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Offlineboneynerd
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Peroxide is Bullcrap.
    #6947061 - 05/21/07 12:30 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I know allot of people have been duped into peroxide being this cure-all type method for growing mushrooms without a pressure cooker of proper sterilization...

I for one was once duped as well, I had read the  :poop:'Peroxide Method I & II PDF' :poop: files online, and read countless other stuff about it when I did not own a pressure cooker.
"
Allot of people seem obsessed with sterilization (which is a good thing) even in the fruiting stage.  Although being clean (not wiping your hand with your own poop) will help you allot, peroxide simply wont improve anything. It breaks down too quickly into water and oxygen and manages only to cause mycelium to stall (kinda like getting ur mushrooms stoned :rastamon:, they just sit :bouncysmoke: there lol).


Hydrogen peroxide always decomposes (disproportionates) exothermically into water and oxygen gas spontaneously

The common name for hydrogen peroxide is "20 volume", which means that when 1 volume of hydrogen peroxide is decomposed, it produces 20 volumes of oxygen.

Its just too weak, and does not holdup long enough to be beneficial to a grow.

Furthermore, I once did an experiment by cloning a wild mushroom on peroxide soaked cardboard. it took 30days for any sign of growth.. then started to puff and fruit.. but then they ended up :piss:contaminated, because the peroxide had no way of fending off the contams from the mycelium.

not that its an end-all-be-all or that you cant ever use the stuff, its just highly over-rated and not very effective - i see allot of newcomers here at shroomery trying to use it all the time.

Except:
"peroxide is used for two things small amount in a spray bottle and a larger amount in a spray bottle to fight cobweb" -xaxphaanes

-bdiz :rastamon:


--------------------
"Your mama's grow was so contaminated, the shroomery got trich." :headbanger:
-SpitballJediS

"your a female, no one woulda cared you were naked,hell probably made someone's day, but I pull my balls out on a bus and im the bad guy.."
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Edited by boneynerd (05/21/07 12:35 PM)

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Offlinexaxphaanes
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Re: Peroxide is Bullcrap. [Re: boneynerd]
    #6947078 - 05/21/07 12:33 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

peroxide is used for two things small amount in a spray bottle and a larger amount in a spray bottle to fight cobweb thats it dont know what these so called teks are but they seem like bs if you dont have a pc pf tek is your only option


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"Anything i say is fictional"
  what you should look for in manure

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Peroxide is Bullcrap. [Re: xaxphaanes]
    #6947197 - 05/21/07 01:11 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Rush Wayne's peroxide tek is crap. There's no other words for it, and I've been saying it for years. It's right up there with 'fractional sterilization' and the 'oven tek'.

Peroxide has a good use to fight cobweb. There is little other use for it in mycology, and it should never be used when cloning because it damages the mushroom mycelium as much as molds, so it hurts your culture that you're trying to clone, right at the time you're trying to encourage it to grow.

Save it for cobweb attacks. I don't even use it in the humidifiers anymore.
RR


--------------------
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"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Peroxide is Bullcrap. [Re: boneynerd]
    #6948226 - 05/21/07 05:30 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Read up on peroxided agars and grains it's got a lot of research to back it up.


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Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Peroxide is Bullcrap. [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #6948266 - 05/21/07 05:42 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

>Rush Wayne's peroxide tek is crap. There's no other words for it, and I've been
>saying it for years. It's right up there with 'fractional sterilization'

Hmm...I have been using peroxide in agar for several years with great success, before I had a flow hood. Also I added peroxide to grain spawn with very good results.

And fractional sterilization is a time proven(first "invented" more than 100 years ago) method that works, when followed properly.
A pressure cooker of course is preferable, providing one has it.

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Offlineboneynerd
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Re: Peroxide is Bullcrap. [Re: Anno]
    #6948286 - 05/21/07 05:49 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

ive made like 6 LC jars with fractionalization. although i only cooked twice, not 3 times. and they have all turned out well.

but still, its not nearly as effective as more modern methods available, which even the more modern methods are not all that expensive and time consuming as the old..


--------------------
"Your mama's grow was so contaminated, the shroomery got trich." :headbanger:
-SpitballJediS

"your a female, no one woulda cared you were naked,hell probably made someone's day, but I pull my balls out on a bus and im the bad guy.."
-Bishlap

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Invisiblejeetered
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Re: Peroxide is Bullcrap. [Re: boneynerd]
    #6948507 - 05/21/07 06:42 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I mist my tubs with it after harvesting, seems to keep it clean.
Also great with agar since i don't have a flowhood.
i also use it to flush out my syringes.
dunno, it's pretty low on the arsenal of fungi list. But i like having it around.

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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: Peroxide is Bullcrap. [Re: jeetered]
    #6948587 - 05/21/07 06:59 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I know this is exactly oppositional to the sentiment of the thread, but has anyone ever tested it against grain endospores? I came across a lot of cheap h2o2 in my hunt for cheap isopropyl the other day, and I'm considering a harebrained attempt at inoculating a vial (not a full jar) of grain after a peroxide soak and 212F sterilization (can't pick up my PC until later this week!).

I mean, I don't expect anyone here to say this is likely to work, but it sure seems interesting to me. Chemical sterilization of substrate... the heat would break it down after it did its work, and then the inoculant could take advantage of a totally clean playing field.


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FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Peroxide is Bullcrap. [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #6948992 - 05/21/07 08:17 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

The problem with peroxide on agar is it stunts the mycelium, and then oxidizes away to nothing, leaving the mycelium weak, but having no further effect on bacteria. For cloning, you can have far better results by dipping tissue into iodine before placing on agar. Gentmycin sulphate added to the agar will help prevent bacteria from growing, while not slowing down the mushroom mycelium at all. In all cases, strict attention to sterile procedure will outperform peroxide. I suppose that's what I meant to say, even if I was a bit harsh on ol' Rush.
RR


--------------------
Download Let's Grow Mushrooms



semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
Thomas Edison

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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Peroxide is Bullcrap. [Re: boneynerd]
    #6949204 - 05/21/07 08:55 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I have had 100% success taking tissue samples under peroxide then transferring to agar plates BTW. Peroxided agars as well as grains need no heat sterilization also and it does work pretty consistently but is not a 100% and as RR said a perfected sterile culture technique will provide you with higher success rates far more often. Peroxided agars do allow protection as the peroxide IN the agar is not exposed to air and it also aids in the prevention of anaerobic bacteria through the continued release of oxygen. Peroxide has aided me many times so I personally would never right it off as bullcrap.


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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Invisiblejeetered
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Re: Peroxide is Bullcrap. [Re: hyphae]
    #6950861 - 05/22/07 07:34 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

well well, i would have never thought of iodine, im going to try that over a dip in h2o2 next clone slant i make.

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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: Peroxide is Bullcrap. [Re: jeetered]
    #6957664 - 05/23/07 05:08 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Iodine is an interesting choice, I can't say I'd ever thought it over. Somehow I always imagined it would harm the mycelium, since I'd never heard much about it being used.

Does iodine harm spores (both mold and perfecti) as much as bacteria?


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FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS

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Offlinefiggusfiddus
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Re: Peroxide is Bullcrap. [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #6957678 - 05/23/07 05:11 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Wait, did I hear you say peroxidating grains is effective, hyphae? Maybe I'll do my test batch on a full jar, then.

Not to contradict RR, but it makes sense in my mind that while sterile procedure outperforms simple peroxide, selective use of peroxide under sterile procedure would trump either alone. If I can kill off contams while doing nothing but stall my mycelium for a few days, I will take that trade any day.


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FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS
FGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDSFGSFDS

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Offlinecbiegel
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Re: Peroxide is Bullcrap. [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #6957713 - 05/23/07 05:21 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Iodine is definitely effective against mold. In the right concentration it only take a 30 second soak to sanitize almost any piece of equipment.


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Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew.

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Offlinehyphae
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Re: Peroxide is Bullcrap. [Re: figgusfiddus]
    #6957796 - 05/23/07 05:43 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Iodine is often used on caps to wipe down before peeling back the epidermal layer which underneath is sterile by nature anyway so tissue samples will be clean as clean can be. Peroxide has worked flawlessly for me as well as many friends of mine when cleaning up tissue samples it retards very little and only on the surface it is a very viable alternative (FACT!) and it's been proven many many times over IME. GL bro


--------------------
Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy.
Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal :wink:
Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is
Gas Exchange vs. FAE

"We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"

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Offlinedjremix
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Re: Peroxide is Bullcrap. [Re: hyphae]
    #7718846 - 12/05/07 08:57 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Old thread and im no expert, but ive had a lot of success with H202
from beating a sore throat to cobwebs to making 1% misting solution for the fruiting chamber.

ive also tried the honeytek+peroxide and that worked great even though i didnt use the glove box and the honey jar was used ;-)

anyways, one thought come to mind is type of h202 used?
im getting the food grade 35% with no additives and add in distilled water as needed. never used the one straight from a pharmacy. maybe that affects the results somehow?

also i would imagine soaking the perlite with h202 when first used is beneficial for pinning as it will increase the oxygen ratio in the chambe. especially usefull if you cant fan as much as you like..

just a few thoughts...

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Re: Peroxide is Bullcrap. [Re: boneynerd]
    #7719327 - 12/05/07 11:43 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Are you guys rinsing the substrate with clean water after soaking it in the peroxide bath. Just so you know. I do this with straw and I rinse it afterwards with clean filtered water from the tap. I never have any problems. Peroxidated agar has it's uses as well. Just It should not be used exclusively. Also you should be using hot water with it at the time of applying it. RINSE your bulk substrates. Same applies to bleach bathing. I have on many occasions used peroxide or bleach with boiling water, rinsed, added spawn and mixed by hand, Then rinse again with the spawn included squeeze, and then apply. Works every time.

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OfflinePandeist
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Re: Peroxide is Bullcrap. [Re: lipa]
    #9623166 - 01/16/09 08:07 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Sooo...I guess peroxide *does* have it's uses...
just don't expect it to be the only tool in yr sanitation toolbelt, eh?

That's what I'm getting out of this thread anyways.

That and the fact that there's a million different ways to reach the same ends in this hobby.

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InvisibleJustJane
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Re: Peroxide is Bullcrap. [Re: Pandeist]
    #9623205 - 01/16/09 08:16 PM (15 years, 2 months ago)

You know this thread is a year old right? :rofl2:

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OfflinePandeist
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Re: Peroxide is Bullcrap. [Re: JustJane]
    #9624217 - 01/17/09 12:13 AM (15 years, 2 months ago)

Sorry for that, has a consensus been reached?
Please clue me in...

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