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Invisiblepsilomonkey
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Scientology vs. the BBC
    #6910344 - 05/13/07 03:57 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_6650000/newsid_6651700/6651721.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm

Quote:



Row over Scientology video
By John Sweeney
BBC News



Scientologists want 'the global obliteration' of psychiatrists
The battleground is YouTube and Scientology's weapon is a clip of me losing it in the "Mind Control" section of a gruesome exhibition.
Scientology has fought many battles to keep its secrets off the web, now they are using it to attack my investigation into them.

Scientology has prepared an attack video, and they have shown the Scientology v Sweeney shouting match to anyone who would watch it.

There is talk of 100,000 copies being released.

Family 'disconnects'

Scientology works. That is the message from celebs like John Travolta and Tom Cruise - who is, some say, keen on recruiting new Hollywood arrivals David and Victoria Beckham to what he calls his religion.

Others back the Church in various ways: Chief Superintendent Kevin Hurley of the City of London police helped open a new £20 million Scientology centre in London, and the authorities in the City of London have granted it cut-price rates.

If you are interested in becoming a TV journalist, it is a fine example of how not to do it. I look like an exploding tomato and shout like a jet engine ... it makes me cringe


But start asking questions and you see a different face of Scientology.

While making our BBC Panorama film "Scientology and Me" I have been shouted at, spied on, had my hotel invaded at midnight, denounced as a "bigot" by star Scientologists, brain-washed - that is how it felt to me - in a mock up of a Nazi-style torture chamber and chased round the streets of Los Angeles by sinister strangers.

Back in Britain strangers have called on my neighbours, my mother-in-law's house and someone spied on my wedding and fled the moment he was challenged.

I have met mothers who say they have suffered Scientology "disconnects" - meaning that their children have cut them completely out of their life so that they can spend more time with an organisation which a judge in 1984 characterised as "corrupt, sinister and dangerous".

Psychiatry battle

Scientology has two faces - nice and smiley, and sinister and dark. If you do not believe me, go and see their exhibition in Los Angeles, Psychiatry: Industry of Death. You enter through a door that is a mock-up of a torture chamber.


John Sweeney spent many weeks investigating Scientology
Scientologists want "the global obliteration" of psychiatrists, who they say were to blame for the rise of Nazi Germany.

To prove their point, they showed me hideous images of people having needles stuffed in their eyeballs, of patients undergoing electric shocks and having their brains operated on.

Sickening, nasty and wholly unconvincing - modern psychiatry, for all its faults, is not Nazi and to press the point in the way that Scientology does devalues the horror of the Holocaust.

I felt as though I was being brain-washed - and that if I did not fight it, they would have taken over my mind.

Ironically or not, it was in the "Mind Control" section of the exhibition that I lost it.

'Exploding tomato'

As often in life, I snapped over something completely different and quite trivial.

Top Scientologist Tommy "Don't mention the word cult" Davis had been goading me all week, and on the seventh day I fell into his elephant trap. He shouted at me and I shouted back, louder.


L Ron Hubbard wrote the founding texts of Scientology

If you are interested in becoming a TV journalist, it is a fine example of how not to do it. I look like an exploding tomato and shout like a jet engine and every time I see it makes me cringe.

I apologised almost immediately, Tommy carried on as if nothing had happened but meanwhile Scientology had rushed off copies of me losing it to my boss, my boss's boss and my boss's boss's boss, the Director-General of the BBC.

I lost my voice, but not my mind.

This is the context Scientology will not tell you about. I have met too many good people who say Scientology was founded by a liar, L Ron Hubbard; that it attacks its critics without mercy; and the celebrities who endorse it have not the foggiest idea what it is really like.

Take "Rosemary", who is an ordinary mum and lives in England. She had two children and one died. Her surviving daughter was also her best friend. Then her daughter joined Scientology and her mother saw less and less of her.

Almost two years ago she received a "disconnect" - a letter cutting her mother out of her life totally.

Rosemary received no Christmas cards, no birthday cards, no Mother's Day cards.

Rosemary said Scientology was a cult. It was one of the most moving and shocking interviews I have ever done.

Out of the blue, three hours after we left, her daughter came round for the first time in almost two years seeking a reconciliation. The next day she begged her mum not to use the interview. So we won't.

Pay as you go

In Florida I met Mike Henderson, who with his wife Donna Shannon, spent $1m over three decades on Scientology's path to superhuman powers. When the couple left, they were disconnected from 20-odd family members left inside Scientology.

Mike's father - also disconnected - is dying, but five out of his six children will not speak to him because they are still inside Scientology.

After a long day with Mike and Donna we went back to our hotel at midnight, only to find Tommy Davis waiting in the lobby with his own black-clad Scientology cameraman.

He harangued me for talking to the heretics. I told him that Scientology had been spying on the BBC and that was creepy.

In LA, the moment our hire car left the airport we realised we were being followed by two cars.

In our hotel a weird stranger spent every breakfast listening to us. In all, we count 13 strangers - private investigators? - who were following us. Scientology denied sending PIs after the BBC.

Scientology is a pay-as-you-go religion - which is one of the reasons why the Charity Commission in Britain does not class it as a religion.

When you have paid as much as £100,000, you get to Operating Thetan Level Three and learn about "The Incident".

L Ron wrote that 75 million years ago an intergalactic space alien lord called Xenu kidnapped Thetans to earth, dumped them in volcanoes and blew them up with atomic bombs.

Ex-Scientologists have insisted to me that Xenu is part of Scientology. If so, it is a religion that requires its followers not to tell others about its core belief, which is very odd.

Critics say that if we all knew about Xenu, then Scientology could not charge people as much as £100,000 to find out about him.

Despite all the pressure - the letters from lawyers, the letters from MPs, the strangers knocking up my family and neighbours - if people from "disconnected" families tell me that Scientology is a cult, that will be reported.






I wonder who is going to have to more blood on their face in this little scrap. But more to the point, I think that this will be interesting. The BBC 'journalistic integrity' vs. Scientology's place as a 'religion''

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Scientology vs. the BBC [Re: psilomonkey]
    #6910388 - 05/13/07 04:15 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I really don't understand your point. The BBC has very little journalistic integrity and Scientology is a particularly bizarre religion. What's to argue?


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Scientology vs. the BBC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6910401 - 05/13/07 04:22 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

The BBC has very little journalistic integrity




Care to back up that assertion?

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Scientology vs. the BBC [Re: Redstorm]
    #6910448 - 05/13/07 04:39 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Redstorm said:
Quote:

The BBC has very little journalistic integrity




Care to back up that assertion?




For starters:
http://nationofshopkeepers.wordpress.com/2007/03/27/what%E2%80%99s-sauce-for-the-goose-doesn%E2%80%99t-apply-to-us-%E2%80%98cos-we%E2%80%99re-the-beeb/
"The Times is reporting that the BBC is continuing it’s legal action to prevent the release of the Balen Report, an internal BBC document on its Middle East coverage. The BBC has often been accused of bias in it’s reporting, of Middle East events in partucular."


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Scientology vs. the BBC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6910493 - 05/13/07 04:58 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

You, I, or the author of that blog entry know what is contained in that report, regardless of the fancy vocabulary and style he employs. While it is hypocritical to refuse the release of that article since they are a public entity, that is more of a legal or organizational lack of integrity than one of journalism.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Scientology vs. the BBC [Re: Redstorm]
    #6910522 - 05/13/07 05:05 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

They are a government agency. They are also, allegedly, a journalistic entity which is supposed to be covering government doings. They are squelching a government report on their own activities. There is so much delicious irony here that no bread knife can cut it, you need a ginsu sword.

At any rate, I think that backs up my assertion, regardless of the actual content of the report.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Scientology vs. the BBC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6911629 - 05/13/07 09:41 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Really, who has any journalistic integrity anymore?

I'm sure every news agency has done in the past something that would cause you to look askance at that companies reporting.

But if you decide to ignore a report from every newspaper that has done something questionable in the past, your going to end up getting all your information from looking out your kitchen window.

I'd like to think most of us have the intelligence to look at the information presented by an agency and see the facts behind it.

Whether you and the BBC share the same warped views on any particular world event is hardly relevant to their reporting of the fucked-upedness of Scientology.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Scientology vs. the BBC [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #6911641 - 05/13/07 09:43 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Really, who has any journalistic integrity anymore?



Anymore? I suspect that it is has never truly existed, and is a historical fiction.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Scientology vs. the BBC [Re: Silversoul]
    #6911664 - 05/13/07 09:51 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Probably a fair assesment of the situation.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus

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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Scientology vs. the BBC [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #6912241 - 05/14/07 12:12 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

that is an Op Ed piece. It isnt in anyway an investigative report.

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Scientology vs. the BBC [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #6913166 - 05/14/07 08:59 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

psilocyberin said:
that is an Op Ed piece. It isnt in anyway an investigative report.




What is? That link I gave to, what is it, shopkeeper something? Yeah I know that but it was the first pop on Google about this report, the Balen report. The facts presented in the article are accurate. There is an internal BBC report about bias at the BBC which the BBC, a government agency, is fighting the release of. All truth.

Anyway, my original post was that they both suck so fuck 'em.


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InvisibleArp
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Re: Scientology vs. the BBC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6913317 - 05/14/07 09:37 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

http://www.xenutv.com/originals/4th.htm

shrug. what a scary bunch :eek:

Edited by Arp (05/14/07 10:21 AM)

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Offlinemultivitamins
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Re: Scientology vs. the BBC [Re: Arp]
    #6913583 - 05/14/07 10:47 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I'm from the UK and in my opinion they are relatively unbiased. In one of the above posts someone described them as a 'goverment agency' - this is not the case (at least in the normal sence of the term 'goverment agency'). They are funded by the tax-payer but are independant of the goverment i.e. the goverment can't fire the head of the BBC because he does something they don't like. As far as their news reporting goes it seems quite un-biased expecially compaired to other major news companies (CNN, ITN, FOX etc..) and most of the British papers. They have been critical of the war in Iraq and certainly are not towing the goverments line. They have been in massive legal battles with the goverment over the whole David Kelly fiasco. I am not saying they are perfect but I'd say my overall opinion of them is quite positive.


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"She was able, prompt, strict and intelligent. She welcomed responsibility and kept her head in every crisis. She was an adult and self-reliant, and there was nothing she needed from anyone. Yossarian took pity and decided to help her"- Catch 22

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Scientology vs. the BBC [Re: multivitamins]
    #6914126 - 05/14/07 12:44 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

> They are funded by the tax-payer but are independant of the goverment

Who determines how much tax funding they get? He who signs the check, controls. If the people decide the funding, then the government probably does not have much influence. If the government determines the funding, then they are ultimately a tool of the government.


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Scientology vs. the BBC [Re: Seuss]
    #6914176 - 05/14/07 01:00 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Until 2007, the Corporation was run by a board of governors appointed by The Queen or King on the advice of the government for a term of four years, but on 1 January, 2007 the Board of Governors was replaced with the BBC Trust.




Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC#Corporation


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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.

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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: Scientology vs. the BBC [Re: zappaisgod]
    #6921151 - 05/15/07 05:48 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Quote:

psilocyberin said:
that is an Op Ed piece. It isnt in anyway an investigative report.




What is? That link I gave to, what is it, shopkeeper something? Yeah I know that but it was the first pop on Google about this report, the Balen report. The facts presented in the article are accurate. There is an internal BBC report about bias at the BBC which the BBC, a government agency, is fighting the release of. All truth.

Anyway, my original post was that they both suck so fuck 'em.




I was talking about the primary article that was quoted. It has some facts like "L. Ron Hubbard founded Scientology", some lies and mainly consists of personal opinions and speculation born from paranoia.

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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Scientology vs. the BBC [Re: psilomonkey]
    #6921399 - 05/15/07 06:46 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

psychiatrists were behind 9-11.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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