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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Age breeding disinterest in drugs
    #6938575 - 05/19/07 12:18 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

We've all heard plenty of people who have said that as they grow older they no longer find interest in doing psychedelic drugs.

We have those who feel this way because they feel as though they've gone as far as they can with them and no longer need them. This is not what I'm interested in here but feel free to discuss opinions surrounding this idea.

Then we have those who just..lose interest. They didn't find their place, they just lost interest. This could be for one of two reasons (for beginners):
1) Psychedelic drugs have never offered them anything beyond a fun time, or
2) All of the hopes, dreams, realities and possibilities they've gained or observed through the use of psychedelics no longer hold any water in a world where they have failed to follow the path that was laid before them, a world in which they have become too committed and confined to the laws of society. They feel trapped and helpless and accept reality as how the miserable people surrounding them define it.


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Posts: 38,066
Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs - not a chance [Re: elbisivni]
    #6938889 - 05/19/07 02:01 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

17-24 lsd, weed, speed (all good)
24-30 weed shroom coke (first marriage)
30-34 rediscover lsd!!!
34-37 nothing (first marriage on rocks - goes completely straight as custodial parent)
37-39 lsd coke weed (first marriage ended/ single custodial established)
39-48 lsd red-wine (coke sucks life lsd gives life - new marriage still custodial parent)
48-51 nothing red-wine (could not get any lsd - did not want weed or coke)
51-52 shroom red-wine (business trip to amsterdam)
52-54 salvia red-wine(internet discovery)
54-55 salvia lsd red-wine (luckily some lsd re-emerged from the woodwork)

one hopes the mouldings remain well carved for the future, both lsd and salvia seem suitable for the next 30-50 years if accessible, -they encourage vigor and interest in life IMO.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

Edited by redgreenvines (05/19/07 04:20 PM)

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs [Re: elbisivni]
    #6938958 - 05/19/07 02:29 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

People lose interest in psychedelics because of many reasons. One could start with a very noticeable shift in spirituality and awareness and then just get lost. :shrug:
Some experiences might be so deep that one doesn't know how to react anymore and just doesn't do psychedelics anymore. It doesn't even have to be a conscious decision. Instead of adapting him/herself to the new situation and assimilate the new "reality", chooses to stop using them.
In some cases the shock can be so big that one could totally change his life style and live a "safe" life. And what they once considered as being a "trap" becomes their shelter.
In my opinion the usage of psychedelics works better if it's mixed with other mind expansion practices. I think it's a good way to "preserve" that interest and always have something to learn.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6939271 - 05/19/07 04:24 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

very much like that I think
I might add that when I was 24
I kind of cut off my lsd interest because I felt uncertain of it's healthfulness, but in 1980 (before my first child was born), I got reaquainted with it at a rock concert, and found no detrimental effects.
when I quit it again it was just to have no material evidence of anything that might prevent me being considered a fit father and custodial parent after separation.
throughout the whole history there has been strong interest in mind, meditation and abhidhamma.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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OfflineLion
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Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6939297 - 05/19/07 04:38 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

In some cases the shock can be so big that one could totally change his life style and live a "safe" life. And what they once considered as being a "trap" becomes their shelter.


This is a big temptation. But the shelter is hollow and I don't think it ever really works. The desire for something conclusive becomes overpowering- though this could be a trap in itself. I know where I will step out the door next but that doesn't say much.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6939299 - 05/19/07 04:38 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

throughout the whole history there has been strong interest in mind, meditation and abhidhamma.




:yesnod:  :mushroom2:  :yinyang:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs [Re: Lion]
    #6939332 - 05/19/07 04:51 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

bug said:
Quote:

In some cases the shock can be so big that one could totally change his life style and live a "safe" life. And what they once considered as being a "trap" becomes their shelter.


This is a big temptation.  But the shelter is hollow and I don't think it ever really works.  The desire for something conclusive becomes overpowering- though this could be a trap in itself.  I know where I will step out the door next but that doesn't say much.




It is a temptation. Based on our weak moments. Theoretically each of us can fall into trap because each of us have moments when we feel really vulnerable. I guess that besides our awareness growing bigger there are other factors too which determine if we fall into that or not. Maybe the friends we have. Maybe the circumstance we're in, or maybe the unknown factors which we seem to generically call "luck".

I know I had these moments and I know what "saved" me. But my experience is limited to myself so I'm sure there are so many other things that influence our mind set. It only realty takes a second to find refuge in the more inappropriate things. :shrug:... of course one could always learn from that... but what I'm more interested in regarding this particular situation and what seems to save some is that undetermined factor and the nature of it... if that makes any sense :shrug:
:mushroom2:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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OfflineLion
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Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6939353 - 05/19/07 04:59 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

the nature of what? all of this?


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs - not a chance [Re: redgreenvines]
    #6939365 - 05/19/07 05:03 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

17 - 25 Found LSD
25 - 35 Decided to "grow up"...found alcohol...
35 - 36 rediscovered LSD
37 - Discovered Ayahuasca, but looking for some LSD...
37 - Discovered shrooms, and let the alcohol slide, but looking for LSD...
37 - Discover salvia, but still looking for LSD...
38 - 40 Discovered mescaline, but still looking for LSD...
40 - 41 Discovered ecstasy, but still looking for LSD...
41 -  Discover salvia 10X...oh my God!! I quit looking for LSD for about 15 minutes.
41 - 42 Shrooms and mescaline old friends, but still looking for LSD :smile:
43 and Beyond - Who knows, I may become so spiritually advanced that I try to "grow up" again, but I doubt it...of course self importance knows no bounds...


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs [Re: Lion]
    #6939387 - 05/19/07 05:11 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

No. That's futile to explain since it will only take forever to do that :blazed:
No, I was referring to what we call "luck" and what's behind it :sherlock:... which of course would take forever to get a glimpse of what it could be.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6939539 - 05/19/07 06:12 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I was referring to people that stay away from psychedelics because they are well aware of the world of shit that they are in, feel that there is no changing it - at least not through the use of psychedelics. Even though the drugs were once powerful and helpful, they become something viewed as providing false hope. I have one particular person in mind so I'm not saying this is a most common occurrence, just the one i was primarily interested in talking about.


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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OfflineLion
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Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs [Re: elbisivni]
    #6939543 - 05/19/07 06:14 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

they are well aware of the world of shit that they are in, feel that there is no changing it - at least not through the use of psychedelics.


I don't understand what you mean. Could you elaborate?


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs [Re: elbisivni]
    #6939580 - 05/19/07 06:24 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

There is only one thing in the world which you have the ability to change.

Mind altering substances do not inherently offer any magic power, the magic is within, they merely tear up the conditioned notions of the self and temporarily emerge an awakening. I want this permanently, and I'm willing to sacrifice anything for it, including blissful intoxicated states of mind.

Shrooms merely pointed to the way, they are not the way. I have seen, and now I must walk.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs [Re: elbisivni]
    #6939598 - 05/19/07 06:29 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Yeah I'm having some trouble understanding that too.
I mean... the world is constantly changing :shrug:
Whether you take psychedelics or not, whether you live or die. And I don't know if I ever took psychedelics because I wanter the world to change... I took/take them just to expand my mind and because I just love the feeling they give me.

Can you give more details exactly about the situation you're referring to? It might be an interesting point of view.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs [Re: Lion]
    #6939614 - 05/19/07 06:32 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

of course.

let's put together a little tale.

In his late teens and early-mid twenties "TK421" occasionally used psychedelic drugs. He found them exciting and interesting. Through his experimentation he gained a new and beautiful view on the world, and was excited about what the future might bring and where his life will lead. He had big, but modest, dreams and goals.

But when the future came he wasn't quite dealt the cards he was hoping and working for, really, his work had not paid off, he'd been screwed by the system more or less. Coming to terms with the reality of his situation, he accepts it and acknowledges that he must work to better his situation from this point. But now, his dreams have become much more modest - just to not be in this hole where he is overworked, under-payed and doesn't like the work that he's doing. He's trained and experienced for a field he would enjoy, but cannot find a way in.

He doesn't specifically disregard the idea of doing psychedelics, he just does not think of it at all. When asked why he doesn't pursue them, he says something along the lines of "I just don't have the desire to do them anymore."

"Now, why not?" I wonder, unable to gain further insight in the matter.

note: TK421 had a very large affinity for psychedelic drugs and used them as we do. he also has been in and remains in a state of consciousness that we here agree one should be in.


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

Edited by elbisivni (05/19/07 06:38 PM)

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs [Re: elbisivni]
    #6939748 - 05/19/07 07:00 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Yes but this is just a case losing exuberance.
In this case it happened to be losing interest for psychedelics because they were the ones that gave him that feeling. It might as well have been giving up any other passion.
Life can be depressing if we think it is so. I'm almost sure that this is that guy's case.
As a comparison I could come up with examples like old married couples which once seem to be human now they're just bitter. Or people who start to do something of of instinct and imagination and then they get absorbed by money.
It happens so when one forgets who he/she is.
Extremes can be easily confounded sometimes.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6939783 - 05/19/07 07:08 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

that's what I was thinking, but it seems more so that TK421 is avoiding psychedelics. I think that if he were to find ample success and comfort he would be just as into them as he was when he was younger. perhaps his current situation is just too depressing to go on a trip and when circumstances are better he will probably be interested in it again.


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs [Re: elbisivni]
    #6939807 - 05/19/07 07:13 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

he also has been in and remains in a state of consciousness that we here agree one should be in.




What state of mind is that? Should one seek to emulate the state of mind shared by the members of a social group? Is it not more practical to seek out states of consciousness based on individual needs and aesthetics? I never thought psychedelics were for maintaining the status quo, but for shattering it.

The individual you describe has sold out by abdicating their happiness to the whims of others. Seeking to maintain responsibility for the corner of the world that I create is the path I choose, and it is not based on sharing a social milieu with any group of people.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs [Re: elbisivni]
    #6939817 - 05/19/07 07:14 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

not always the right treatment for the problems that are biggest.
turning away from psychedelics can be good too- depending on how things are.

even a small dosage can be the wrong medicine for many situations in most peoples' lives.

I like having a system that benefits from salvia...


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #6939867 - 05/19/07 07:25 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
Quote:

he also has been in and remains in a state of consciousness that we here agree one should be in.




What state of mind is that? Should one seek to emulate the state of mind shared by the members of a social group? Is it not more practical to seek out states of consciousness based on individual needs and aesthetics? I never thought psychedelics were for maintaining the status quo, but for shattering it.



It was a pretty non-specific group containing only two points:
1) Hallucinogens aren't the only means of seeking spiritual enlightenment, and
2) Hallucinogens preferably aren't being used simply as a means to get fucked up.

I made that comment only to avoid any future arguments having anything to do with those 2 possibilities.

Quote:

The individual you describe has sold out by abdicating their happiness to the whims of others. Seeking to maintain responsibility for the corner of the world that I create is the path I choose, and it is not based on sharing a social milieu with any group of people.



A little assuming goes a long way. What you describe here is inapplicable.

And just in another attempt to avoid further deliberation, when I mentioned the possibilities of if he were to find "ample success and comfort" I was referring to his ability to pay his bills, buy proper food, enjoy his job - not some desire to be respected and accepted by others, have status, etc.


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

Edited by elbisivni (05/19/07 07:37 PM)

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs [Re: elbisivni]
    #6939956 - 05/19/07 07:44 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

elbisivni said:
that's what I was thinking, but it seems more so that TK421 is avoiding psychedelics. I think that if he were to find ample success and comfort he would be just as into them as he was when he was younger. perhaps his current situation is just too depressing to go on a trip and when circumstances are better he will probably be interested in it again.




Yeah... as RGW said, I don't think that it would be the best idea... not in all cases I mean. What once worked it might not the next time. He is definitely on way to a lesson because he's on a hard place. But maybe for that he needs a "sober" mind.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6939970 - 05/19/07 07:49 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Yeah... as RGW said, I don't think that it would be the best idea... not in all cases I mean. What once worked it might not the next time. He is definitely on way to a lesson because he's on a hard place. But maybe for that he needs a "sober" mind.




This seems very much like it is the case.

I was a little concerned I had lost a family member to everlasting sobriety :lol: yes, I should have known better, I just hope things start to look a little more up real soon.


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs [Re: elbisivni]
    #6944615 - 05/20/07 09:49 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Like Huehuecoyotl, I pursue a path that turns out to be about individuality and individuation (in the Jungian sense). I have a social need that has never been satisfied. I am in introvert and I prefer intimate encounters with individuals, not superficial contact with large numbers of people. Even in my psychedelic heyday as a college student, I discovered that nobody I met took this psychedelic lifestyle as seriously or as joyfully as I did. Nobody really delved into the philosophical, depth psychological or theological implications. My Lady tells me that several people she knew at Cornell, a much better school than my own undergraduate school, took psychedelics, but they went on to become fully enmeshed in The Matrix as physicians and lawyers and such, leaving all potentially transforming experiences behind.

I too had my own set-backs: a 'born-again' phase, marrying the wrong woman, trying to become established in a career, divorce/devastation/dating/disorientation. But, unlike a school psychologist in midlife who said "I don't read anymore," and who was only interested in his new house and the banal aspects of life in this world, I am still enthusiastic about the awakening of a state of consciousness which makes all worldly endeavors superfluous. Instead of the perfect partner, house, car, clothes, career, etc. by which people jump from temporary satisfaction to temporary satisfaction, I want to experience Monday mornings the same way as I experience Friday afternoons, and I want to feel the same way during the work week as I do when I'm on summer vacation. This is The Great Work of alchemy, and the state of being 'turned on,' full time, is The Philosophers' Stone.

So yes, psychedelics serve as occasional 'booster shots' to this end, and even though I could buy a Dodge Viper, which would attract many gold diggers and strippers in Miami, I will not devolve into some midlife crisis, lose my Lady and my soul in the process. And while the psychedelics hone down my introversion to the fine point of one-pointed consciousness, and while it chases away most people who will not also pursue one-pointedness, single-mindedness, or even have a point to their existence beyond sociobiological roles, I will continue on my path. I will not turn about 180 degrees like Jim Morrison or Jerry Garcia or countless others whose lack of social support in this matter fell away when the 60s ended. I still program myself psychologically (I bought some more Beatles, some Quicksilver Messenger Service and King Crimson today) to effect my emotional life in the face of social-temporal isolation (I too live provisionally in a 60s-70s psychic bubble, which helps support my spiritual work ["Sherman, set the Wayback Machine to 1967..."]), and our home is psychedelic. Visions are NOT meant to be abandoned. Transpersonal inklings are the gateway to Eternal Life and Light. Everyone else may acquiesce to mundane sociobiological existence, role playing, self-importance, and boasting about one's children and grandchildren, but I hope that there is something more important in Life for everyone who plays those roles - there is for me.



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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Offlinetrippindad82
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Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #6946184 - 05/21/07 08:33 AM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I saw many good things in this post here and wanted to throw in my own opinion, although it doesn't include everyone.

IMO and IME, many people do psychedelics when they are "young" and want to have "fun". Then, just like mj, when they suddenly "grow-up", they view those things that society has told them are bad as such. Most people, including myself during my first uses, don't understand that psychedelics can be a teaching tool. Thus, they can be scared by what goes on during their journey. There are many though, such as myself and others on this site, who learn the true powers of these natural substances.

What entertains me most about those who use "drugs" until they "grow up" is what they will continue to use throughout life. Not only will they continue to use it, but they will see no problems with getting trashed. IMO, alcohol is nothing more than a poison. It doesn't allow thought and IMO creates the mob scene that is sometimes associated with "drugs". When I felt that I "grew up" it was actually the alcohol that got cut from my use.

For myself, at this point in my life, I see a lifetime of use ahead of me. I have different kinds of trips and feel that these have helped to teach me a new balance in life that previously did not exist within myself. I also have seen through the fable called religion and have come to realize that god and religion have come to exist through our use of psychedelics. When I had my first OBE and "talked" to "god", I came out of going, HOLY SHIT, I can't believe what I just learned. As a result, I started trying to learn as much as I could and came to another ah-ha moment: Man's use of psychedelics most definitely aided in furthering our evolution. Why should I stop evolution just because some schmuck(s) wants to remain in absolute monetary power?


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Trying to explain a journey to someone who has never experienced it is like trying to explain what a zebra looks like to  blind person who has never seen a horse.

^^^The above matter may be a complete fantasy that I concocted out of possible boredom.^^^


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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: Age breeding disinterest in drugs [Re: trippindad82]
    #6947808 - 05/21/07 03:35 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Real adults go out and get trashed in shitty little depressing bars with the same dull and depressing people every week and then drive home drunk unconsciously wishing that it may be their last venture. Drugs are for immature college students, hippies and junkies, all of whom deserve no respect whatsoever.

Grow up, let the world cave in on top of you, then you'll fit it, hooray.


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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