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InvisibleBoom
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Does Microsoft have a case here? (Open Source "patent" violations)
    #6916827 - 05/14/07 08:30 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

http://news.zdnet.com/2102-3513_22-6183662.html


Quote:

Microsoft agitates for open-source patent pacts



05 / 14 / 07


Following some frosty responses to Microsoft's controversial patent deal with Novell last year, the software maker has begun a more aggressive attempt to persuade open-source software companies to license its know-how.

In an interview with Fortune magazine published this week, Microsoft's top lawyer, Brad Smith, provided a stark tally of 235 Microsoft patents the company believes are violated by free and open-source software, though he stopped short of detailing any. Specifically, he alleged that the Linux kernel violates 42 Microsoft patents; its user interface and other design elements infringe 65; OpenOffice.org infringes 45; and other packages infringe another 83 Microsoft patents.

Microsoft could have several motives for rattling its patent saber: slowing down open-source rivals, raising fears of open-source legal risks among customers, and winning payment for technology the company believes it deserves from a group that's generally been unwilling to pony up.

But according to Horacio Gutierrez, vice president of intellectual property and licensing at Microsoft, the company's move is designed to bring parties to the negotiating table that currently aren't there. "There is nothing specific about open-source software that warrants an exception of the intellectual property laws that apply to everyone else," Gutierrez said. He called the purported patent infringements "not accidental."

Microsoft is a major player in the existing legal and business establishment for handling intellectual property, which includes assets such as patents, trademarks and copyrights. That framework gives considerable power to incumbent companies with large patent portfolios and sufficient resources to pursue more.

"It's a game in which those who have a lot of resources to throw around have a lot of advantage," said Tom Carey, a partner in the Boston-based intellectual property law firm Bromberg & Sunstein.

As an example of what it would like to see, Microsoft points primarily to the Novell patent deal struck in November, in which Microsoft is selling coupons that permit use of Novell's Suse Linux Enterprise Server along with the assurance that Microsoft won't assert its patents against customers. It's unclear how high open-source patent protection is on most companies' priority list, but Microsoft has made a big deal out of the fact that Linux protections are included in two patent-swap deals this year made with Samsung and Fuji Xerox.

Raising the prospect of open-source patent risks might not be likely to make Red Hat, the top Linux seller, overcome its current unwillingness to pay Microsoft for patent rights. But it could pressure Red Hat and others indirectly, either through jittery customers or through big-business partners such as IBM. That's Microsoft's hope.

"We don't think that customers will want to continue on without a solution to the problem," Gutierrez said. Microsoft also pointed to the fact that AIG, Credit Suisse, HSBC, Nationwide and Wal-Mart all have bought the Linux Suse Linux coupons from Microsoft.

But does open-source infringe?
The only problem with Microsoft's plan: so far its actions have only rallied the open-source troops, and not everyone believes the open-source gang egregiously violates the intellectual property regime.

"I don't think open-source is not playing by existing intellectual property rules," said Mark Radcliffe, an intellectual property attorney with DLA Piper. "Currently, open-source (participants) use copyright for everything they do. A lot of open-source companies have patents."

Radcliffe also derided Microsoft's reasoning that the purported open-source patent violations aren't accentual because the company thinks hundreds of cases exist. "It's an illusion or deceptive to say merely because there apparently are potentially a lot of patents infringed, it's intentional. That's certainly not the legal standard," he said. "I would also be willing to bet, given the number of patent suits against Microsoft that they've lost, under their own theory, Microsoft itself is intentionally infringing."

The fact remains, though, that patents and open-source software can be anathema. Patents give exclusive, proprietary rights to those who hold them, but open-source software is built on a philosophy of free technology sharing. Many in the open-source realm deride software patents and have been lobbying to curtail their influence.

When Novell and Microsoft announced their patent deal, the Free Software Foundation was quick to say it would move to prohibit such arrangements in a future version of the General Public License (GPL), the most widely used open-source license. The most recent draft seeks to prohibit all future deals of that nature and potentially past ones, too.

The timing of Microsoft's pronouncement is telling, Radcliffe said, "particularly when you think that GPL version 3 is still in draft. I don't think that is a coincidence," he said.





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OfflineAaronEvil
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Re: Does Microsoft have a case here? (Open Source "patent" violations) [Re: Boom]
    #6918664 - 05/15/07 04:28 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

That was definately an interesting read. I find it ironic that Microsoft (creator of Vista) is complaining about user interface when their new OS looks almost exactely like OSX for Mac. Fuckin hypocrites.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Does Microsoft have a case here? (Open Source "patent" violations) [Re: AaronEvil]
    #6918708 - 05/15/07 05:22 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

> I find it ironic that Microsoft (creator of Vista) is complaining about user interface when their new OS looks almost exactely like OSX for Mac.

Microsoft succesfully defended itself against Apple on this very issue in the mid 90's. The courts ruled that "look and feel" cannot be copyrighted.

The entire software patent system needs to be redone. It is broken, thus stupid claims can be patented...

I suspect the harder that Microsoft goes after opensource, the more difficult time they are going to have in court with anticompetitive claims being made against their monopoly. They are going to have an extremely difficult time in Europe where a lot of the opensource software is created.

Edit: I really wish opensource projects would remove their Microsoft ports from the code. I don't see why the opensource community continues to support software that runs on Windows when Windows is anti-opensource.


Edited by Seuss (05/15/07 05:24 AM)


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Invisibletak
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Re: Does Microsoft have a case here? (Open Source "patent" violations) [Re: Seuss]
    #6919423 - 05/15/07 11:22 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Because windows is the operating system of the masses. Just because you are stuck using windows, does not always mean you should be force fed bloated programs.

There are SOME legitimate uses for windows. Everywhere is diffrent, but where I work...I have no say in whether or not my computer runs windows. I cannot get my modeling software to work in linux. This doesnt mean I shouldn't be able to use some of the finer software these people have to offer.


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Invisibledaytripper05
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Re: Does Microsoft have a case here? (Open Source "patent" violations) [Re: Seuss]
    #6919569 - 05/15/07 12:00 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Edit: I really wish opensource projects would remove their Microsoft ports from the code.  I don't see why the opensource community continues to support software that runs on Windows when Windows is anti-opensource.




:thumbup:


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Does Microsoft have a case here? (Open Source "patent" violations) [Re: tak]
    #6919573 - 05/15/07 12:01 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

> This doesnt mean I shouldn't be able to use some of the finer software these people have to offer.

I think it does. If the finer software quit running on windows, then more people would run from windows, and more companies would write modeling software that works in non-windows environments.


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Offlinedelta9
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Re: Does Microsoft have a case here? (Open Source "patent" violations) [Re: Boom]
    #6920518 - 05/15/07 03:24 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

I'm not at all worried about it. Many lawyers use linux in their homes and businesses. Unless Microsoft code is being used, I don't really see what leg they have to stand on. Debian releases a reviewed (by legal minded folks) free-only operating system, for free - I doubt Microsoft will be able to shut them down. I, for one, will do what I can to ensure they can't (call your congressmen or whatever you have to do, but don't let Microsoft dictate software - they SUCK at it).


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OfflineYthanA
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Re: Does Microsoft have a case here? (Open Source "patent" violations) [Re: Seuss]
    #6920548 - 05/15/07 03:31 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Just another point of view... if it wasn't for the Windows ports of Azureus, Firefox, Thunderbird, FileZilla, Open Office et al. I probably wouldn't even have plans to switch to Linux. Changing OSes is a big deal and there are a lot of reasons people would stick with what "just works" (including me, hell I could probably do web development for 10 more years with my current XP setup). If it's possible to switch operating systems and keep the same group of core applications, that eliminates a big barrier to leaving Windows. And if Windows users are allowed to get a taste of Open software, it could make them curious about what else lies on the other side of the looking glass. Nothing has done more for my interest in Open Source than using Firefox as my primary browser. It was the first time I had real, hands on, extensive and in-depth experience with Open software on a daily basis, and it left me impressed and wanting more. For people with a long history in the Open Source community, I agree it may not seem to make a lot of sense. But speaking as a long-time Windows user, I appreciate the efforts to reach out across operating systems and ultimately I think it will be an effective strategy for bringing me over from the dark side.


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OfflineSymmetryGroup8
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Re: Does Microsoft have a case here? (Open Source "patent" violations) [Re: Ythan]
    #6921643 - 05/15/07 07:56 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

Someone, somewhere, specifically somewhere in Seattle, should share what ever the fuck he's smoking...

This is M.A.D man. I'm sure IBM can counter sue the hell out of M$, since IBM owns a bunch of patents too I think. That is IBM even cares, but they seem to support open source.

Make my [IBM's] day MS!


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OfflineDethKlok
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Re: Does Microsoft have a case here? (Open Source "patent" violations) [Re: SymmetryGroup8]
    #6922618 - 05/15/07 11:50 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

It doesn't matter if they have a case or not. They're expecting people to settle.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Does Microsoft have a case here? (Open Source "patent" violations) [Re: DethKlok]
    #6923362 - 05/16/07 03:57 AM (16 years, 8 months ago)

> It doesn't matter if they have a case or not. They're expecting people to settle.

Incorrect. The RIAA wants money, which is why they sue hoping for settlements. Microsoft wants to maintain it's monopoly, which is why they sue hoping to kill the competition through the courts.


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