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OfflineMr E Guest
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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: Artnotwar]
    #6948109 - 05/21/07 05:02 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

You don't need MSHB in Australia! Various species of wattle tree contain dimethyltryptamine in appreciable quantities. Try putting "Acacia DMT Australia" into a search engine and see what comes up. And apparently, the roots of the common reed, Phragmites australis, also contain this substance (but just try digging them up...)


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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: myndreach] * 1
    #6949213 - 05/21/07 08:57 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe you're gonna have to go on some kind of hiking holiday. Try getting into botany (if you haven't already). That's the subject, rather than the bay!

There's stuff like this, for starters:
Acacia phlebophylla article (although this is unfortunately an endangered species)

and look at the genus Acacia in general.

Happy plant hunting!

PS - Has anyone out there tried playing with Phragmites australis roots?


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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: Mr E Guest]
    #6949269 - 05/21/07 09:06 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I'm going shopping as soon as they're open! I think there's a head shop round here that's got some MHRB. Although it's tempting just to knock together some Vinho de jurema and dispense with the chemicals entirely. Evaporating naphtha? :puke:


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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: coAsTal]
    #6976723 - 05/28/07 08:17 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Got my powdered MRHB last Thurs. MIxed 500g with 1L water then added 500mL water containing 200g dissolved lye. Made blue/black tarry sludge. Couldn't find any naphtha so added 400 mL barbecue lighting fluid (hydrotreated petroleum distillate). In retrospect this may be stupid as having a higher BP is not terribly convenient.

Whatever, it also was very reluctant to come out of emulsion. Tried adding silicone anti-foaming agent but this may also have been the wrong thing to do.:crazy: Will look for lower BP hydrocarbon, but not sure what to get in UK. Would diethyl ether be any use or does it pull too many fatty oils?

Small hydrocarbon layer has attained slight yellow colouration, left it for 3 days to see if more floats up. More updates to follow.


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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: coAsTal] * 1
    #7042030 - 06/13/07 01:30 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Got a gram and a half from first two pulls! BBQ lighting fluid works, just takes longer to evaporate off - had to put it somewhere warm, and I  pressed out the solvent residue between two bits of cartridge paper. Third pull has also laid down loads of crystal in the freezer, and I got a 4th pull in the airing cupboard waiting to separate.

Switched to Coleman camping stove fuel after first pull, it sometimes takes ages to separate out of emulsion - I almost prefer BBQ fluid but for the volatility.

My crystal was so pure, there was barely any detectable mothball odour, more a sweetish smell. Yummy! And it works, btw!:crazy2:


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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: Mr E Guest]
    #7098950 - 06/27/07 01:54 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Just as an update, got 2.5g of lovely crystals from 3rd+4th pulls combined. 3rd was still white but 4th was yellowish. Had been very busy and left it standing for a couple of weeks, possible that decomposition of something occurred. Maybe it's just the increasing ratio of other stuff to remaining spice though.

Note that at no point did I carry out any evaporation of HC solvent. I Kept all the residues and they have been setting down fine crystals while they stand in my freezer. Next I will evap them down a bit more and see how much more spice drops out. Total currently extracted from 500g MHRB is about 5.25g.

A funny thing is, there seems to be no logic as to how long it takes the MHRB/lye/HC emulsion to break down. Sometimes less than an hour, other times a week. I'll look out for some emulsion breaking techniques as this (besides my lifestyle:stoned:) is one of the main things that has slowed the process down.


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All of the above posts are the fevered imaginings of a deluded mind, itself entirely the fictional creation of a somewhat peculiar author with a bizarre sense of humour.


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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: Shroomo]
    #7099055 - 06/27/07 02:15 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

any uk members know where to get naptha?



Coleman camping stove fuel is available from all good camping stores (eg Black's) for about £5/500ml. And note that BLF (barbecue lighting fluid - NOT gel!!!) works but doesn't evaporate so easily. I think there might even be a more favourable temperature/solubility gradient for spice in the higher bp HC.

I was stunned by the crystals that dropped out from my first pull using BLF, even before freezing. Coleman fuel didn't seem to be quite so good (it works well enough - this is just me being picky), other than being easier remove from the crystals afterwards. But pressing between cartridge paper isn't so much trouble either, it just spoils the crystals. But that doesn't bother me as I don't have a digital camera to show them off with! Mind you, a single large crystal will keep longer than lots of little ones.


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All of the above posts are the fevered imaginings of a deluded mind, itself entirely the fictional creation of a somewhat peculiar author with a bizarre sense of humour.


Edited by Mr E Guest (07/04/07 02:05 PM)


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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: SaintDunsmere]
    #7099150 - 06/27/07 02:41 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

wow... over 5 grams... good job!

How many MG's is a decent dose?
How many is a breakthrough dose?

what does 5meo have to offer that nn,dmt doesn't?




Mmm...the goddess, she speaks to me:heart:

Shulgin lists a dose of 60-100mg N,N-DMT (smoked) in Tihkal, although you may well get sufficiently interesting experiences with upwards of 15mg. There's no sense caning all your stash in a few goes and completely scaring the shit out of yourself:eek: when you can have 4-7 times the number of more manageable goes! Unless you happen to like that kind of thing.

And for what Tihkal has to say about 5-MeO-DMT click here


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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: BlueDruid]
    #7128719 - 07/04/07 01:55 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


Quote:
shirley knott said:
hey buddy - last time i was in a big B&Q i discovered that they sell naphtha near the barbecue section in huge 4l white plastic tubs. FUCK! i wish i'd known that before.



I've been looking about for naphtha as I can only find artists white spirit in tiny bottles & I think I saw the one you mean in B&Q - "Bartoline Paraffin premium BS2869.C1 contains naphtha (petroleum) hydrotreated heavy UN1223 Kerosene"
I wasn't sure about it as it says kerosene & I don't know what the numbers relate to. Does anyone? It'd be useful to compare it with another one I found
"Bartoline premium low odour white spirit contains naphtha (petroleum) hydrotreated heavy UN no 1268 petroleum distillates"
I thought this one might be purer as it refers to petroleum distillates rather than kerosens but if the UN numbers refer to a data sheet or list of contents and percentages it could be easy to tell.
D4D0C8



The UN numbers are for identification purposes; they refer to the United Nation list of hazardous substances and are used to help the emergency services in case of spillages and other accidents, so don't worry about them. Kerosene is a more specific grade of petroleum distillate; also it's considered a synonym for paraffin. And naphtha is just another term for various grades of petroleum distillate, too. PM me for more information about UN numbers.

The BS number refers to a British Standard. Looking up that reference number will afford you a bit more detail about the likely composition of your white spirit.

The main thing, I think it was stated on complementary DMT extraction thread, is to check for greasy/waxy residue by allowing a drop or two to evaporate from some suitable non-porous surface. White spirit has a fairly high bp but so long as it's sufficiently pure not to leave a greasy residue it should be ok. Also, I have a feeling that higher bp hydrocarbons might do a better job of extracting than the more volatile stuff. Although I could be entirely wrong on this matter. As Mark Twain once said "I like science because it gives such a wholesome return of conjecture from a trifling investment of fact." (Thanks to Alexander Shulgin for that one.)


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Edited by Mr E Guest (07/04/07 01:59 PM)


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OfflineMr E Guest
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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: Mr E Guest]
    #7128843 - 07/04/07 02:31 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Here are the approximate boiling ranges of some relevant petroleum distillates.

Gasoline: boiling range 40-180oC, 6-10 carbon atoms

Naphtha: boiling range 180-260oC, 10-14 carbon atoms

Kerosine: boiling range 260-340oC, 14-20 carbon atoms

And adding more lye (solution) to raise the pH, and if you wish, a bit of table salt (fine crystals) - a technique I believe is known as 'salting out' - definitely helps break down those annoying emulsions! I added a couple of ~150ml portions of 33% NaOH solution to my mix, plus about a tablespoon of NaCl sprinkled in, and each time got back an equal volume of hydrocarbon from the emulsion.:grin:

Love the pics, btw, guys - well done!  :thumbup: :mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:
Shame I couldn't get any pics of mine.


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Edited by Mr E Guest (07/06/07 06:12 PM)


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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: Ogla]
    #7184158 - 07/16/07 04:59 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

The_Kman said:
Im currently having a go at my first ever DMT extraction using this method. Ill let everyone know how it goes. did have a half pound of MHRB, but have split that in half to give me two separate runs at it.

Ill see how it goes.




Hope you're seeing your first gram of beautiful elf spice already! And an update on the solvent front - I've just found that photographic film and foil degreasing fluid is apparently ideal as a naphtha substitute. Check the label says something like '100% volatile aliphatic hydrocarbons'. Obtainable from your local photographic supplies store, but it might be expensive. Fortunately, I found mine just lying around!

It's highly volatile, evaporating (readily!) without trace. Beware! This makes it highly flammable - more so than any of the other solvents I've found so far. Also, it's virtually odourless, even compared to Coleman fuel.


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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: BrainChemicals]
    #7772834 - 12/18/07 04:49 AM (16 years, 1 month ago)

You might want something to stir the mixture with...


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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: Sra_sephiroth0]
    #7926591 - 01/24/08 08:49 PM (16 years, 7 days ago)

Quote:

Sra_sephiroth0 said:

any one know if virola Bark needs a defatt? or is it just like mimosa





To find out if there are any fats in your virola bark, soak a small, preferably powdered, sample (~a teaspoonful) in some of your non-polar solvent, maybe 10ml, ie 2 teaspoons. Filter off the solvent into a clear glass dish and allow it to fully evaporate. Check for oily residue by wiping with a clean, blank piece of paper. (Of course, you have read here about checking your solvent is properly volatile and free from residue in the posts here, haven't you?)

If there is an oily residue then you need to do a defat which will be a similar procedure to the sample test. There of course would be no need to evaporate off to obtain the oily residue (unless you really want to???) Solvent recovery would be worth considering if you have some kind of SAFE distillation apparatus.

If there is no fatty residue - which seems fairly likely in my estimation - then just go ahead with the caustic bath. And remember to chuck in that teaspoonful of bark from the sample, it should contain a few micrograms of the spice.


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Edited by Mr E Guest (01/24/08 09:11 PM)


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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: tealeaf]
    #9767095 - 02/09/09 05:08 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

I've added lye by the tablespoonful to water from the hot tap and, though it makes a scary noise, it has never boiled over. This doesn't mean it won't! I stirred my NaOH so that it dissolved and dispersed quickly. This means the boiling point of the solution was raised, as well as the heat generated. It can get hot enough to noticeably soften plastic though!

ALWAYS USE APPROPRIATE SAFETY EQUIPMENT, PARTICULARLY EYE/FACE PROTECTION when using the abovementioned reckless procedure!

In case you were wondering, I was unblocking a waste pipe and needed the solution to be as hot as possible. However, I would not recommend the use of freshly boiled water for dissolving solid NaOH. Not that you were going to, but then you never know who ends up reading this, do you?


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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: tealeaf]
    #9772497 - 02/10/09 02:44 PM (14 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:


trying to get this procees down since this is my first time so bear with me.

1.grinded up bark
2.mixed lye into water into empty apple sauce jar (is this ok?)
3.add bark and let sit for about 1 hr
4.add naptha and roll jar (cap on of course)
5.wait an hr until everything is settled
6.transfer naptha layer to baking dish
7.wait till most has evaped to saturated amount (shiny)
8. cover and put in fridge for 30 mins
9.transfer to freezer

after that im having problems understanding what to do. hopefully someone is gracious and can help me through




10. Remove from freezer, observing crop of white crystals in bottom of jar (with any luck)
10a. If crystals are powdery/sludge, try swapping jar between fridge and freezer every couple of hours for a day or so.
11. If crystals are larger (a bit like medium coarse sea salt in appearance), carefully drain off naphtha. Save the naphtha for re-use!
12. Allow remnants of naptha to evaporate from crystals. Keep dust-free and below 35oC (94oF)
13. Optional wash with ammonia solution
13a. Allow to dry again
13b. Optional recrystallisation
14. Use crystals at your discretion

Note on step 10a: if your crystals don't get any bigger, it may be worth warming the jar gently in a bowl of warm water. This will redissolve the crystals. Then allow to cool more slowly, first in a cool room, then the fridge, then the freezer. Swap between fridge and freezer a couple more times if you can be bothered.


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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: Nature Boy]
    #10117979 - 04/06/09 04:47 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Nature Boy said:
Quote:

Entropymancer said:

There's no such thing as too high of a water:bark ratio. Using extra water isn't going to hurt anything.





Entropymancer:  This is the one premise upon which I vehemently disagree with you.  The amount of water is most certainly critical - and here is my rationale:

The amount of spice contained in the MHRB is, of course, limited.  The amount released into a small volume of basified solution will reach concentrations of, lets say 1% if you carefully match water volume to root bark mass.

If you had TWICE the optimal volume, the concentration of DMT would be HALF as great in the water, and by extension, in the naptha....and clearly harder to extract by freeze precipitation.  The concentration of spice in naptha can NEVER exceed that of the water!

So...the best approach would be to keep the water to a minimum (or optimum), which, IMHO is about 6cc's per gram of bark, NOT 15 cc's as is often quoted in the STB teks.

As the spice leaves the water, (with each successive naptha extraction) it again is free to leave the bark, reach its equilibrium concentration, and then migrate passively by diffusion once again into the naptha, even f the initial water volume was insufficient to allow for maximal migration of spice into water.

Comments and discussion on this hypothesis would be most welcomed.

N.B.



Equilibria work on the basis of concentration rather than absolute quantity. The comparative affinities of bark, water and naphtha for the spice will determine how much spice migrates into the aqueous phase and thence the naphtha; surely the spice will be diffusing out of the bark into the water to maintain equilibrium as it diffuses into the naphtha? Then the naphtha, if sufficiently warm, will quite readily attain a higher spice concentration than the water, its affinity for spice being greater than that of water. As well, there will be a certain amount of contact between the bark and the naphtha, leading to a more direct extraction, perhaps?

Granted, the solubility of spice in cold naphtha is fairly low. But when one looks at the extraction process as a whole rather than stepwise snapshots, I would suggest that while it may indeed suit you to use a lesser quantity of water, this may not be for the reasons you hypothesize. It's a matter of time and temperature.

More water would give more space for the spice to diffuse out of the bark, but requires a slightly greater extraction time. Less water results in a higher viscosity mix and greater chance of (annoying!) emulsions being formed. A temperature above the melting point of spice will aid its mobility between phases. I'd do some calculations at this point to explore this a bit more but unfortunately I really can't be bothered. Sorry!

Apologies also for slightly unclear thinking on this, it's bedtime where I am. Goodnight!


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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: SLiCeR]
    #14014253 - 02/23/11 03:00 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Screw naphtha its...

the *water only* tek!
  • Make hot mimosa tea using tap water.
  • Filter out all solids.
  • Add lye.
  • Put aside in a warm place for a couple of hours.
  • Transfer to fridge for 3 or 4 days.
  • Collect DMT freebase from surface of liquid.
  • Rinse with tepid water.
  • Purify using solvent of your choice. Or vacuum sublimation.

A picture of what should (or might) happen after adding the lye:

Credit: Dagger, of the Nexus

Sorry, no quantities, that'll have to be your homework!

Edit: water rinse added.


Edited by Mr E Guest (02/27/11 05:54 AM)


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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: That.X.Jester]
    #14014650 - 02/23/11 03:55 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Yes, salt is pretty good for breaking down emulsions. Another way is not to use solvent in the first place...! Apart from water, of course.


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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #14030966 - 02/26/11 03:26 PM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
[...]the *water only* tek![...]
Damn I gotta try this. How's the yield?



Reports suggest yield is a bit lower than naphtha-based teks and the whole method is possibly a little capricious. SWIM has plans to apply some refinements once they have the time. Then further details will be posted. Sorry to be so vague, but I think it's worth checking out if you prefer to avoid inhaling naphtha fumes.


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Re: DMT extraction...rootbark to smokeable in roughly 3-4 hours...no grinding, powdering, freezing, [Re: ReoSpeedwagon153]
    #14034521 - 02/27/11 05:52 AM (12 years, 10 months ago)

Wash it with tepid water after. (Relevant post edited accordingly.) I think naphtha contamination of your living environment is at least as much of an issue.


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