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InvisibleUnderNose
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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: undergrounder]
    #7094361 - 06/26/07 11:06 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Undergrounder,
You'll have to de-fat with naphtha before you put the lye & naphtha in.


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Offlineundergrounder
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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: UnderNose]
    #7094417 - 06/26/07 11:23 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Cool thanks UN,

Could i just mix up the material in plain water and add the naptha?

Edit: Bah it looks like there's two of the same conversations over two different threads. Someone in the other one mentioned acid vs base doesn't matter unless you do a defat im guessing that means that you need to start by mashing it up in vinegar or something...

Again if anyone from Aus reads this thread later and have had success with acacias using this method then i'll be up to the shop flat out like a lizard drinking.


--------------------
:igor: RIP :igor:

Bigger and bolder and rougher and tougher in other words sucka there is no other...
:pinkshroom: :supershroom: :mushroom2: :shroomer: :mushroom2: :supershroom: :pinkshroom:


Edited by undergrounder (06/26/07 11:33 AM)


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InvisiblecoAsTal
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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: undergrounder]
    #7095211 - 06/26/07 02:56 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I say this with all due respect... but you guys are over-complicating some of this-- go to www.dmt-nexus.com and read.

Every single question you're asking has been asked and answered there, from what kind of solvents (various "napthas" are heavily mixed with other chemicals and will NOT work, either at all, or nearly as well--a rule of thumb is if you put some of it on a flat surface and there is ANY residue left after it evaporates off, DON'T USE IT, or you'll be adding those incinerated residues to your extractions and breathing those horrible chemicals with your spice) to lye concentrations (no, your 55% is absolutely NOT OK to use safely) If your naptha isn't separating it's due to a variety of possible reasons-- if your base solution (water+lye) isn't strong enough and your solvent isn't non-polar you will get an emulsion (mix) of both. Sometimes this can be fixed, sometimes not.

You have to pick the right ingredients at the start, and not just use whatever is available-- it's worth the research to find what you need.

The process is pretty simple, if you are using the "lazy Man's Tek" found on the nexus, for example, you start with shredded/powdered mimosa bark, add it to the appropriate lye-water mix, let it sit and soak for a bit, then add NON-POLAR solvent (heptane, VM&P Naptha, and possibly Odorless Mineral Spirits (again, depending on the manufacturer, it may or may not work)
You don't violently shake the solvent in the lye-water, you gently roll and turn it. Shaking makes the emulsion mix a LOT worse.
Once this is done, you siphon off the solvent, which has drawn the spice alkaloids from the lye-water, and either evaporate the solvent off or freeze out the crystal (or ideally, both)

That's it.

The whole process (for mimosa-- other plants do have to be de-fatted to remove the gunk that binds the spice to the plant matter and keeps it from absorbing into the solvent...)

Go to the nexus, and READ about the solvents there-- do a search for the words non-polar and see every answer you need. Ask questions if your problem hasn't already been addressed (which is very unlikely)

Be safe, and best of luck!


--------------------
I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination--  John Keats

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OfflineChazzersize
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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: coAsTal]
    #7098122 - 06/27/07 09:15 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

THANK you for all the generous help guys.

It turns out my problem was that I the ph STILL wasnt high enough after 300 grams of lye. I had to put in around 500 total...then seperate the mix into two smaller bowls and I worked from there.

I cant even begin to tell you all the things I saw and felt.

:hippie:

Im a believer.


PS Now that I got the to experience it first hand, the next batch will probably be the CFC method. Wish us luck :smile:

Again, thank you.


--------------------
Take off my mask and leave the lies to the liars.


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OfflineSaintDunsmere
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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: Chazzersize]
    #7098838 - 06/27/07 01:24 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Wow... I havent been on this forum for a while and last time I was, a dmt extraction took a month or so... Now this lazy mans tek is about the best news I've heard in a while.

Thank you to the guys who liked chemistry back in high school!

AFOAF will have to get this goin soon!

is nn dmt still worth the work, or should i just keep waitin around for my buddy to get 5meodmt eventually?


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InvisiblecoAsTal
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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: SaintDunsmere]
    #7098867 - 06/27/07 01:33 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

^^^

nn,DMT is spice, a different animal, and WORTH IT.

'nuff said.

:cheers:


--------------------
I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination--  John Keats

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OfflineMr E Guest
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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: Mr E Guest]
    #7098950 - 06/27/07 01:54 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Just as an update, got 2.5g of lovely crystals from 3rd+4th pulls combined. 3rd was still white but 4th was yellowish. Had been very busy and left it standing for a couple of weeks, possible that decomposition of something occurred. Maybe it's just the increasing ratio of other stuff to remaining spice though.

Note that at no point did I carry out any evaporation of HC solvent. I Kept all the residues and they have been setting down fine crystals while they stand in my freezer. Next I will evap them down a bit more and see how much more spice drops out. Total currently extracted from 500g MHRB is about 5.25g.

A funny thing is, there seems to be no logic as to how long it takes the MHRB/lye/HC emulsion to break down. Sometimes less than an hour, other times a week. I'll look out for some emulsion breaking techniques as this (besides my lifestyle:stoned:) is one of the main things that has slowed the process down.


--------------------
Be joyful. This could be the only chance you get.

All of the above posts are the fevered imaginings of a deluded mind, itself entirely the fictional creation of a somewhat peculiar author with a bizarre sense of humour.


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OfflineSaintDunsmere
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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: Mr E Guest]
    #7099004 - 06/27/07 02:04 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

wow... over 5 grams... good job!

How many MG's is a decent dose?
How many is a breakthrough dose?

what does 5meo have to offer that nn,dmt doesn't?


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OfflineMr E Guest
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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: Shroomo]
    #7099055 - 06/27/07 02:15 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

any uk members know where to get naptha?



Coleman camping stove fuel is available from all good camping stores (eg Black's) for about £5/500ml. And note that BLF (barbecue lighting fluid - NOT gel!!!) works but doesn't evaporate so easily. I think there might even be a more favourable temperature/solubility gradient for spice in the higher bp HC.

I was stunned by the crystals that dropped out from my first pull using BLF, even before freezing. Coleman fuel didn't seem to be quite so good (it works well enough - this is just me being picky), other than being easier remove from the crystals afterwards. But pressing between cartridge paper isn't so much trouble either, it just spoils the crystals. But that doesn't bother me as I don't have a digital camera to show them off with! Mind you, a single large crystal will keep longer than lots of little ones.


--------------------
Be joyful. This could be the only chance you get.

All of the above posts are the fevered imaginings of a deluded mind, itself entirely the fictional creation of a somewhat peculiar author with a bizarre sense of humour.


Edited by Mr E Guest (07/04/07 02:05 PM)


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OfflineMr E Guest
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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: SaintDunsmere]
    #7099150 - 06/27/07 02:41 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

wow... over 5 grams... good job!

How many MG's is a decent dose?
How many is a breakthrough dose?

what does 5meo have to offer that nn,dmt doesn't?




Mmm...the goddess, she speaks to me:heart:

Shulgin lists a dose of 60-100mg N,N-DMT (smoked) in Tihkal, although you may well get sufficiently interesting experiences with upwards of 15mg. There's no sense caning all your stash in a few goes and completely scaring the shit out of yourself:eek: when you can have 4-7 times the number of more manageable goes! Unless you happen to like that kind of thing.

And for what Tihkal has to say about 5-MeO-DMT click here


--------------------
Be joyful. This could be the only chance you get.

All of the above posts are the fevered imaginings of a deluded mind, itself entirely the fictional creation of a somewhat peculiar author with a bizarre sense of humour.


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InvisibleFeanor
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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: Mr E Guest]
    #7099465 - 06/27/07 03:58 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

50 mg gets me to where I need to go. Anything over that produces a ridiculously profound experience that's quite hard to decipher, due to the fact that you can't remember too much about it. Large doses of N,N-DMT produce trips that are hard to remember. I can get results from around 15 mg or so, but a small dose like this wont really allow me to breakthrough. Breakthroughs are almost completely different than small DMT trips.
Also, the way you hit it really plays a large part, I've found. A nice hard hit brought down deep into the lungs will pretty much destroy you and launch you off.
5meo...... now that's a totally different ballpark!! :yesnod:


--------------------

May Terence McKenna Live Long

The DMT Chronicles


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OfflineChazzersize
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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: Feanor]
    #7103073 - 06/28/07 11:23 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I had to double the amount of sodium hydroxide for my extraction due to the lack of separating.

My question is, it's been sitting for about 4 days. I have heard comments that dmt breaks down in the solution over time.

Now since I added so much lye, do you think I'll be fine if I extract it tomorrow?


--------------------
Take off my mask and leave the lies to the liars.


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InvisiblecoAsTal
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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: Chazzersize]
    #7103469 - 06/28/07 01:24 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Yes-- 4 days should be no problem- make sure you heat the mix to 120 F or so leading up to the extraction so the alkaloids will better transfer into the solvent, too- it can make a big difference in the amount you get out :smile:


--------------------
I am certain of nothing but the holiness of the Heart's affections and the truth of Imagination--  John Keats

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Offlineenesi
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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: coAsTal]
    #7104804 - 06/28/07 08:10 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I have a question about washing. In this tek i have (not sure what it's called) It says after you have your crystals, to wash with chilled ammonia (janitor strength non sudsy) I did this, and my crystals melted and turned dark. What happened?

here are pictures of my finished product prior to washing. I was stoked about getting these looking this nice, only to lose them all to a dark colored gunk.





Also a question about the cold freeze cycle, what's the best way to do that? To get the crystal shown above, i just removed my naptha layer after a 3hour seperation period, put it in a glass pan and stuck it in the freezer, by morning i had a pan full of crystals.


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: enesi]
    #7106973 - 06/29/07 12:03 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

don't throw away that gunk, redissolve it in fresh naphtha. i think you probably removed a bunch of crap from your elfspice but at the same time melted it - mebbe you warmed it up?

in my multiple steps at purification, i kept freezing and getting orangey crap come out of solution. by gentle warming followed by holding the sealed jar under hot running water to heat it up, i was able to remove a load of dark orange crap and repeat.

if you're not absolutely sure, you'll lose nothing by redissolving, heating, shaking and letting gravity collect the crap.


--------------------
buh


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InvisiblegeorgeM
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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: shirley knott]
    #7107018 - 06/29/07 12:22 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

:thumbup: I don't know how to add a thread to "my favorites" without first posting within it... so good job people
Would be fun to try this tek with Desmanthus illinoensis rootbark... if SWIM gets around to it I'll be sure to convince her to post results
:yesnod:


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Offlineenesi
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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: shirley knott]
    #7107456 - 06/29/07 02:19 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

shirley knott said:
don't throw away that gunk, redissolve it in fresh naphtha. i think you probably removed a bunch of crap from your elfspice but at the same time melted it - mebbe you warmed it up?

in my multiple steps at purification, i kept freezing and getting orangey crap come out of solution. by gentle warming followed by holding the sealed jar under hot running water to heat it up, i was able to remove a load of dark orange crap and repeat.

if you're not absolutely sure, you'll lose nothing by redissolving, heating, shaking and letting gravity collect the crap.




I let it dry out, but it was still ugly. I was reading on the dmt nexus forum about recrystallization, so i gave it a shot. I dissolved a gram into some naptha, let my glass container sit in a bowl of hot water until it all dissolved, poured off the clear solvent then i let it cool to room temp, Now i guess do a cool freeze cycle a few times and i'll be good. it looks much better now.


Here is the "brown sugar" i ended up with after ammonia wash.



And after dissolving in heated solvent, and then left to cool to room temp overnight, this is what i awoke to.




btw, this is kinda fun! lol.


--------------------


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: enesi]
    #7107546 - 06/29/07 02:45 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

I dissolved a gram into some naptha, let my glass container sit in a bowl of hot water until it all dissolved, poured off the clear solvent then i let it cool to room temp


well the DMT nexus sounds like it should know what's going on. same deal as i described, but cleaner and much easier method.

those crystals look way cool, try the 3h fridge/3h freezer/repeat method to see how big they can go. you tried smoking it yet? you won't be disappointed.



--------------------
buh


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Offlineenesi
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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: shirley knott]
    #7107896 - 06/29/07 03:59 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

I got them going in the cool freeze cycle now. Although i work 6-7 hours a day, so my timeframes are a bit longer.

and yea, it's some amazing stuff alright, lol. Like an entire mushroom peak packed into 5 minutes, lol.

I like listening to sphongle, tales of the inexpressible, track #3 (a new way to say hooray) The music just seems to set the pace for the trip, everything that happened was right in beat with the tunes. very cool.


--------------------


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InvisibleBlueDruid
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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: shirley knott]
    #7108176 - 06/29/07 05:15 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

shirley knott said:
hey buddy - last time i was in a big B&Q i discovered that they sell naphtha near the barbecue section in huge 4l white plastic tubs. FUCK! i wish i'd known that before.




I've been looking about for naphtha as I can only find artists white spirit in tiny bottles & I think I saw the one you mean in B&Q - "Bartoline Paraffin premium BS2869.C1 contains naphtha (petroleum) hydrotreated heavy UN1223 Kerosene"
I wasn't sure about it as it says kerosene & I don't know what the numbers relate to. Does anyone? It'd be useful to compare it with another one I found
"Bartoline premium low odour white spirit contains naphtha (petroleum) hydrotreated heavy UN no 1268 petroleum distillates"
I thought this one might be purer as it refers to petroleum distillates rather than kerosens but if the UN numbers refer to a data sheet or list of contents and percentages it could be easy to tell.


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