create little areas with 100% humidity, which stimulates primordia formation, and a good, loose texture also keeps air circulating around and within the casing, getting rid of the gasses, and replacing them with fresh air, which is another pinning trigger. A loose casing layer also allows light to penetrate, which is a third pinning trigger. A dense, or packed casing not only will not colonize well, but has none of these little air pockets that are so important, nor will it allow light to penetrate. That's why you want a course, loose, fluffy casing.
RR
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Download Let's Grow Mushrooms
semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat
"I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison
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figgusfiddus
Arrogant Worm
Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 2,126
Loc: Figgus, Fiddia
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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That's great info. Really, some of the best I've seen. Thanks as always!
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shagg
nottanub
Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 448
Loc: South
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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RR will .. IS .. it.
... "write that down"
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hyphae
born to grow
Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 9 years, 9 months
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BTW coir is not that nutritious it is simply the fibrous outer coating of a coconut, it does have some nutrient value but it is more importantly used for it's texture and water holding capabilities.
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Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal 
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE
"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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figgusfiddus
Arrogant Worm
Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 2,126
Loc: Figgus, Fiddia
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: overlay? [Re: hyphae]
#6957761 - 05/23/07 07:36 PM (13 years, 9 months ago) |
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Coir is actually the partially-decomposed fibrous outer layer of a coconut. It's not nutritious by human standards, but then neither is horse poo, cow poo, straw. Coir is easily-accessible shroom nutrition in a really dense form, just like all those other substrates. I understand people have had different experiences each way with it--there are raves pro and con--but from a purely logical standpoint it makes as much sense as a large number of other substrates, and while I've never grown on it and don't have your expertise, the pictures don't lie. Plus, it overlays like crazy from what I've seen--that should be some indication of its nutrition.
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figgusfiddus
Arrogant Worm
Registered: 02/02/07
Posts: 2,126
Loc: Figgus, Fiddia
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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By the way, RR--I did say potting mix, not potting soil... is there a difference? This one said peat, verm, and pH stabilizers were the only ingredients. Do you mean that potting mixes tend to use mulchy peat or something? In theory, all peat contains wood, as I understand it, though in various stages of decomposition.
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