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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleIcelander
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Sorcery, the journey of return.
    #6920284 - 05/15/07 02:38 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

According to Carlos Castaneda's Don Juan anyway, there was a time according to him that humans possessed silent knowledge. Knowing without thinking. (Intuitive knowing) He called it seeing. When mankind began his self reflection he kicked himself out of Eden so to speak. Self obsession and self importance began to rule our being and our way of relating to our world and everything. The path of Sorcery then is a way of returning to silent knowledge by dethroning self-importance as our primary way of relating to our experience. Once obsessive thinking about ourselves is reduced or stopped for a time then we again experience silent awareness and are guided by a clear channel of intuition. Don Juan called it moving the assemblage point. The assemblage point is sort of a point of focus inside our awareness. When it moves we can experience things in very different ways then we could were it glued to another spot.

"When self-importance is curtailed, the energy it requires is no longer expended. That increased energy then serves as the springboard that launches the assemblage point, automatically and without premeditation, into an inconceivable journey."

Could this be what all of us that claim a spiritual quest are really longing for?

"Once the assemblage point has moved, the movement itself entails moving from self-reflection, and this, in turn, assures a clear connecting link with the spirit. After all, it was self-reflection that had disconnected man from the spirit in the first place."

Now here's something interesting and maybe disturbing for some of us.

"Our difficulty with this simple progression is that most of us are unwilling to accept that we need so little to get on with. We are geared to expect instruction, teaching, guides, masters. And when we are told that we need no one, we don't believe it. We become nervous, then distrustful, and finally angry and disappointed. If we need help, it is not in methods, but in emphasis If someone makes us aware that we need to curtail or self-importance, that help is real.
  Sorcerers say we should need no one to convince us that the world in infinitely more complex than our wildest fantasies. So, why are we dependent? Why do we crave someone to guide us when we can do it ourselves? Big question, eh?"


So who moves the assemblage point? According to Don Juan, the spirit does it. According to DJ there are no techniques in sorcery at all. The only thing that matters is moving the assemblage point to a place of silent knowledge and we can't do it because the spirit does it. It does it when we have enough free energy to call the spirit to us or create a clear channel between ourselves and the spirit. Self -importance is where all of our energy gets tied up and so we have none to call the spirit. The spirit or intent responds to energy according to DJ. So all our petty bullshit, self pity, self-importance, indulging, at every turn etc. all during our daily lives keeps us trapped exactly where we are no matter how spiritual we want to be or claim to be. It's right at the grass roots so to speak that the problem is solved. It's illusive because it's too obvious for us to see it. Our self-importance blinds us. Our complete focus on ourselves keeps us from seeing anything else even though it's right there.


OK now, for the record I'm not saying any of this is true or false. But it's worth contemplating don't you think? Especially in light of all the chasing spirituality and enlightenment that seems to go on throughout the ages, with so little results. (This last part IS my opinion);)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: Sorcery, the journey of return. [Re: Icelander]
    #6920369 - 05/15/07 02:59 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

you don't hear of those who have found 'results' because they have no need to contemplate or share the details of such an occurrence.

"...After all, it was self-reflection that had disconnected man from the spirit in the first place."
interesting..


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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Offlinesuave
Stranger
Registered: 04/23/07
Posts: 289
Last seen: 16 years, 3 months
Re: Sorcery, the journey of return. [Re: Icelander]
    #6920422 - 05/15/07 03:08 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I like to think of the the self reflection as the internal voice or internal dialogue that man has become accustomed to inside. Shut it down and you become your true self. You become one with "god" and flow along with the winds instead of against them in the ways that your ego would have you do.

In the garden of eden, lucifer looked upon a body of water and saw his reflection and fell in love with his beauty. This passage demonstrates the metaphor well. The illusory self that we create inside of us commonly but not properly understood as the ego, causes the torment of our lives through the thoughts that we vibrate out of us to the god channels of the universe around us. The universe takes that signal and sends more of it to you.

Big reason why you should keep your thinking always positive.

"Once the assemblage point has moved, the movement itself entails moving from self-reflection, and this, in turn, assures a clear connecting link with the spirit. After all, it was self-reflection that had disconnected man from the spirit in the first place."

This is another way of demonstrating what i was saying in the thread i started. You shut down your self-reflection aka your ego aka the inner turmoil of constantly judging and thinking, and your channel becomes "clear". The infinite field of possibilities demonstrates itself.


:thumbup:

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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
Re: Sorcery, the journey of return. [Re: Icelander]
    #6920437 - 05/15/07 03:11 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I am about to do you a great disservice and tell you what i think of your post:

I loved it. Concise, unpretentious, displaying your usual depth of contemplation and humanistic (un)common sense. :thumbup:

Sorry.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
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Re: Sorcery, the journey of return. [Re: Icelander]
    #6920459 - 05/15/07 03:13 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

But it's worth contemplating don't you think?




As soon as I meet someone that can actually do it.


--------------------

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Invisiblepsyka
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Re: Sorcery, the journey of return. [Re: Icelander]
    #6920466 - 05/15/07 03:15 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Those are pretty profound excerpts. I have nothing to say, they speak for themselves.

We wander around aimlessly, finding our selves in everything we see and wonder where truth is. It is within and without.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.


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Offlinesuave
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Re: Sorcery, the journey of return. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #6920480 - 05/15/07 03:17 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

But it's worth contemplating don't you think?




As soon as I meet someone that can actually do it.





you doubt you do, so i doubt you ever will.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Sorcery, the journey of return. [Re: suave]
    #6920612 - 05/15/07 03:47 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

All right, you two, get a room, in the other thread. :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Sorcery, the journey of return. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6920630 - 05/15/07 03:52 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
All right, you two, get a room, in the other thread. :smirk:




And since we're talking about getting rooms... :naughty:

:strokebeard:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Sorcery, the journey of return. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6920633 - 05/15/07 03:53 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

All right, gentlemen, excuse me for a few weeks... :smirk:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: Sorcery, the journey of return. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6920947 - 05/15/07 04:58 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

saw that coming, funny I was gonna tell you two to get a room in a thread a few days back..

I was laying in bed thinking of this self-reflection separation from spirit thing..

Assume you were split from your spirit as a result of your self-reflection. How do you become one with it again? It is said that if you just 'drop everything' and 'go with the flow' 'it will happen'. I think that is only a method one uses to accommodate oneself. A person has to reach a certain point before they are able to achieve what Icelander was talking about in the OP, and I think self-reflection is a step along the way. A necessary step. At least in todays society where we are seemingly born without spirit and must find it.


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

Edited by elbisivni (05/15/07 05:04 PM)

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Sorcery, the journey of return. [Re: elbisivni]
    #6920964 - 05/15/07 05:02 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Veritas beat you to it. :tongue:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
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Re: Sorcery, the journey of return. [Re: fireworks_god]
    #6920977 - 05/15/07 05:05 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

:loveeyes:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: Sorcery, the journey of return. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #6920998 - 05/15/07 05:08 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

their should be a limit put on your usage of :loveeyes: and :strokebeard:


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
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Re: Sorcery, the journey of return. [Re: elbisivni]
    #6921009 - 05/15/07 05:11 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

elbisivni said:
their should be a limit put on your usage of :loveeyes: and :strokebeard:




Ohh but there are so many other emoticons out there that can be used :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Sorcery, the journey of return. [Re: elbisivni]
    #6921017 - 05/15/07 05:12 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

At least the Moderator sould make some attempt to keep my thread on topic. :rofl2:

I really don't have great expectations though.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Sorcery, the journey of return. [Re: Icelander]
    #6921387 - 05/15/07 06:43 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

As you know, I tend more towards psychology than spirituality, per se, and so I dislike the overly-ornate terminology used to describe what seem to be fundamental cognitive shifts.

If we are constantly reacting to events in our lives as though they are emergencies, of course we will have little attention for the quiet messages from our intuition and/or non-emergency emotional states.  The process of shifting our cognition away from reactionary habits does not require sorcery, but rather calm rationality. 

Just as those who criticize the ego, and advise "losing" our necessary personality structure, miss the point of the potential helpful nature of the ego, I believe that Carlos Castenada was missing the great potential of the rational mind.  It is not necessary for our cognition to be self-obsessed, and we do not need to revert to some idyllic, pre-Homo Sapiens Sapiens brain structure in order to maximize our experience of living.

However much we may wish to return to "the garden," where we could live without worrying, be in the moment, and be guided purely by intuition, the fact is that we have moved on, and for good reason!

The trouble is that we confuse our abilities (coulds) with mandates (shoulds) or inevitabilities (wills), and get stuck in cognitive ruts.  Because we can visualize the past, imagine the future, we believe that we should do so at all times, or even that we cannot avoid doing so at all times. :tongue:  Silly monkeys.

The new brain will be in the driver's seat, whether we dream of steering with the old brain or not.  The question is, will that driver be clutching the wheel, overcome by Road Rage, drinking coffee and eating a sandwich while talking on the cell phone, or will that driver be calmly cruising through everyday life?

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Sorcery, the journey of return. [Re: Veritas]
    #6921588 - 05/15/07 07:40 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I feel that if one focuses only on the material/rational aspects of thought that one limits the self to utilizing only a small percentage of their creative potential. This is merely the view of my current preference so what is correct for me may not be exactly true for others.

I have one question though. How can you question the validity of ideas and techniques that...while they may not be your choice....undeniably work for others? I have had tremendous success with techniques and ideas that could be ascribed to shamanism or sorcery. So why would you assume that these ideas are ineffective or inferior to your "rational" methods. As you may be aware our minds are as diverse as the other aspects of our selves and our cognitive processes cannot be generalized very effectively. My first major in college was psychology, and I completed a wide array of coursework in that field. What it taught me more than anything was that modern psychologists have not even begun to fathom the depths of the human mind due largely to the individual natures that we posses. I feel that Castaneda's works borrowed from and displayed practical knowledge of wisdom traditions that had many more years of practical experience behind them than the techniques of modern psychology.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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InvisibleAlephOne
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Re: Sorcery, the journey of return. [Re: Icelander]
    #6921609 - 05/15/07 07:47 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

I'm sure it's relevant to the discussion to point out that Castaneda was a fraud, and Don Juan didn't really exist.

It isn't ad hominem if it isn't a person. :eyebrow:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Sorcery, the journey of return. [Re: Icelander]
    #6921650 - 05/15/07 07:58 PM (16 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
At least the Moderator sould make some attempt to keep my thread on topic. :rofl2:

I really don't have great expectations though.




Please, its no different than any of the excursions you and Veritas have been involved in. :shrug:

If you really want it, I will remove the entirety of the short aside. I've considered doing it before. The next time you Veritas and huehue have a friendly aside I'll be sure to dump it as well. I've never seen anything like this disrupt the on-topic discussion but if you want a strict, unflowing discussion with no sense of community spirit or fun then so be it. :shrug: Its your decision.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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